HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Minnesota Wild
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Mike Yeo Discussion #2

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-06-2014, 10:31 AM
  #801
MuckOG
The Brodin Effect
 
MuckOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: In a tree stand.
Country: United States
Posts: 8,314
vCash: 133
I think people focus too much on the "dump and chase". I challenge fans to ignore the advanced stats for a game, take a pen and piece of paper and do the following:

1) Label each zone entry as either "carry in/pass in" or "dump"

2) Identify the player, or line on the ice, that is dumping the puck.

3) If it's a dump, see if there is a mitigating factor and make a note. Mitigating factors could include: line change, dumped to allow for forecheckers to get back onsides, etc.

I think you'll find that there are rarely times where the team dumps the puck as a matter of "system" or for no reason, unless you are talking about the 4th line, who's main responsibility is to keep the puck deep in the offensive zone as much as possible.

MuckOG is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 10:35 AM
  #802
this providence
Chips in Bed Theorem
 
this providence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Paul
Posts: 10,380
vCash: 500
I couldn't care less if they dumb & chase or carry the puck; for the most part.

What I do have a problem with is that they collapse too much in the defensive zone and in general, play their wings too low. It doesn't allow for them to get numbers up the ice as often as they should. It's compounded by the fact that they don't activate their defenders in the rush much at all in general, but that's slightly due to personnel.

__________________

After Meaningless Win - 3/29/12 - Game 77 | SoH-"Who knows, that could have cost us a Cup tonight." | Dooohkay
this providence is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 10:35 AM
  #803
MN_Gopher
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mpls
Posts: 3,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
Spurgeon and Scandella, too. Parise's or Pominville's production haven't dropped either.
Parise last years in NJ

1.14 ppg
1.01 ppg
injury year
.84 ppg
.79 ppg MN
.81 ppg MN

Goals
.45 in last year in NJ
.37 and .41 in MN.
That is a drop

It took 7 points in two games to get there. If he keeps that up great but if not those numbers for this year will fall back.

Pommer

BUF desending order

.97 ppg
.8
.75
.71
.89
.68 Buffalo terrible year. Ruff fired
this year .67 for the wild.


Last Year Spurgeon had 15 points 5 and 10 in 39 games.
This year he has 1 and 13 in 44 games.


Coyle's numbers for points are almost dead even, fractions apart.
Last year 8 goals in 37 this year 6 in 46.

MN_Gopher is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 10:37 AM
  #804
Jarick
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 25,250
vCash: 500
I don't think it's a systematic thing in terms of offensive zone entries so much as it is personnel on the back end that starts the breakout as well as defensive zone exits. If all five skaters are collapsed and the Wild get control of the puck, that's not going to allow for a very efficient transition game. Or if the defenseman who gets control of the puck is not very good, that's going to be more of a chip off the glass exit vs a breakout pass on the tape.

When the Wild play well, they are forcing other teams to dump the puck in or forcing bad shots that are easily steered into the corner. The defenseman picks up the puck and the forwards are already getting into position for the breakout. That's when you catch the other team out of position and can enter the zone with numbers maintaining possession of the puck.

Either way, Yeo's team has not been able to do that for any sustained period of time.

Jarick is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 10:39 AM
  #805
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
 
Dr Jan Itor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MinneSNOWta
Posts: 17,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Gopher View Post
Parise last years in NJ

1.14 ppg
1.01 ppg
injury year
.84 ppg
.79 ppg MN
.81 ppg MN

Goals
.45 in last year in NJ
.37 and .41 in MN.
That is a drop

It took 7 points in two games to get there. If he keeps that up great but if not those numbers for this year will fall back.

Pommer

BUF desending order

.97 ppg
.8
.75
.71
.89
.68 Buffalo terrible year. Ruff fired
this year .67 for the wild.
So you're saying that as forwards get older, their numbers go down? Shocking.

Dr Jan Itor is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 10:42 AM
  #806
Jarick
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 25,250
vCash: 500
That's a good argument to keep Zucker and not sign Vanek. Zucker should steadily improve over the next five years while Vanek should steadily decline.

If Granlund, Coyle, Nino, Zucker, Haula, Brodin, Scandella, Spurgeon, and Dumba all steadily improve over the next five years...that's going to make the team a contender. Koivu, Parise, Pominville, and Suter will likely decline over that time but hopefully still play at a high enough level that they can be effective.

Jarick is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 10:44 AM
  #807
rynryn
Reluctant Optimist
 
rynryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Minny
Country: United States
Posts: 26,783
vCash: 50
i happen to think Yeo is doing a decent job. this "deserves" and extension thing though...How about extending him would be less disruptive to the health of the organization. You could hire Laviolette (I,like Muck, think he's overrated) or some other fired head coach but there aren't any guarantees they'd work out at all. then you'd have to make sure they have the same general style you've been building your team to play. Nothing Yeo has done or not done has made that an appealing gamble.

rynryn is online now  
Old
02-06-2014, 10:47 AM
  #808
rynryn
Reluctant Optimist
 
rynryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Minny
Country: United States
Posts: 26,783
vCash: 50
i'm not a huge Zucker booster and I would definitely roll my dice with him for the cost/benefit bargain he'd be over the term of a (probably) max length contract Vanek will want. short term? no doubt in the universe Vanek would help the team. There's no guarantee with Zucker of course, but he'll be cheap, he's young, he's fast, and if he doesn't advance enough he's not going to be a monster contract we have to work around.

rynryn is online now  
Old
02-06-2014, 10:54 AM
  #809
kfan22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,820
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
So you're saying that as forwards get older, their numbers go down? Shocking.
And the fact they moved from the wide open East to the Tougher physical Western Conference

kfan22 is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 10:55 AM
  #810
MN_Gopher
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mpls
Posts: 3,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
So you're saying that as forwards get older, their numbers go down? Shocking.
How do you explain Stastnys numbers going up, Under Roy. By a nice margin

Or Jeff Carter's numbers going way up once out of Columbus i think he got older?

Why are Hossa, Kane and Sharp all on pace for better years? Keith too and Seabrook. This is from previous years so age is higher.

St Louis has been at a point per for the last 10 years. Why as he gets older has he not fallen off?

All of a Sudeden Okposo has blown away his previous numbers?

Niskanen is going to put the best point total, leading the league in +/- i think in this his eighth year?

Last time AO put up 39 goals 09-10. On pace for his highest total since 07-08.

Getzlaf more goals this year than any other in his career.

Vanek out for his highest point total since 06-07

How many more you want?

MN_Gopher is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 10:55 AM
  #811
rynryn
Reluctant Optimist
 
rynryn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Minny
Country: United States
Posts: 26,783
vCash: 50
parise is doing fine. just saying.

rynryn is online now  
Old
02-06-2014, 10:57 AM
  #812
MN_Gopher
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mpls
Posts: 3,589
vCash: 500
More players, more chemistry this year than last.

Goals last year 122 in 48 = 2.54

This year 142 in 58 = 2.44

Can someone explain this if not for coaching?

MN_Gopher is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 10:59 AM
  #813
MuckOG
The Brodin Effect
 
MuckOG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: In a tree stand.
Country: United States
Posts: 8,314
vCash: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Gopher View Post
More players, more chemistry this year than last.

Goals last year 122 in 48 = 2.54

This year 142 in 58 = 2.44

Can someone explain this if not for coaching?
Players slumping? Injuries to Koivu and Parise? Record number of hit posts?

MuckOG is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 11:19 AM
  #814
kfan22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,820
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Gopher View Post
More players, more chemistry this year than last.

Goals last year 122 in 48 = 2.54

This year 142 in 58 = 2.44

Can someone explain this if not for coaching?
Having veteran guys like Cullen Setoguchi, Bouchard to guys basically playing in their first full NHL Seasons Granlund Coyle, Nino

kfan22 is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 11:19 AM
  #815
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
 
Dr Jan Itor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MinneSNOWta
Posts: 17,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Gopher View Post
How do you explain Stastnys numbers going up, Under Roy. By a nice margin

Or Jeff Carter's numbers going way up once out of Columbus i think he got older?

Why are Hossa, Kane and Sharp all on pace for better years? Keith too and Seabrook. This is from previous years so age is higher.

St Louis has been at a point per for the last 10 years. Why as he gets older has he not fallen off?

All of a Sudeden Okposo has blown away his previous numbers?

Niskanen is going to put the best point total, leading the league in +/- i think in this his eighth year?

Last time AO put up 39 goals 09-10. On pace for his highest total since 07-08.

Getzlaf more goals this year than any other in his career.

Vanek out for his highest point total since 06-07

How many more you want?
Stastny, Okposo, Kane and Ovechkin can still be considered in their "primes" so number increases aren't out of the ordinary. Kane a better talent than anybody on our team, and it's not close right now. Okposo is playing with a 24 year old Tavares, not a 21 year old Granlund. Niskanen is a on a team with Crosby and Malkin, and was forced into a top pairing role due to injuries, his increases are expected. Vanek, again, playing on a line that's better any we can put together, namely because of Tavares. Carter went to a team with much more talent (LA vs. Columbus). So those are a few... Getzlaf, who knows; St. Louis is just a really well put together team.

Dr Jan Itor is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 03:07 PM
  #816
Kari Takko
Registered User
 
Kari Takko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: North Metro, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Gopher View Post
More players, more chemistry this year than last.

Goals last year 122 in 48 = 2.54

This year 142 in 58 = 2.44

Can someone explain this if not for coaching?
All that matters is the team is playing at a higher level...

12-13 = 1.145 pts/game
13-14 = 1.155 pts/game

Can someone explain this if not for coaching?

Kari Takko is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 03:15 PM
  #817
Kari Takko
Registered User
 
Kari Takko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: North Metro, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 958
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Gopher View Post
Parise last years in NJ

1.14 ppg
1.01 ppg
injury year
.84 ppg
.79 ppg MN
.81 ppg MN

Goals
.45 in last year in NJ
.37 and .41 in MN.
That is a drop

It took 7 points in two games to get there. If he keeps that up great but if not those numbers for this year will fall back.

Pommer

BUF desending order

.97 ppg
.8
.75
.71
.89
.68 Buffalo terrible year. Ruff fired
this year .67 for the wild.


Last Year Spurgeon had 15 points 5 and 10 in 39 games.
This year he has 1 and 13 in 44 games.


Coyle's numbers for points are almost dead even, fractions apart.
Last year 8 goals in 37 this year 6 in 46.
In regards to Parise's ppg this year. You might consider that he played a month on a broken foot. That limited his effectiveness during that stretch.

Kari Takko is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 06:31 PM
  #818
MN_Gopher
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mpls
Posts: 3,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Stastny, Okposo, Kane and Ovechkin can still be considered in their "primes" so number increases aren't out of the ordinary. Kane a better talent than anybody on our team, and it's not close right now. Okposo is playing with a 24 year old Tavares, not a 21 year old Granlund. Niskanen is a on a team with Crosby and Malkin, and was forced into a top pairing role due to injuries, his increases are expected. Vanek, again, playing on a line that's better any we can put together, namely because of Tavares. Carter went to a team with much more talent (LA vs. Columbus). So those are a few... Getzlaf, who knows; St. Louis is just a really well put together team.
AO is a 2004 draft. One year older than ZP.

Stastny just 2005.

Steen having a career year and is in 2002.

So we should fire CF for hiring old players past their prime that will only tail off? If this is the best we can expect from Parise we got robbed in that deal. Pomms two years older and signed to the tail off of his career. CF needs to go.

Which one is it. We got jobbed signing older players or we can expect better years ahead?

MN_Gopher is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 07:59 PM
  #819
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
 
Dr Jan Itor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MinneSNOWta
Posts: 17,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Gopher View Post
So we should fire CF for hiring old players past their prime that will only tail off? If this is the best we can expect from Parise we got robbed in that deal. Pomms two years older and signed to the tail off of his career. CF needs to go.

Which one is it. We got jobbed signing older players or we can expect better years ahead?
We didn't get jobbed. Parise and Pominville are doing exactly what they were brought in to do... score 30 goals. They'd likely score more if they were playing with talented 24 year olds, rather than talented 21 year olds... but thems the breaks. If you were expecting them to come in and score 40+, well, that's on you and your unreasonable expectations.

In fact, I think that the maturation of guys like Granlund, Coyle and Nino is going to help sustain the production of the older guys, while adding their own, which will make us a better team in the end.

Dr Jan Itor is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 08:02 PM
  #820
Avder
Animated to Explode
 
Avder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: (_o)/
Country: United States
Posts: 39,070
vCash: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TZM View Post
I understand the numbers a couple years back but he has been given assets that should lift those numbers up. I like Yeo's puck possession system but he hasn't shown any consistensy on it. He's always back to grinder's mentality whenever a game or two is lost. I'm not sure if he tries to adapt to the oppositions game plans too much or what is it, but the main point is that it lacks consistensy. Could be that he values play without the puck too heavily, what would be understandable with a roster that's less skilled. This team has enough of skill to make confident decisions and efficent puck movement, yet the puck is somehow dumped in without a reason.

I want the team to challenge the top tier teams on a regular basis, but with this dump in system, it's not happening. I'm not seeing the team developing their own system, I see a team that's changes the plans 6 times in a season. (I don't count the dump and chase as a system)
This is a fantastic post about why I do not want Yeo beyond this year. He is far too reactionary. As soon as things go south hes juggling lines, collapsing back to a dump and grind and absndoning puck possession, etc etc.

Ideally I am really hoping Babcock is done in Detroit after this season because I think he would be a perfect coach for us since we showed earlier this year we can play puck possession and we can play it well.

Avder is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 09:46 PM
  #821
MN_Gopher
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mpls
Posts: 3,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
We didn't get jobbed. Parise and Pominville are doing exactly what they were brought in to do... score 30 goals. They'd likely score more if they were playing with talented 24 year olds, rather than talented 21 year olds... but thems the breaks. If you were expecting them to come in and score 40+, well, that's on you and your unreasonable expectations.

In fact, I think that the maturation of guys like Granlund, Coyle and Nino is going to help sustain the production of the older guys, while adding their own, which will make us a better team in the end.
I am just hoping they can reach 30 goals.

Pomms on pace for 55 points. Parise in a full 82 is on pace for 66. He blew up with 7 in two games. I hope not, but that number is going to drop. Taking away those two games he would be on pace for 58 points in a full 82. I think that is low for both guys. I see no reason why Parise cannot still score 70+ and Pomms in the mid 60s.

MN_Gopher is offline  
Old
02-06-2014, 09:52 PM
  #822
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
 
Dr Jan Itor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MinneSNOWta
Posts: 17,291
vCash: 500
I'm not too worried. The improvement of guys like Granlund, Nino and Coyle should help. If those guys are going to be what we think they are, then guys like Parise and Pominville and even Koivu should reap the benefits and see their production at the very least hold constant, or perhaps see a bit of an uptick.

Selectively taking away games is also kind of bogus, unless I can take away 2-3 of his scoreless games.

Dr Jan Itor is offline  
Old
02-07-2014, 08:53 AM
  #823
MN_Gopher
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mpls
Posts: 3,589
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
I'm not too worried. The improvement of guys like Granlund, Nino and Coyle should help. If those guys are going to be what we think they are, then guys like Parise and Pominville and even Koivu should reap the benefits and see their production at the very least hold constant, or perhaps see a bit of an uptick.

Selectively taking away games is also kind of bogus, unless I can take away 2-3 of his scoreless games.
Take away two scoreless games and its still under 60 projected against a full 82. He has had 20 scoreless games.

I do not see any improvment in Coyles games. Maybe a better grinder but not much else. Nino and Granlund have the right attitude to get better but Coyle seems do to what he is expected. I do not see Yeo expecting guys to score. I think Nino and Granlund have that "it" factor where they could find success in any situation and will get better. Coyle having great ability but is fine playing safe in Yeo's system. I feel Brodin is the same. He shows flashes where ne could be, still might be, a top 10 NHL d man all around maybe top 5. He like Coyle will play it safe. Is more in between Nino/Granlund and Coyle for the "it" factor.

Once again Suter is over 30 min a game. Stoner, Ballard and Prosser combined for 2:42 more than Suter.

You have to go back to 02-03 to find someone that played close to as much as Suter is this year. Nick Lidstrom and at 4:57 of PP played easier minutes.

The Leetch in 00-01 and he had 6+ min of PP time.

Suter just under 4 of PP.

Part of my fear with Yeo is how is he going to handle a new FA? If you are a D and take chances you play less. You play safe clear and change hockey you play more. Only one does not score points. We should trade Dumba now.

Also with Suter. In NASH a team, maybe, weaker scoring team than MN he put up simular numbers.

Lat 2 NASH
.55
.58
.66 MN Short year could make an argument that over 82 it would taper off.
.55 this year staying about the same all career. Only in MN he is playing 3 min more a game and seeing increased PP time.

At 29.49 a game not sure if that is an NHL record or not. He will not last.

MN_Gopher is offline  
Old
02-07-2014, 09:49 AM
  #824
BigT2002
Registered User
 
BigT2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: some other continent
Country: United States
Posts: 15,109
vCash: 1100
Quote:
Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
parise is doing fine. just saying.
Amazing what happens when you don't have 2 players behind the net doing the same thing isn't it

BigT2002 is offline  
Old
09-03-2014, 05:01 AM
  #825
TZM
Par too easy
 
TZM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Kerava
Country: Finland
Posts: 2,714
vCash: 500
What do people here want to see Yeo improve on?

I really want to see how he transforms the playoff puck possession and intensity for regular season. The team has great character for playoffs but it would be huge to get things going in the regular season and just maybe get a home ice advantage. It's a tough division and conference so it's not a given to even get into the playoffs. Anyway, I don't want to see the dump and chase anymore from the get to. It'll be hard to transfer the game they played in the playoffs into regular season when there's not as much intensity.

Last season started well, despite a the losses. A lot of good scoring chances and the chemistry seemed to grow each passing game. The same time Ballard got injured, things started to get ugly. There was no more maintaining the puck and the time in the o-zone was spent more or less at the boards. Season went on and - to me - it looked like the system (some call it a game plan) was simplified so much it was barely a system. At the end of the season, the game started to look more or less like it did in October.

In short: I demand consistency from Yeo. I'm hopeful.

TZM is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:55 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.