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Old
12-20-2013, 02:37 PM
  #1
Skew06
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Berglund

We all know Berglund has been doing absolutely nothing this season compared to years past. He cant hit the net, he cant catch/make a pass, and seems like hes moving with a piano on his back when he skates. I know this is a long shot and will probably never happen, but what are the odds that someone like Cracknell or Porter will take his spot? Granted, hes a center, but we have plenty of ways to shuffle our lineup to where that wouldnt matter. Porter has always looked good in my eyes and actually looks like he wants to play, (unlike Berglund). Cracknell is another big body who has a heavy shot that can actually hit the net and generate momentum like we saw in the playoffs.

Just stirring up the pot to see what everyone thinks. To me he is dead weight on the team. Maybe some time off would help him? Who knows.

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12-20-2013, 02:44 PM
  #2
bleedblue1223
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If he loses his spot it would be either through a trade or like this:

Steen-Backes-Oshie
Schwartz-Sobotka-Tarasenko
Morrow-Roy-Stewart

I really can't see Roy going to the 4th line again when everyone gets healthy, the only decision is if Hitch likes the above better or Roy-Berglund-Stewart.

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12-20-2013, 02:48 PM
  #3
Skew06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
If he loses his spot it would be either through a trade or like this:

Steen-Backes-Oshie
Schwartz-Sobotka-Tarasenko
Morrow-Roy-Stewart

I really can't see Roy going to the 4th line again when everyone gets healthy, the only decision is if Hitch likes the above better or Roy-Berglund-Stewart.
No need to move Roy down. Keep your above lineup, and add a 4th line of

Cracknell or Porter/Lapierre/Reaves

Since Reaves is supposed to be back in early Jan.

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12-20-2013, 02:49 PM
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Skew06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skew06 View Post
No need to move Roy down. Keep your above lineup, and add a 4th line of

Cracknell or Porter/Lapierre/Reaves

Since Reaves is supposed to be back in early Jan.

All of that actually looks like a really incredible and unstoppable lineup now that i think about it.

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12-20-2013, 02:57 PM
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Bluesman91
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The only reason Berglund is still on this team is because he has a big body and he plays center. I like Berglund and really wish he could succeed but to me he's just too slow and has no offensive instincts. He has a nice wrister but he can never put himself in prime scoring position and even when he is, his accuracy is awful and always shoots wide.

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12-20-2013, 02:58 PM
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HooliganX2
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Berglund is not dead weight our team plays better with him in the lineup than when he missed games.

Just because he is not producing points like all of us would like does not mean he's wasting space in the lineup.

Stewart's scoring move to whipping boy plan B. Why not just be happy out team is winning.

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12-20-2013, 03:13 PM
  #7
Skew06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Berglund is not dead weight our team plays better with him in the lineup than when he missed games.

Just because he is not producing points like all of us would like does not mean he's wasting space in the lineup.

Stewart's scoring move to whipping boy plan B. Why not just be happy out team is winning.
Tell me what he's doing on the ice then to validate his spot in our lineup? Trust me, I'm all ears.

Hes slow, he doesnt hit anyone, he cant hit the net, he cant pass, he cant catch passes, he cant shoot. If theres a reason for him to be on our team then please justify why that reason is more important than the laundry list of things that he does wrong.

And a true hockey coach/team is never happy simply because their team is winning. We get absolutely ***** by the Kings, Ducks, and Sharks. Those are the teams we will be playing in the playoffs. So we do need to improve our lineup to be as best as possible.

I want nothing more than for him to turn into "The Big Swede" again. Its just not happening. Put in someone who can contribute by doing more than just taking up ice and go through the motions.

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12-20-2013, 03:15 PM
  #8
Skew06
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Oh yeah, hes good at faceoffs too right... (not including the ones that hes kicked out of ALL THE TIME)

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12-20-2013, 03:21 PM
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oh my, this again.

two questions:

-are there really people out there who still think Berglund is a legit #2 center and should produce like one?

-are there really people that don't see he is a damn good #3 center and cup contenders need good guys on the third and even fourth line?

yes he is not a core guy, could and maybe should play a little better but that does not mean he is dead weight in any which way.


Last edited by frostyflo: 12-20-2013 at 03:27 PM.
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Old
12-20-2013, 03:21 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Berglund is not dead weight our team plays better with him in the lineup than when he missed games.

Just because he is not producing points like all of us would like does not mean he's wasting space in the lineup.

Stewart's scoring move to whipping boy plan B. Why not just be happy out team is winning.
Bingo. The Blues would have been in terrible shape without Berglund and Stewart's goals last year. The guys who weren't producing last year are producing now and Berglund and, until recently, Stewart, swapped with them. It happens.

If you read other team's game day threads, it's not rare to see fans complimentary of Berglund despite his lack of scoring. Montreal fans, for example, noticed how many problems he caused them in puck battles. I think I saw someone else wonder where they could get a player like that. Obviously Berglund is not shooting nearly as well as he is capable (I suspect that shoulder injury is something persistent), but he's still playing solid hockey.
If the Blues can move him for a clear upgrade based on his recent body of work, not just 30 games this season, that's fine. The same goes for other players. Otherwise, let him continue to play good defense and generate a ton of turnovers, and let's see if he can get back to scoring when the playoffs arrive.

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12-20-2013, 03:26 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skew06 View Post
Tell me what he's doing on the ice then to validate his spot in our lineup? Trust me, I'm all ears.

Hes slow, he doesnt hit anyone, he cant hit the net, he cant pass, he cant catch passes, he cant shoot. If theres a reason for him to be on our team then please justify why that reason is more important than the laundry list of things that he does wrong.

And a true hockey coach/team is never happy simply because their team is winning. We get absolutely ***** by the Kings, Ducks, and Sharks. Those are the teams we will be playing in the playoffs. So we do need to improve our lineup to be as best as possible.

I want nothing more than for him to turn into "The Big Swede" again. Its just not happening. Put in someone who can contribute by doing more than just taking up ice and go through the motions.
just yesterday he blocked a shot and started the rush which led to a goal, per example.

to say he can't shoot or pass is plain bs, you just can't expect Stammer shots and Crosby passes from a guy with his talent level.

and he's pretty good defensively, something third-liners should be.

and I would change his spot for an upgrade any day a week, just to be clear, but he is not bad in playing hockey.

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12-20-2013, 03:32 PM
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Bluesman91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Berglund is not dead weight our team plays better with him in the lineup than when he missed games.

Just because he is not producing points like all of us would like does not mean he's wasting space in the lineup.

Stewart's scoring move to whipping boy plan B. Why not just be happy out team is winning.
Well duh every team is going to play better while healthy. He's only missed 3 games. 1 was the WSH game where we outshot the hell out of them, the second game was against Buffalo , and the 3rd was against Boston at Boston and we won.

While Berglund is not necessarily wasting space, he's not doing anything to make this a better team other than having his size there for intimidation factor this year. I love Bergy but he isn't doing anything someone that plays in the bottom 6 on our team couldn't do. He looks better without the puck on his stick.

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12-20-2013, 03:39 PM
  #13
HooliganX2
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Speaking of Berglund not hitting he does have 49 hits for the season. While not a great number it is more hits than Oshie, Steen, Jackman, and Morrow. He's number 3 on the team for takeaways with 24 with only 5 giveaways.

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12-20-2013, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skew06 View Post
Tell me what he's doing on the ice then to validate his spot in our lineup? Trust me, I'm all ears.

Hes slow, he doesnt hit anyone, he cant hit the net, he cant pass, he cant catch passes, he cant shoot. If theres a reason for him to be on our team then please justify why that reason is more important than the laundry list of things that he does wrong.

And a true hockey coach/team is never happy simply because their team is winning. We get absolutely ***** by the Kings, Ducks, and Sharks. Those are the teams we will be playing in the playoffs. So we do need to improve our lineup to be as best as possible.

I want nothing more than for him to turn into "The Big Swede" again. Its just not happening. Put in someone who can contribute by doing more than just taking up ice and go through the motions.
He can definitely pass. Paajarvi converted one a few games back, but he has a lot of solid passes that have not been converted by Tarasenko, Stewart, and others. He can also maintain possession of the puck and move it with a man on him. Hitch even said the blues missed him (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...975a33ed2.html)

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12-20-2013, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
Well duh every team is going to play better while healthy. He's only missed 3 games. 1 was the WSH game where we outshot the hell out of them, the second game was against Buffalo , and the 3rd was against Boston at Boston and we won.

While Berglund is not necessarily wasting space, he's not doing anything to make this a better team other than having his size there for intimidation factor this year. I love Bergy but he isn't doing anything someone that plays in the bottom 6 on our team couldn't do. He looks better without the puck on his stick.
Having 24 takeways and only 5 giveaways is contributing to the team.....The team leaders in takeaways are Steen and Schwartz with 28 while Schwartz has 8 Giveaways, Steen only have 5 giveaways.

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12-20-2013, 03:42 PM
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So much I disagree with in the OP. You completely ignore Berglund's role in relieving some of Backes' match-ups and allowing the team to successfully shut down top lines when on the road (and they can't control the match-ups with Backes' line getting that job).

He's big. He is very tough on the puck. He plays very good defense against top level talent.

His playmaking is mediocre. He has shown he can score in this league (and in international play) but is having a subpar year. Last year David Backes was in that category, but he got a lot more patience and grace from the fans.

This is not likely to be a thread that leads to any realistic appraisal of Berglund's role on the team. He is available for trade, but only if a better forward is coming back. But just subtracting him is stupid for the team. Did you not watch how they looked when he was out? I'll give you a clue, that was exactly the same time the team started to struggle.

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12-20-2013, 03:43 PM
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My main argument is that he does average things that anyone can do. Hell, I can go throw pads on and block a shot. Any NHL player can go through the same exact motions that hes going through and fill his role. I think someone like Cracknell or Porter could not only fill his role, but do a better job in his position. Its that simple. I dont want all these stupid theories of how someone thinks we are worse without him when hes only missed 3 games. The question is, what has he done for us that someone else (cracknell or porter) cant do? The answer is nothing.

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12-20-2013, 03:45 PM
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It's all relative. Stastny over Berglund? Sure we'd be better. Sobotka over Berglund in the long haul? No we won't be better. Berglund is one of those guys that you hold on too unless you get a for sure upgrade for him. I rather keep him until he leaves on his own over trading him for picks or a rental. He still has a lot of upside and is streaky season to season.

I just think he's one of those guys that should have a playmaker or 2 on his wings. He had Perron and Oshie for most of his career on his wings. They had great chemistry and this year he's gotten off to a slow start and hasn't meshed with Schwartz and Tarasenko. Personally I think Berglund should be centering both of those guys but Hitch has a massive man crush on Sobotka.

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12-20-2013, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Having 24 takeways and only 5 giveaways is contributing to the team.....
That comes from having a big body and long stick. His takeaways are usually intercepted passes in the neutral/offensive zone, it's never from actually stripping the puck from someone like Schwartz and Steen do, Berglund just doesn't have the speed for it. Look I'm not saying Berglund is a bad player, he's just mediocre. He's another Handzus.

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12-20-2013, 03:47 PM
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Skew06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Speaking of Berglund not hitting he does have 49 hits for the season. While not a great number it is more hits than Oshie, Steen, Jackman, and Morrow. He's number 3 on the team for takeaways with 24 with only 5 giveaways.
Congrats Berglund, you have more hits than guys that area a lot smaller than you and that are skill players on the first line. Congrats Berglund, you have more hits than a coward defenseman that should have retired 3 years ago. Congrats Berglund, you have more hits than someone who played 3 games less than you. Youre 6'3 Berglund. Act like it.

How about comparing him to Backes or Stewart in the hitting department (someone his size)

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12-20-2013, 03:49 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Skew06 View Post
Congrats Berglund, you have more hits than guys that area a lot smaller than you and that are skill players on the first line. Congrats Berglund, you have more hits than a coward defenseman that should have retired 3 years ago. Congrats Berglund, you have more hits than someone who played 3 games less than you. Youre 6'3 Berglund. Act like it.

How about comparing him to Backes or Stewart in the hitting department (someone his size)
Well he is tied with Stewart in hits. And Backes is one of the top hitting players in the league so it's not very fair to compare the two.

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12-20-2013, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
So much I disagree with in the OP. You completely ignore Berglund's role in relieving some of Backes' match-ups and allowing the team to successfully shut down top lines when on the road (and they can't control the match-ups with Backes' line getting that job).

He's big. He is very tough on the puck. He plays very good defense against top level talent.

His playmaking is mediocre. He has shown he can score in this league (and in international play) but is having a subpar year. Last year David Backes was in that category, but he got a lot more patience and grace from the fans.

This is not likely to be a thread that leads to any realistic appraisal of Berglund's role on the team. He is available for trade, but only if a better forward is coming back. But just subtracting him is stupid for the team. Did you not watch how they looked when he was out? I'll give you a clue, that was exactly the same time the team started to struggle.
^
This is a fair assessment of his play...


Is he having a good offensive year? No

Is he garbage that should be replaced with a forth-liner that's been a healthy scratch most of the year, or the forth-liner that played in the AHL most of the year, and was put on waivers and wasn't claimed? Do I even need to answer that?


Last edited by bluesman11: 12-20-2013 at 04:58 PM.
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12-20-2013, 03:51 PM
  #23
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I hope Berglund goes out and scores 3 goals next game and proves me wrong. I know he has talent, its a matter of him turning into a man on the ice. He doesnt have a competitive mentality right now. When he does, he can be scary good. He needs to play pissed off hockey. Right now it looks like he has absolutely no motivation. Maybe a trip to Chicago will help him find that mentality.

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12-20-2013, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
That comes from having a big body and long stick. His takeaways are usually intercepted passes in the neutral/offensive zone, it's never from actually stripping the puck from someone like Schwartz and Steen do, Berglund just doesn't have the speed for it. Look I'm not saying Berglund is a bad player, he's just mediocre. He's another Handzus.
A takeaway is a takeaway no matter how you get it. It's using the physical tools you have to do the job. If he didn't takeaway the pass the other team keeps possession of the puck to create scoring chances.

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12-20-2013, 03:52 PM
  #25
frostyflo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
That comes from having a big body and long stick. His takeaways are usually intercepted passes in the neutral/offensive zone, it's never from actually stripping the puck from someone like Schwartz and Steen do, Berglund just doesn't have the speed for it. Look I'm not saying Berglund is a bad player, he's just mediocre. He's another Handzus.
yet Handzus won the cup last year, right? he was a very important part of the Stanley-Cup champion, right?

taking away pucks and intercepting passes is important, no matter how you wanna see it.

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