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The Three Constants In Life: Death, Taxes and Oilers Draft Watch

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Old
03-11-2014, 06:05 PM
  #901
RebuildTheRebuild
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
None, but I don't need to watch a game to tell you that 21 points in 37 games since the beginning of december is dissapointing. On top of that you have the story about him being booed by Sault fans...
Nurse was never the target of the boos.

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Russon wrote the column in defence of Nurse earlier this week, saying it was wrong to boo the 18-year-old player, the Oilers first round pick in the 2013 draft. Wrote Russon: “Boo birds have been circling the rafters of the Essar Centre and their target has been Soo Greyhounds defenceman Darnell Nurse. OK, so the big defenceman, a former first-round Ontario Hockey League draft pick of the Greyhounds who has since become a first-round National Hockey League selection of the Edmonton Oilers, has been struggling. But does an 18-year old kid deserve the wicked wrath of fans by being booed on home ice?”

Rather than ignite scorn against the boo birds, Russon himself was attacked, with a number of fans claiming Nurse had never been booed.
This guy was never drafted to be an offensive defensemen. 21 points is not great but neither does that automatically mean he is disappointing. The stats only tells us of his offensive capabilities which are nothing special at the moment. The stats however does not tell us how he has played night in and night out. Also they do not tell us how he has performed defensively either.

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03-11-2014, 06:08 PM
  #902
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None, but I don't need to watch a game to tell you that 21 points in 37 games since the beginning of december is dissapointing. On top of that you have the story about him being booed by Sault fans...
Just stop.

Citing that ridiculous made-up story also shows you haven't the slightest clue about the player.

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Old
03-11-2014, 06:08 PM
  #903
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I think we can safely pencil whoever we get with our 1st rounder this year will be in the lineup opening night unless we somehow don't end up with a top 3 pick (either by trading down or having a late season surge up the standings).

If it's Ekblad, he'll play. He's NHL ready, and we have a whole lot of nothing at RD after Petry and Schultz. It's more likely that Nurse plays a second post-draft season in junior than Ekblad not playing right out of the gate.

Gagner was almost traded already this year, and they were willing to take back garbage in return (assuming the Clifford rumours were true). Surely someone will be able to offer more than Clifford and/or take on Gagner's full salary, which means he's gone IMO. And since adding a more suitable 2C in free agency or by trade will next to impossible, I think it's safe to say a guy like Reinhart or Bennett will probably be able to make the team on merit given our depth at the position.

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03-11-2014, 06:13 PM
  #904
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Doughty was also close to a PPG, and way to pick your stats on Pietrangelo his last year he was +20, and the two years prior to that +1 he was +29 and +49 respectively. How is no one else concerned that for a guy playing 27 minutes a night or whatever it is he's only scoring at a little over a .5ppg pace since december, and has a brutal +/- when compared to the rest of the team.

Edit: Pronger was also over a PPG and actually had 77 points in 61 games.
I was not comparing points. I was comparing +/-, which is an underly useless stat, and has been proven so too many times to give it any credibility.

He is a -1 how is that brutal. Jared "two way, top 15 pick" McCann is only +5. Tolchinsky (leading scorer) is -8.

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Old
03-11-2014, 06:13 PM
  #905
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3 tiers of needs for the Oilers:

Top pairing D... draft Ekblad

#2C... Reinhart/Bennett/Draisaitl/DalColle

Size/grit for the top 6/9: Ritchie/Virtanen/Perlini/Tuch

I'd love to get one from each category.

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Old
03-11-2014, 06:14 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by CurrenR View Post
Nurse was never the target of the boos.



This guy was never drafted to be an offensive defensemen. 21 points is not great but neither does that automatically mean he is disappointing. The stats only tells us of his offensive capabilities which are nothing special at the moment. The stats however does not tell us how he has played night in and night out. Also they do not tell us how he has performed defensively either.
For a guy playing close to 30 minutes a night he should be scoring at a higher pace considering the team he's on. Also leave it to HF to think that a rookie with 0 NHL regular season games played is our best d man.

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03-11-2014, 06:17 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
For a guy playing close to 30 minutes a night he should be scoring at a higher pace considering the team he's on. Also leave it to HF to think that a rookie with 0 NHL regular season games played is our best d man.
You clearly aren't familiar with the team he's on.

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03-11-2014, 06:21 PM
  #908
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I was not comparing points. I was comparing +/-, which is an underly useless stat, and has been proven so too many times to give it any credibility.

He is a -1 how is that brutal. Jared "two way, top 15 pick" McCann is only +5. Tolchinsky (leading scorer) is -8.
Then you have another d man on his team with a whooping +33. Listen if Nurse is playing 30 minutes a night on a team that is outscoring the opposition he should be a plus, at the very least he should be putting up better numbers with those minutes. I'm not to worried about him yet, but if we want him to be a top pairing dman. He absolutely should go back and become more offensive and work on controlling the game. Also going to the WJC should help his development and hopefully leading a team to a deep playoff run. The last thing we need to do is bring him up and have him turn into a Smid, or a guy who puts up 10 points a year in the NHL.

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03-11-2014, 06:22 PM
  #909
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You clearly aren't familiar with the team he's on.
Funny he didn't seem to have a problem scoring 32 points in 33 games on the same team. What changed?

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03-11-2014, 06:26 PM
  #910
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Funny he didn't seem to have a problem scoring 32 points in 33 games on the same team. What changed?
The team started on fire and cooled down.

Pretty simple, honestly.

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03-11-2014, 06:26 PM
  #911
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Funny he didn't seem to have a problem scoring 32 points in 33 games on the same team. What changed?
He focused on his defensive game, 'simplified' it as Team Canada requested. The number of PIM's he takes is a fraction of what is was at the start of the year too.

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Old
03-11-2014, 06:27 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
I was not comparing points. I was comparing +/-, which is an underly useless stat, and has been proven so too many times to give it any credibility.

He is a -1 how is that brutal. Jared "two way, top 15 pick" McCann is only +5. Tolchinsky (leading scorer) is -8.
It's only useless when being compared between players on different teams or if a player has a small sample size. Look at our team you can tell that Gordon is a better defensive player then Nail Yakupov for example.

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Old
03-11-2014, 06:28 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Then you have another d man on his team with a whooping +33. Listen if Nurse is playing 30 minutes a night on a team that is outscoring the opposition he should be a plus, at the very least he should be putting up better numbers with those minutes. I'm not to worried about him yet, but if we want him to be a top pairing dman. He absolutely should go back and become more offensive and work on controlling the game. Also going to the WJC should help his development and hopefully leading a team to a deep playoff run. The last thing we need to do is bring him up and have him turn into a Smid, or a guy who puts up 10 points a year in the NHL.
So? Do you know what kind of minute that guy plays? Is he sheltered? Does he play PK?

Why wasn't he trusted to shut down McDavid like Nurse was? (SSM GM told this to the media)

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Old
03-11-2014, 06:29 PM
  #914
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Ganly is a solid OHL defenseman.

It's no surprise his +/- is where it is when he's playing easier competition.

Watch the games and you'd see that.

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03-11-2014, 06:29 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
So? Do you know what kind of minute that guy plays? Is he sheltered? Does he play PK?

Why wasn't he trusted to shut down McDavid like Nurse was? (SSM GM told this to the media)
Way to miss the entire point of the post...

Edit: And if he can't shutdown a 16 year old Mcdavid whats he going to look like vs Crosby in his prime? Or Kopitar, Thornton, Getzlaf, etc...

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Old
03-11-2014, 06:33 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
It's only useless when being compared between players on different teams or if a player has a small sample size. Look at our team you can tell that Gordon is a better defensive player then Nail Yakupov for example.
Ofcourse there is exceptions

Doughty was -1 on his team, and there was a +21 D. However Doughty played 30 mins a game.

Being -1 leaves me with no concerns

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03-11-2014, 06:36 PM
  #917
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Way to miss the entire point of the post...

Edit: And if he can't shutdown a 16 year old Mcdavid whats he going to look like vs Crosby in his prime? Or Kopitar, Thornton, Getzlaf, etc...
Two SSM/ER games this season:

Nurse: 3 points
McDavid: 1 point

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Old
03-11-2014, 06:41 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
It's only useless when being compared between players on different teams or if a player has a small sample size. Look at our team you can tell that Gordon is a better defensive player then Nail Yakupov for example.
How about comparing Luke Gazdic to Gordon? Plus/Minus does not show who is always the best defender.

Another better example is Shea Weber to Ryan Ellis on the Predators this season. Weber is a -16 compared to Ellis who is a +7. By that logic we can guess that Ryan Ellis is the best on the team defensively? The matter of the fact is you cannot judge someone's defensive play from Plus/Minus. Shea Weber plays top minutes against the toughest competition. Ellis does not. It is not nearly reliable enough to show who the better defender is.

Nurse has played the top competition all season. As dnicks17 mentioned its no surprise Ganly's plus/minus is better because he is playing the easier competition.

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Old
03-11-2014, 06:45 PM
  #919
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Way to miss the entire point of the post...

Edit: And if he can't shutdown a 16 year old Mcdavid whats he going to look like vs Crosby in his prime? Or Kopitar, Thornton, Getzlaf, etc...
He did... He got three points and was a +1

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03-11-2014, 06:46 PM
  #920
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Ofcourse there is exceptions

Doughty was -1 on his team, and there was a +21 D. However Doughty played 30 mins a game.

Being -1 leaves me with no concerns
You keep focusing on the one statistic. For me its the fact the he's NOT close to a PPG AND also a - player that has me concerned. If were developing him to be a great two way player and he's playing 30 minutes a night with top PP time shouldn't he be producing?? Doughty, Pietrangelo, Pronger, Etc.. all had either close PPG seasons or massive +/- in the case of Pietrangelo. Nurse has neither and while right now it's not concerning, saying something as stupid as he'd be our best NHL defenceman is ridiculous and HFFanboy talk. We will see how he does next year but we absolutely need Nurse to be a top pairing guy and if he doesn't come in and absolutely dominate I say send him back like St. Louis did with Pietrangelo.

For you OHL guys would you say Ekblad is ahead of Nurse or behind Nurse in development? His stats say he's the better defender but I haven't seen much of either this year.

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03-11-2014, 06:47 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Way to miss the entire point of the post...

Edit: And if he can't shutdown a 16 year old Mcdavid whats he going to look like vs Crosby in his prime? Or Kopitar, Thornton, Getzlaf, etc...
What was the point? that you used +/- with no context?

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03-11-2014, 06:48 PM
  #922
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Personally I see Nurse as the better defender right now.

I think that part of Ekblad's game gets a bit overrated.

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03-11-2014, 06:48 PM
  #923
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
He did... He got three points and was a +1
Well then who's he getting all the minuses against?

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03-11-2014, 06:49 PM
  #924
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"draft talk"

this is nonsense

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Old
03-11-2014, 06:54 PM
  #925
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Does anyone else see a bit of Phaneuf in Ekblad's skating style, or is it just me? High-shouldered, Frankenstein style.

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