HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Why is LeClair underrated?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-22-2013, 11:30 AM
  #51
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 24,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Paeplow View Post
LeClair earned the privilege of playing LW on Lindros line.
Uh, no he didn't. Unless, of course, you think he "earned" it with 1 goal in his first 9 games of the season with the Habs, or his 0 points and -1 against Florida in his first game as a Flyer before getting set up by Lindros for his first goal as a Flyer in his second. Philly obviously acquired him after looking at their LW depth of Podein, Dionne, Dimaio, and Antoski, and not surprisingly Leclair found himself inserted above them in the lineup pretty much since day 1. Those guys, collectively, managed 20 points in almost 150 man games that year, so it wouldn't exactly have been to hard to rise in that depth chart with even nominal production - especially if some kind of chemistry was also noticed.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2013, 02:15 PM
  #52
MS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 13,905
vCash: 500
It's interesting.

Guys like Steve Shutt and Bill Barber have been gifted HHOF spots for being decent wingers who got to ride shotgun with a superstar. But those guys won Cups.

Leclair's regular season career absolutely massacres those of Shutt and Barber - not sure if people realize that Leclair at one point had the most goals of any player in the league over a 5-year span - but gets treated in a very different fashion.

If the 1997 Finals go differently, I suspect Leclair is in the HHOF. But that said, he was a key player on the 1993 Montreal team.

It's a weird one. I wouldn't have any problem if he was inducted (and would have him miles ahead of a few guys that get more discussion) but I don't think there's a hope in hell that he ever will be.

MS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2013, 05:01 PM
  #53
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,788
vCash: 500
^ Do you think Shutt and Barber deserve to be enshrined?

kmad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2013, 05:05 PM
  #54
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 41,896
vCash: 500
LeClair is also hurt by the fact that perhaps his most shining moment - the 1996 World Cup - is a tournament that most Canadians and therefore most NHL analysts would rather forget

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2013, 06:02 PM
  #55
quoipourquoi
Moderator
Goaltender
 
quoipourquoi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hockeytown, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 3,994
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyjoh View Post
As allready mentioned, Lindros carried the team and it might seem like his success was a product of playing with him. But that's not all I think. During two of LeClair finest seasons (96-97, 97-98) Lindros was injured a lot and it was LeClair who carried the team. It would be interesting to see what his numbers was like without Lindros those two years.
Lindros out until November 26th, 1996
LeClair: 23 GP, 13 G, 22 PTS (0.57, 0.96)
Remainder of Season: 59 GP, 37 G, 75 PTS (0.63, 1.27)

Lindros out from early-March to early-April in 1998
LeClair: 18 GP, 11 G, 15 PTS (0.61, 0.83)
Remainder of Season: 64 GP, 40 G, 72 PTS (0.63, 1.13)

quoipourquoi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2013, 11:25 PM
  #56
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 33,670
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wKetch22 View Post
Kuntiz benefiting from a young superstar? Andy McDonald is a superstar? Teemu Selanne young?
Kunitz has only really broken out the past two seasons as anything resembling a front line threat. In Anaheim he was a 25 goal scorer in a good year. Don't know what you're trying to get at.

Stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-25-2013, 09:55 AM
  #57
ChiTownPhilly
Registered User
 
ChiTownPhilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S Jersey near Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 312
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ChiTownPhilly
Speaking subjectively, the John LeClair skill that I always admired most was strength-on-skates. Didn't have the famous apparent low-center-of-gravity like Forsberg- but just really sturdy pegs that held to the point that you about needed to commit a penalty against him to get him away from a spot he lined up.

If not for his misspent (by others on a misguided coaching staff, not himself) youth in Montreal, and if he'd been on a line where others were as infrequently injured as he, we're probably not even having this conversation. However, legacies aren't built on "ifs," as much as I appreciate the guy as a player.

Now seems like as good a time for me to bring up The Curious Case of the Flyer Wingers- with the "hockey-card" stats listed consecutively:

Bill Barber:
903 Games, 420 Goals, 463 Assists 883 Points, +316
In Hall of Fame

John LeClair:
967 Games, 406 Goals, 413 Assists, 819 Points, +204
occasionally mentioned as borderline hall-of-fame candidate

Brian Propp:
1016 Games, 425 Goals, 579 Assists, 1004 Points, +310
(will never get a whiff of the hall of fame)

Just a little added perspective on the "underrated" issue...

ChiTownPhilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-25-2013, 10:10 AM
  #58
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 8,797
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownPhilly View Post
Speaking subjectively, the John LeClair skill that I always admired most was strength-on-skates. Didn't have the famous apparent low-center-of-gravity like Forsberg- but just really sturdy pegs that held to the point that you about needed to commit a penalty against him to get him away from a spot he lined up.

If not for his misspent (by others on a misguided coaching staff, not himself) youth in Montreal, and if he'd been on a line where others were as infrequently injured as he, we're probably not even having this conversation. However, legacies aren't built on "ifs," as much as I appreciate the guy as a player.

Now seems like as good a time for me to bring up The Curious Case of the Flyer Wingers- with the "hockey-card" stats listed consecutively:

Bill Barber:
903 Games, 420 Goals, 463 Assists 883 Points, +316
In Hall of Fame

John LeClair:
967 Games, 406 Goals, 413 Assists, 819 Points, +204
occasionally mentioned as borderline hall-of-fame candidate

Brian Propp:
1016 Games, 425 Goals, 579 Assists, 1004 Points, +310
(will never get a whiff of the hall of fame)

Just a little added perspective on the "underrated" issue...
Barber being the first great diver in the game probably got him into the Hall.

Dennis Bonvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-25-2013, 10:54 AM
  #59
Sens Rule
Registered User
 
Sens Rule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Barber being the first great diver in the game probably got him into the Hall.
Bobby Clarke and Bernie Parent got Fred Shero got Barber in.

Guy Lafleur and Ken Dryden and Scotty Bowman got Shutt in.

Often injured Eric Lindros and ???? Likely don't get Leclair in. At least Roy helped him get a Cup in Montreal.

If you are on a LEGENDARY team you are more likely gonna get in the HHOF. If you are Kariya or Leclair you face an uphill battle. Even though both were on amazing lines with Lindros and Selanne.

Sens Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-25-2013, 12:32 PM
  #60
begbeee
Registered User
 
begbeee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 4,031
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownPhilly View Post

Bill Barber:
903 Games, 420 Goals, 463 Assists 883 Points, +316
In Hall of Fame

John LeClair:
967 Games, 406 Goals, 413 Assists, 819 Points, +204
occasionally mentioned as borderline hall-of-fame candidate

Brian Propp:
1016 Games, 425 Goals, 579 Assists, 1004 Points, +310
(will never get a whiff of the hall of fame)

Just a little added perspective on the "underrated" issue...
I just put a little perspective on your added perspective with adjusted numbers...
LeClair 967 447-446-893
Propp 1016 343-473-816
Barber 903 351-394-745

begbeee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-25-2013, 01:05 PM
  #61
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,054
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Why would most take Tkachuk over LeClair? They played at the same time and LeClair was clearly better.

I also don't see how Suter and Housley are ahead of him
Tkachuk has better longevity. He at least showed up post lockout. He wasn't a star anymore but at least had a couple of 58 point seasons. Leclair was pretty much done by 2000. His back injury hurt him after this. But Tkachuk still had pretty good seasons after that until 2004. Leclair didn't. Throw in the career numbers and Tkachuk is clearly better and more likely to be in the HHOF, although I wouldn't.

Suter and Housley also have good longevity. They weren't here and gone after 5 years. They put in more time than that, despite their faults.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
It's interesting.

Guys like Steve Shutt and Bill Barber have been gifted HHOF spots for being decent wingers who got to ride shotgun with a superstar. But those guys won Cups.

Leclair's regular season career absolutely massacres those of Shutt and Barber - not sure if people realize that Leclair at one point had the most goals of any player in the league over a 5-year span - but gets treated in a very different fashion.
Just for fun.........
Goals leaders from 1975-'80

Lafleur - 274
Dionne - 241
Shutt - 238

Pretty good company.

Goals leaders from 1994-'00
Jagr - 261
Leclair - 260
Selanne - 245

So there are comparisons there. Shutt did lead the NHL in goals once. Leclair came awfully close of course.

Barber is a unique case because of his ties to a dynasty, a big season that puts him over the top (1976), his two-way play, his playoff record and his "good enough" time as being elite. Not to mention being a big part of 4 trips to the final. He slides in there, barely.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2014, 10:17 PM
  #62
BROOKLYnKNIGHTS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
Given recent threads about american players, LeClair is rarely cracking TOP 10, altough his accomplishments are often bigger than his country-mates, i.e. Roenick.

He has the numbers, he was though, had a great prime being arguably the best in his position, more or less carrying the team on his shoulders, played a lot of playoff hockey, very good international record...

Points: 4,5,9,9
Goals: 3,3,5,5,7,10

I don't want this thread to be ruined by talking about his HOF chance, I want to learn why he is not even mentioned among TOP 10 american players or forwards.
Leclair was not better than Roenick.

BROOKLYnKNIGHTS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-04-2014, 11:03 PM
  #63
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 24,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
Leclair was not better than Roenick.
<-- Will not argue, that's for sure.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.