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Old
01-01-2014, 06:58 PM
  #251
Flyerss
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Scott Burnside was one of 2 writers who had unprecedented, behind-the-scenes access to the ‪‎USAHockey‬ team selection process and some amazing quotes came from behind the closed doors:
- Brian Burke: ‪‎Senators‬ "Bobby Ryan isn't intense. That word is not in his vocabulary. It's never going to be in his vocabulary. He can't spell intense. I should have taken Jack (Johnson over Bobby Ryan in the 2005 draft)".
- Dale Tallon ‪‎BlueJackets‬ "Jack Johnson is having a bad year. He needs to get his s*** together".
- Burke: "I always assume a disaster's going to happen when ‪‎Coyotes‬ Keith Yandle is on the ice. If Yandle goes in our top four, I think everyone we play is excited".
- GM David Poile ‪#‎Wild‬ "Jason Pominville and ‪‎Islanders‬ Okposo "aren't built for big ice and have never been considered"
- Don Waddell "If ‪#‎Jets‬ Dustin Byfuglien is going to have to play minutes defensively, boy, right now he's a high-risk guy"
- Associate GM Ray Shero "I'm going to take my ****ing chances with ‪‎RedWings‬ Jimmy Howard"
Burke and Poile are jerks you don't need to insult the player to make your pov

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Old
01-01-2014, 07:04 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
I was exaggerating. I think it's an awful deal for the Canes.
I see, my bad then. Sometimes it's hard to tell. I agree on the deal being pretty bad, but maybe they're hoping Liles turns it around. In which case, it might not turn to be as bad after all, since I think at his peak performance he's quite decent.

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Burke and Poile are jerks you don't need to insult the player to make your pov
Why Poile? He said nothing insulting.

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Old
01-01-2014, 07:26 PM
  #253
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Why Poile? He said nothing insulting.
he asked miller to be usa's #3 goalie just to see his reaction

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Old
01-01-2014, 07:34 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Flyerss View Post
he asked miller to be usa's #3 goalie just to see his reaction
Where did you hear that?

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01-01-2014, 07:36 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Where did you hear that?
from Scott Burnside

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Old
01-01-2014, 07:44 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Flyerss View Post
he asked miller to be usa's #3 goalie just to see his reaction
Quote:
The GM is especially interested in gauging where netminder Ryan Miller is at. The tournament MVP in Vancouver in 2010, Miller's game and his standing within USA Hockey has declined in the past three years.

Poile wants to know if they come to Miller and tell him he's considered the third-best goalie, and as such, isn't likely to play at all, he would accept that role.
Not as bad as you're making it out to be.

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01-01-2014, 07:45 PM
  #257
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Here's a link the article. Pretty interesting read.

http://espn.go.com/olympics/hockey/s...pics-was-named

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01-01-2014, 07:52 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
Not as bad as you're making it out to be.
Yeah, not only would I say it's not as bad, it's not bad at all. It's a reasonable question.

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01-01-2014, 07:52 PM
  #259
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apparently JJ,Suter,McD,Martin were locks at the begging of the season.
also Martin-Orpik pair was considered

Zach Parise, David Backes, Dustin Brown, Patrick Kane and Ryan Callahan, Derek Stepan, Paul Stastny,Joe Pavelski were locks and one of them will be the captain.


Quote:
-"I think this left-shot, right-shot [combination] is going to be more important than we think," Holmgren warns.

-Poile wants to know if there's a player who should be moved further out of the discussion.
Holmgren suggests that DeKeyser may not yet be ready for this, either.
"That's a little steep for me to put DeKeyser in that mix," he says.

-If Ryan is the man then it leaves one spot.

Saad? Galchenyuk? Wheeler?
Paul Holmgren suggests Saad over Wheeler.

"He's more versatile," Holmgren says.

-Holmgren suggests that if Yandle makes the team, ostensibly because of his power-play expertise, then they should balance one of the final spots with a player with more defensive upside, like Erik Johnson or Jack Johnson

-Holmgren suggests the coaches have to decide if Ryan is going to be an integral part of the power-play groups, and if so, he needs to be pushed ahead. But if not, maybe they should be looking at two more well-rounded players.
if you're intrested in how to process of selecting the guys worked
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beat me to it

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Old
01-01-2014, 07:57 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
Not as bad as you're making it out to be.
i heard it from another guy who said that he read it in scott's article, so i said what he told me,
after reading the article it doesn't look that bad.

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Old
01-01-2014, 08:07 PM
  #261
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Hmm, by the way, I just saw the highlights from the Winter Classic, and was wondering if anyone knew how Bernier was allowed to wear the knit hat he did. I mean, it looked cool as hell, but it seems like a blatant equipment violation to me.

I also loved how Franson decided to do an artist's interpretation of a cone just when the Red Wings were attacking to score the tying goal.

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01-01-2014, 08:09 PM
  #262
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My thoughts on why Yandle isn't much of snub:

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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
All his offense is useless if he's a trainwreck defensively. Despite having fairly sheltered minutes in Phoenix the opposition still scores at an alarmingly high rate. There's a reason he's a -5 while tied for 3rd in points on his team at 27 pts.

That's not the kind of Dman I want on Team USA facing the best players in the world.
Like Briere in his later years, it's highly doubtful he'll be able to produce enough offense to make up for his defensive shortcomings.

This is also why I'm very, very against trading for him.

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01-01-2014, 08:21 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Hmm, by the way, I just saw the highlights from the Winter Classic, and was wondering if anyone knew how Bernier was allowed to wear the knit hat he did. I mean, it looked cool as hell, but it seems like a blatant equipment violation to me.

I also loved how Franson decided to do an artist's interpretation of a cone just when the Red Wings were attacking to score the tying goal.
Other goalies have done it in past Winter Classics, so I guess it's allowed.


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01-01-2014, 08:24 PM
  #264
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Team USA selections are horrible ... but great for us Canadians!

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01-01-2014, 08:26 PM
  #265
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I had wanted Yandle in the lineup originally, but I'm perfectly fine with him being snubbed. There are plenty of American defenders who provide excellent offensive ability with reliable defensive play. I like Fowler, Carlson, and Shattenkirk more than Yandle.

I don't like how there was seemingly little deliberation over the returning "leadership group" in Brown and Callahan, but there was plenty of deliberation and nit-picking over Ryan. I like Pacioretty, but most of the negative remarks about Ryan can be used against him as well. I can ultimately forgive the Ryan snub, but it's really only for the justification that Holmgren gave:

Quote:
If Ryan is going to be an integral part of the power-play groups, and if so, he needs to be pushed ahead. But if not, maybe they should be looking at two more well-rounded players.
I don't buy the lack of compete nonsense and the gut feelings spewed by Burke and Poile. I'm sorry, if you're leaving a world-class talent at home, you need proper, logical, and tactical justification for doing so.


Orpik is just an awful selection, and the only one I find truly inexcusable. Again, how can you have so little deliberation about a guy like Orpik but over-analyze players like Yandle and the Johnsons? Further, how can you possibly come to the conclusion that Jack Johnson is better than Yandle or E. Johnson?

Erik Johnson deserves to be there as much as anybody else. If nothing else, he's the ideal seventh defenseman. You can play him with different players and expect reliable minutes out of him.

I think Byfuglien could have also been a fine taxi squad player, though I'm not sure who I would take him over.


Overall, the team looks like a contender (how could it not be?), but it could have just been better, and if the team fails, the blame clearly belongs with those who picked it. Funny, though-- doesn't that remind us of our gripes with Holmgren? Just goes to show, all GMs across the board are far, far from perfect.

In fact, of all the members of the selection committee in the Burnside article, I thought Holmgren was the most logical and deliberative. He actually had strategic justifications rather than arbitrary and subjective feelings.

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01-01-2014, 08:33 PM
  #266
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I don't think anyone ever denies that Holmgren is good at assessing talent. His problems come more with the cap and asset management. Neither of which really matter in the deliberation process for the Olympics or the Olympics in general.

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Old
01-01-2014, 08:35 PM
  #267
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The coaches also had some input in the decisions. The GMs wanted Saad over Oshie, but the coaches wanted Oshie because of his chemistry with Backes and his ability in shootouts. In the end, they picked Oshie.

I'm thinking maybe the coaches favored Orpik over the other players. That's really the only way that selection makes any sense IMO.

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01-01-2014, 08:40 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
The coaches also had some input in the decisions. The GMs wanted Saad over Oshie, but the coaches wanted Oshie because of his chemistry with Backes and his ability in shootouts. In the end, they picked Oshie.

I'm thinking maybe the coaches favored Orpik over the other players. That's really the only way that selection makes any sense IMO.
I have to think Byslma pushed it. Maybe Orpik matches up against Malkin and Crosby really, really well in practice...who knows. I guess we'll find out how it goes soon enough.

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01-01-2014, 08:41 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I don't think anyone ever denies that Holmgren is good at assessing talent. His problems come more with the cap and asset management. Neither of which really matter in the deliberation process for the Olympics or the Olympics in general.
I'm aware; I'm only saying that clearly all GMs are prone to making mistakes. People often talk about Holmgren's cap issues as "little mistakes that accumulate over time", and my point is that all GMs make similarly boneheaded decisions.

And I'd rather have small cap issues over time than have chronic player selection issues like Nashville has been plagued with by Poile.

I'm not trying to start yet another Holmgren debate; I'm just trying to say that we should be thankful we don't have GMs with more pronounced flaws.

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01-01-2014, 08:41 PM
  #270
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I'm aware; I'm only saying that clearly all GMs are prone to making mistakes. People often talk about Holmgren's cap issues as "little mistakes that accumulate over time", and my point is that all GMs make similarly boneheaded decisions.

And I'd rather have small cap issues over time than have chronic player selection issues like Nashville has been plagued with by Poile.

I'm not trying to start yet another Holmgren debate; I'm just trying to say that we should be thankful we don't have GMs with more pronounced flaws.
Sure, but we should also be seeking a GM with less flaws.

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01-01-2014, 09:00 PM
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
Other goalies have done it in past Winter Classics, so I guess it's allowed.
Hmm, weird.

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Team USA selections are horrible ... but great for us Canadians!
We're also going to beat the US due to these selections

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01-01-2014, 09:07 PM
  #272
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After reading the Burnside article, it's kind of scary how the evaluation process works from a logical POV from NHL GM's

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01-01-2014, 09:16 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I'm aware; I'm only saying that clearly all GMs are prone to making mistakes. People often talk about Holmgren's cap issues as "little mistakes that accumulate over time", and my point is that all GMs make similarly boneheaded decisions.

And I'd rather have small cap issues over time than have chronic player selection issues like Nashville has been plagued with by Poile.

I'm not trying to start yet another Holmgren debate; I'm just trying to say that we should be thankful we don't have GMs with more pronounced flaws.
Holmgren isn't the worst GM out there and he's not overly bad or overly good, but not all GMs make mistakes like the Pronger 35+ "misunderstanding" or the emergency contract situations we had or the silly cap dumps a la Gagne, Upshall, etc.

Comparing us to Nashville also isn't very fair. Nashville isn't a major market and have troubles keeping up with the cap (and likely will have a harder time with it if it keeps rising). They also aren't a desirable free agent destination for the most part.

You're right that some people get on Holmgren too much, but we could do better. I'll leave it at that as I wouldn't want to hijack this thread as I'm sure you don't.

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After reading the Burnside article, it's kind of scary how the evaluation process works from a logical POV from NHL GM's
Yeah, it kind of makes me disrespect the whole process. I'm not a fan of international competition in better since I feel like it's a one-sided competition that really doesn't amount to much other then nationalistic pride and takes away from the NHL regular season, but that selection process sounds really bad. Coaches and GMs are basically free to play favorites and bash players.

I know some will say they might not be playing favorites, but if Bylsma is the coach and a guy like Orpik made it along with all the other snubs it's obvious that there was a lot of favoritism involved.

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Old
01-01-2014, 09:17 PM
  #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
After reading the Burnside article, it's kind of scary how the evaluation process works from a logical POV from NHL GM's
Brian Burke doesnt have a logical POV

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Old
01-01-2014, 09:18 PM
  #275
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Holmgren does seem to be one of the few in that article who come across quite well... he seems logical while some of the others just seem like they have already made their minds up on players not on ability or performance, but on favouritism or a personal level.

It was quite obvious that Burke just does not like Ryan as a person!

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