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Old
12-21-2013, 07:46 PM
  #101
Rocket Richard
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Originally Posted by PoutineSp00nZ View Post
THere are going to be down years, and stretches of them. The Sens overachieved the past two years and are back to reality, they're still building and they'll get there again. They have a lot of assets, good young players and vets that can bring a good return if they need to be traded.
7 year itch under Murray!

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12-21-2013, 08:04 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Rocket Richard View Post
7 year itch under Murray!
a 7 year stretch where they missed the playoffs once. There is a team not that far away from ottawa that missed the playoffs entirely for longer then that.

If that 7 years is ottawa's down stretch it's pretty good all things considered. Only 8 teams a year make it out of the first round, that means 22 teams don't every single season.

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12-21-2013, 08:14 PM
  #103
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Mods: May I please ask how this thread is allowed, let alone going 5 pages strong?

In the last couple weeks, there was already an 8 page thread discussing the attendance, fan interest and the disappointment about the team in the city this season. Basically every point was made, every argument was heard and I thought people really got things off their chest there.

The attendance was almost 17,000 today so it's slowly getting better. Monday should be sold out.

I'm seriously curious, it just seems like this topic is starting to be entering "beating a dead horse" status.

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12-21-2013, 08:26 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
Mods: May I please ask how this thread is allowed, let alone going 5 pages strong?

In the last couple weeks, there was already an 8 page thread discussing the attendance, fan interest and the disappointment about the team in the city this season. Basically every point was made, every argument was heard and I thought people really got things off their chest there.

The attendance was almost 17,000 today so it's slowly getting better. Monday should be sold out.

I'm seriously curious, it just seems like this topic is starting to be entering "beating a dead horse" status.

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12-21-2013, 08:30 PM
  #105
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Can you really deny what I am saying?? It's accurate and you know it.

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12-21-2013, 08:42 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
Mods: May I please ask how this thread is allowed, let alone going 5 pages strong?

In the last couple weeks, there was already an 8 page thread discussing the attendance, fan interest and the disappointment about the team in the city this season. Basically every point was made, every argument was heard and I thought people really got things off their chest there.

The attendance was almost 17,000 today so it's slowly getting better. Monday should be sold out.

I'm seriously curious, it just seems like this topic is starting to be entering "beating a dead horse" status.
It's allowed because no one is breaking any rules, and people want to discuss it (hence: "5 pages strong").

If we closed every thread that had "repetitive information", HFSens would be like 5 threads, total:
- Whine about the arena
- "Around the NHL"
- whine about the players
- Celebrate the players
- GDT's.

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12-22-2013, 09:03 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by PoutineSp00nZ View Post
Only 8 teams a year make it out of the first round, that means 22 teams don't every single season.
Remind me again how many times Ottawa has made it past the first round in the last 7 years under Murray's tenure as a GM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
Mods: May I please ask how this thread is allowed, let alone going 5 pages strong?

The attendance was almost 17,000 today so it's slowly getting better. Monday should be sold out.
I was at that game yesterday, and man could I see lots of sections empty. Not just seat, sections.

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12-22-2013, 09:44 AM
  #108
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Rocket, BMurr has a free pass. He's "local" since he's from Shawville and the non-blogger media are simpletons (outside James Gordon I guess) who laugh at his jokes are too dull-minded to ask pointed questions.

He's also done a fairly good job of replenishing our propsect system, and has given us Karlsson, who is one of the more dynamic players around. That said, I've always maintained that Murray isn't a finisher. He's too loyal and too sentimental to make hard decisions about vets (trading Fisher and kelly, he said he almost cried or something. They're 3rd liners for crying out loud, just move them out already) so we will need someone from the outside at some point to evaluate where the team is going, what it needs and so on.

That said...attendance! If enough people get tired of the product there will be change.

Aaand there are rumours out there that Melnyk has asked Murray to cut payroll so we're basically going to give Anaheim a lottery pick it looks like.


SensChirp‏@SensChirp 9:39 AM - 21 Dec 13
Rumours out there suggesting that Melnyk has actually asked Murray to cut payroll. Again, BMurr has the hardest job in pro sports. #Sens

SensChirp (From Senschirp site)
•a day ago

Rumours out there that Melnyk has asked Murray to trim approximately $2 million in payroll.


SLIDING SENS
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/w...than-the-east/
Everything seems to be heading in the wrong direction for the Ottawa Senators, a team struggling to climb back into the Eastern Conference playoff race and one that captain Jason Spezza referred to as “fragile” after a third loss in four games on Thursday night. Here is one more sign of the tough times: 17,375.

That is the average attendance at Canadian Tire Centre through 20 home games this season — a number that has dropped by 2,000 from the lockout-shortened 2013 campaign. While the Sens attribute the decline to fewer promotional giveaways, team president Cyril Leeder acknowledged during a recent conversation that the organization is currently facing some challenges.

One of the biggest issues is a December schedule that features a team-record 11 games at home. The Sens have seen below-average crowds for the last five of those: Dec. 9 vs. Philadelphia (15,786), Dec. 12 vs. Buffalo (15,578), Dec. 14 vs. Los Angeles (17,140), Monday vs. St. Louis (16,008) and Thursday vs. Florida (15,927). Overall, Leeder estimated that the glut of December games left the team with 80,000 tickets to sell over and above its season-ticket base. That is a tough ask.

The Senators are currently operating about $8-million below the $64.3-million salary cap — giving them one of the NHL’s cheapest payrolls — and there have been some whispers in the industry that Sens GM Bryan Murray might have to cut salary before the end of the season if the losing continues. “I don’t see any scenario where (that will happen),” says Leeder. “I’ve been here for all 23 years and our payroll has gone up every year. When you retool you’re going to dip a little bit, but we’re where we thought we’d be — we’ve got to have a payroll that’s consistent with the age of our players as well.We need to have room to grow to keep those guys over time.”

One excuse he won’t accept for the poor performance at the box office is the poor performance on the ice. The Sens are just 7-10-3 at home and will need a big turnaround to get back to the playoffs for a third straight season. “Our job is to fill the building up whether the team goes 82-0 or 0-82,” said Leeder. “You’re never happy when there’s an empty seat.” An empty seat is not something you’re likely to find in any other Canadian arena. Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg, Vancouver and Calgary are all at capacity or above it this season while Edmonton has filled 99.8 per cent of its seats so far.

The rumoured salary cut is around $2,000,000 if you look around Twitter or so.

So yeah, new owner please. Melnyk goes and those pissed at Melnyk for various reasons (Alfie gone, casino fiasco, whatever) likely come back, might get a few hundred more in the seats.

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Old
12-22-2013, 10:05 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Richard View Post
Remind me again how many times Ottawa has made it past the first round in the last 7 years under Murray's tenure as a GM?



I was at that game yesterday, and man could I see lots of sections empty. Not just seat, sections.
The point is just making it into the playoffs is an achievement that just under half of the teams in the league don't muster in a season.

The Sens will get there again, it is still possible they get there this year. And with all the young talent they're going to get better as time goes on. People need to relax, lower their expectations and enjoy it for what it is.

Accept the things one can not change, enjoy the ride.

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Old
12-22-2013, 10:49 AM
  #110
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Murray inherited a team that was in decline. It is simple to say "get younger", but we did not have much down on the farm at the point that Murray took over. In the time it took to stock up any sort of options down in Bingo the dinosaur-like team was tanking in the standings, and the "3 year re-build" began. How much of what happened in the first few years under Murray is his fault is open to debate, but I think he did a reasonable job based on what he was given.

Since the re-build started we have had teams that have been younger, and cheaper, every season. Young and cheap can be good if you have the right group of vets leading them. In the off season we lost Alfie and probably more significantly Gonchar, and the team looks like it has no rudder at the moment. We are basically like the Oilers right now, with young forwards who have not learned what it takes to win night in and night out, and a porous D. I blame Edmonton management for their woes because they refuse to trade away any of their "superstars" who have never played in a playoff game in order to make the team better.

In an ideal world, Murray would swing a trade to plug gaping holes in our lineup. It could be done without adding more than 2-3 MM to our payroll, because they types of players who would help most are effective shut down D and bottom 6 forwards who could replace the dead wood in the current lineup. However, Murray cannot make these moves because we are above the budget and need to actually shave payroll.

So is this current situation Murray's fault? Everyone will have their opinion, but it will always be somewhat rooted in speculation about what Murray would do if he had even a middle cap budget this season. I think he could add some pieces that would turn this team around quickly. Others will believe Murray would just gas the trades and the team would be no better off. We'll never know for sure because Melnyk wont open his wallet and invest in the team to try to give them a push toward a playoff spot. A playoff spot that is still well within reach, by the way, based on how crappy the entire conference is this season.

While Murray is directly responsible for the product on the ice, I would venture to say that the budget stuff has hurt the brand more than team performance. When the brand suffers, the bottom line suffers.

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12-22-2013, 11:46 AM
  #111
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While attendance figures might be suffering, it's definitely easy to take advantage of. I've just been buying $10-15 dollar tickets off of stubhub and broker4tickets for the high 300's and moving up to the mid to lower 300's since there are often complete rows empty.

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Old
12-22-2013, 12:31 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by SenatorsHockey View Post
While attendance figures might be suffering, it's definitely easy to take advantage of. I've just been buying $10-15 dollar tickets off of stubhub and broker4tickets for the high 300's and moving up to the mid to lower 300's since there are often complete rows empty.
Helps the TV coverage too to not show empty seats at a game.

Everybody should move down and fill the 1rt and 2nd bowls….

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Old
12-23-2013, 12:47 PM
  #113
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Rocket, BMurr has a free pass. He's "local" since he's from Shawville and the non-blogger media are simpletons (outside James Gordon I guess) who laugh at his jokes are too dull-minded to ask pointed questions.

He's also done a fairly good job of replenishing our propsect system, and has given us Karlsson, who is one of the more dynamic players around. That said, I've always maintained that Murray isn't a finisher. He's too loyal and too sentimental to make hard decisions about vets (trading Fisher and kelly, he said he almost cried or something. They're 3rd liners for crying out loud, just move them out already) so we will need someone from the outside at some point to evaluate where the team is going, what it needs and so on.

That said...attendance! If enough people get tired of the product there will be change.

Aaand there are rumours out there that Melnyk has asked Murray to cut payroll so we're basically going to give Anaheim a lottery pick it looks like.


SensChirp‏@SensChirp 9:39 AM - 21 Dec 13
Rumours out there suggesting that Melnyk has actually asked Murray to cut payroll. Again, BMurr has the hardest job in pro sports. #Sens

SensChirp (From Senschirp site)
•a day ago

Rumours out there that Melnyk has asked Murray to trim approximately $2 million in payroll.


SLIDING SENS
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/w...than-the-east/
Everything seems to be heading in the wrong direction for the Ottawa Senators, a team struggling to climb back into the Eastern Conference playoff race and one that captain Jason Spezza referred to as “fragile” after a third loss in four games on Thursday night. Here is one more sign of the tough times: 17,375.

That is the average attendance at Canadian Tire Centre through 20 home games this season — a number that has dropped by 2,000 from the lockout-shortened 2013 campaign. While the Sens attribute the decline to fewer promotional giveaways, team president Cyril Leeder acknowledged during a recent conversation that the organization is currently facing some challenges.

One of the biggest issues is a December schedule that features a team-record 11 games at home. The Sens have seen below-average crowds for the last five of those: Dec. 9 vs. Philadelphia (15,786), Dec. 12 vs. Buffalo (15,578), Dec. 14 vs. Los Angeles (17,140), Monday vs. St. Louis (16,008) and Thursday vs. Florida (15,927). Overall, Leeder estimated that the glut of December games left the team with 80,000 tickets to sell over and above its season-ticket base. That is a tough ask.

The Senators are currently operating about $8-million below the $64.3-million salary cap — giving them one of the NHL’s cheapest payrolls — and there have been some whispers in the industry that Sens GM Bryan Murray might have to cut salary before the end of the season if the losing continues. “I don’t see any scenario where (that will happen),” says Leeder. “I’ve been here for all 23 years and our payroll has gone up every year. When you retool you’re going to dip a little bit, but we’re where we thought we’d be — we’ve got to have a payroll that’s consistent with the age of our players as well.We need to have room to grow to keep those guys over time.”

One excuse he won’t accept for the poor performance at the box office is the poor performance on the ice. The Sens are just 7-10-3 at home and will need a big turnaround to get back to the playoffs for a third straight season. “Our job is to fill the building up whether the team goes 82-0 or 0-82,” said Leeder. “You’re never happy when there’s an empty seat.” An empty seat is not something you’re likely to find in any other Canadian arena. Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg, Vancouver and Calgary are all at capacity or above it this season while Edmonton has filled 99.8 per cent of its seats so far.

The rumoured salary cut is around $2,000,000 if you look around Twitter or so.

So yeah, new owner please. Melnyk goes and those pissed at Melnyk for various reasons (Alfie gone, casino fiasco, whatever) likely come back, might get a few hundred more in the seats.
So Melnyk sells the team for the value as described, what, 300+ million, what do you think the new owner is going to charge for tickets when he just shelled out all that cash?

Be careful what you wish for.

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12-23-2013, 12:49 PM
  #114
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So Melnyk sells the team for the value as described, what, 300+ million, what do you think the new owner is going to charge for tickets when he just shelled out all that cash?

Be careful what you wish for.
Cant get much worse than Melnyk.

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12-23-2013, 12:55 PM
  #115
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Cant get much worse than Melnyk.
Pretty much.

Melnyk logic: One of the cheapest payrolls in the league -> translates to losses in the ice. Losing too much money due to losing team on the ice -> cut more budget -> makes team even worse.

That's the way to run a hockey franchise.

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12-23-2013, 01:03 PM
  #116
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Who wants to watch a loser? Two to the three hours is alot of time to invest into a garbage product especially if you don't get anything out of it.
You have 1,927 posts, you certainly like to post about a loser. You invested how many hours here?

I don't get the people who post here saying what they are saying. If you are posting on a hockey fan forum of your favourite hockey team and then say this kind of stuff, which an alarming amount do here , it just reeks of how cheap people are here but many just wont' admit to it.

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12-23-2013, 01:06 PM
  #117
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It's pretty sad. Bad team or not pretty much every other Canadian franchise continues to sell our their arena. That Ottawa's fanbase is not as dedicated is kind of sad.

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12-23-2013, 01:11 PM
  #118
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Pretty much.

Melnyk logic: One of the cheapest payrolls in the league -> translates to losses in the ice. Losing too much money due to losing team on the ice -> cut more budget -> makes team even worse.

That's the way to run a hockey franchise.
Or he can spend to the limit, win games and still have 15,927 fans in the stands.

Don't you get it. If you build a winner, the people will not come. All of those "sellouts" over the years were full of freebies when you and the whole lot were under the impression that we have great fans

We don't.

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01-01-2014, 08:11 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by DrunkUncleDenis View Post
Pretty much.

Melnyk logic: One of the cheapest payrolls in the league -> translates to losses in the ice. Losing too much money due to losing team on the ice -> cut more budget -> makes team even worse.

That's the way to run a hockey franchise.
Just like VIA Rail


Anyways, though, this has always been a point of argument on HF. What do you do when your team sucks? Many people say "boycott the team". But that's a calculated risk. There's a chance it will make the team better, but there's also the chance that the team will pack up and leave.

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01-01-2014, 08:30 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Fun Fact: there are lots of great Sens fans, there just aren't a lot of us.

City of ~1,000,000 people
- Probably 20% are Habs fans (holdovers from "pre-Sens" days + only a 2 hour drive away + East End Francophone population + Gatineau)
- Probably 15% (at least) are Leafs fans (holdovers from "pre-Sens" days + only a 4 hour drive away + the fact that Leafs fans are stubborn and pass on their allegiances to their kids)

So right off the bat, you've eliminated anywhere from 30-40% of your population from supporting your team. Then you have the fair-weather fans, that's probably another ~15-25% of your fanbase. And then you have to consider that as a Federal Public Servant town, a maybe-not-so-small-and-significant chunk of our population come from other parts of the country, and they bring their allegiances with them. And then, of course, not everyone in Canada loves hockey, so that's another chunk gone.


Honestly, we have the smallest fanbase in Canada, and that's including Winnipeg, IMO. We're sandwiched between the two largest hockey fanbase/markets in the world. A lot of people keep saying "wait until the new generation of Sens fans are old enough to buy tickets", but at the rate that Leafs and Habs fans are passing their allegiances on to their kids, and the fact that both teams are easily within driving distance, I'm not super-confident that we'll ever be anything other than Canada's 7th team. Maybe 6th, if the market really cools down in Winnipeg over the next 10 or so years.
I definitely agree with this, but I bet a Stanley cup would fix a lot of it.

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01-02-2014, 02:31 AM
  #121
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Can't believe no one has mentioned the location of the arena, which is great for people living in the west end and just awful for everyone else. Imagine living in Orleans, spending 30 minutes in traffic to get out of the parking lot, and another 30 minutes driving home...
Imagine doing that every day after work... only tack on another 15-30mins for rush hour + idiot impatient drivers causing accidents + poor transit system. That is what happens when you live in such a spread out city like Calgary, where the engineers who decided to design the roads had their heads up their *****. It is also a Canadian problem... our transit systems suck, we have so much space that we spread our cities out and then there is the weather. Going to a flames game is pretty much the same as going to a Senators game and the arena is just outside downtown.

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01-02-2014, 02:33 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Rocket Richard View Post
Remind me again how many times Ottawa has made it past the first round in the last 7 years under Murray's tenure as a GM?



I was at that game yesterday, and man could I see lots of sections empty. Not just seat, sections.
Remind me again how many times they made it past the first round before Murray's tenure?

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01-02-2014, 02:39 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by DylanSensFan View Post
Imagine doing that every day after work... only tack on another 15-30mins for rush hour + idiot impatient drivers causing accidents + poor transit system. That is what happens when you live in such a spread out city like Calgary, where the engineers who decided to design the roads had their heads up their *****. It is also a Canadian problem... our transit systems suck, we have so much space that we spread our cities out and then there is the weather. Going to a flames game is pretty much the same as going to a Senators game and the arena is just outside downtown.
At least your Arena isn't infested with mice like Rexall....

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01-02-2014, 06:45 AM
  #124
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At least your Arena isn't infested with mice like Rexall....
I'd say he should be glad he has a workable arena at all. It's a freakin' miracle those crazy Albertans managed to get the Saddledome up and running by the start of the season.

After seeing those flood videos and pics, I never thought they'd be able to pull it off. Amazing work.

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01-02-2014, 06:56 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
Or he can spend to the limit, win games and still have 15,927 fans in the stands.

Don't you get it. If you build a winner, the people will not come. All of those "sellouts" over the years were full of freebies when you and the whole lot were under the impression that we have great fans

We don't.
Lol wut. You're saying that winning doesnt bring fans? We have one of the biggest bandwagon cities in the league. Not something to be proud of, but winning will bring more fans. I don't see how you can flat out tell me it doesn't.

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