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Who is the better Leaf?

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12-23-2013, 10:32 PM
  #1
Sprague Cleghorn
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Who is the better Leaf?

Thanks guys for the help with the Rangers list.

Now I'm coming up with the Top-9 Greatest Leafs of all time list (greatest contributions to team), and I have no idea who to choose and who to leave out.
Here's my list so far.

Charlie Conacher
Darryl Sittler
Dave Keon
Frank Mahovlich
Mats Sundin
Syl Apps
Ted Kennedy

I'm stuck on who should take the other two spots. Here are the guys I'm considering.

Borje Salming
George Armstrong
King Clancy
Tim Horton
Turk Broda

So which two guys do you guys think I should take? Any old Leafs fan here who can provide some insight? Also I'm open to removing anyone from the list up top.

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12-23-2013, 11:44 PM
  #2
pnep
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Toronto Arenas -- Toronto St. Patricks -- Toronto Maple Leafs

#PlayerPOSNHL "HHOF Monitor PTS" (TOR only)
1Turk "Old Slippery" BrodaG1960.00
2C.J. Syl "Slippery Syl" AppsC1950.00
3Charlie "Big Blue Bomber" ConacherRW1872.00
4Cecil "Babe" DyeRW1664.00
5Ted "Teeder" KennedyC1627.50
6Johnny "China Wall" BowerG1525.50
7Frank "Big M" MahovlichLW1391.00
8Tim "Superman" HortonD1344.85
9Harvey "Busher" JacksonLW1325.50
10Dave KeonC1323.50
11Gordie "Lefty" DrillonRW1209.50
12Francis "King" ClancyD1079.25
13Mats "Sudden" SundinC1034.00
14Harry "Cammie" CameronD1026.00
15George "The Chief" ArmstrongRW973.00
16Borje "The King" SalmingD945.70
17Garnet I. "Ace" BaileyRW883.50
18Sid "Muff" SmithLW838.50
19Allan "Snowshoes" StanleyD824.45
20Joe "Gentleman Joe" PrimeauC808.00
21Bob "Pully" PulfordLW795.50
22Carl "Skitz" BrewerD748.50
23James R. "Jeems" ThomsonD735.75
24Darryl "Sit" SittlerC714.00
25Clarence "Hap" DayD706.75
26Reg "Old Sarge" Noble LW696.10
27Harry "Apple Cheeks" LumleyG656.50
28Corbett "Flash" DennenyC645.50
29Leonar "Red" Kelly C631.70
30Wally "The Whirling Dervish" Stanowski D629.40

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12-24-2013, 12:21 AM
  #3
saskriders
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Originally Posted by pnep View Post


Toronto Arenas -- Toronto St. Patricks -- Toronto Maple Leafs

#PlayerPOSNHL "HHOF Monitor PTS" (TOR only)
1Turk "Old Slippery" BrodaG1960.00
2C.J. Syl "Slippery Syl" AppsC1950.00
3Charlie "Big Blue Bomber" ConacherRW1872.00
4Cecil "Babe" DyeRW1664.00
5Ted "Teeder" KennedyC1627.50
6Johnny "China Wall" BowerG1525.50
7Frank "Big M" MahovlichLW1391.00
8Tim "Superman" HortonD1344.85
9Harvey "Busher" JacksonLW1325.50
10Dave KeonC1323.50
11Gordie "Lefty" DrillonRW1209.50
12Francis "King" ClancyD1079.25
13Mats "Sudden" SundinC1034.00
14Harry "Cammie" CameronD1026.00
15George "The Chief" ArmstrongRW973.00
16Borje "The King" SalmingD945.70
17Garnet I. "Ace" BaileyRW883.50
18Sid "Muff" SmithLW838.50
19Allan "Snowshoes" StanleyD824.45
20Joe "Gentleman Joe" PrimeauC808.00
21Bob "Pully" PulfordLW795.50
22Carl "Skitz" BrewerD748.50
23James R. "Jeems" ThomsonD735.75
24Darryl "Sit" SittlerC714.00
25Clarence "Hap" DayD706.75
26Reg "Old Sarge" Noble LW696.10
27Harry "Apple Cheeks" LumleyG656.50
28Corbett "Flash" DennenyC645.50
29Leonar "Red" Kelly C631.70
30Wally "The Whirling Dervish" Stanowski D629.40
Is there one of these for every team? Original Senators?

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Old
12-24-2013, 12:32 AM
  #4
Sprague Cleghorn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnep View Post


Toronto Arenas -- Toronto St. Patricks -- Toronto Maple Leafs

#PlayerPOSNHL "HHOF Monitor PTS" (TOR only)
1Turk "Old Slippery" BrodaG1960.00
2C.J. Syl "Slippery Syl" AppsC1950.00
3Charlie "Big Blue Bomber" ConacherRW1872.00
4Cecil "Babe" DyeRW1664.00
5Ted "Teeder" KennedyC1627.50
6Johnny "China Wall" BowerG1525.50
7Frank "Big M" MahovlichLW1391.00
8Tim "Superman" HortonD1344.85
9Harvey "Busher" JacksonLW1325.50
10Dave KeonC1323.50
11Gordie "Lefty" DrillonRW1209.50
12Francis "King" ClancyD1079.25
13Mats "Sudden" SundinC1034.00
14Harry "Cammie" CameronD1026.00
15George "The Chief" ArmstrongRW973.00
16Borje "The King" SalmingD945.70
17Garnet I. "Ace" BaileyRW883.50
18Sid "Muff" SmithLW838.50
19Allan "Snowshoes" StanleyD824.45
20Joe "Gentleman Joe" PrimeauC808.00
21Bob "Pully" PulfordLW795.50
22Carl "Skitz" BrewerD748.50
23James R. "Jeems" ThomsonD735.75
24Darryl "Sit" SittlerC714.00
25Clarence "Hap" DayD706.75
26Reg "Old Sarge" Noble LW696.10
27Harry "Apple Cheeks" LumleyG656.50
28Corbett "Flash" DennenyC645.50
29Leonar "Red" Kelly C631.70
30Wally "The Whirling Dervish" Stanowski D629.40
This list looks a little suspect to me. Babe Dye ahead of Mahovlich and Kennedy? Drillon ahead of Clancy? Cameron ahead of Salming? Broda the greatest Leaf?

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12-24-2013, 08:44 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by saskriders View Post
Is there one of these for every team? Original Senators?


Ottawa Senators -- St. Louis Eagles

#PlayerPOSNHL "HHOF Monitor PTS" (OTT1 and STE only)
1Frank "The Flying Dutchman" NighborC2288.50
2Cy "The Cornwall Colt" DennenyLW2191.50
3Georges "Buck" BoucherD2102.75
4Clint "Praying Bennie" BenedictG2029.50
5Francis "King" Clancy D1064.40
6Punch "Old Elbows" BroadbentRW987.00
7Alec "The Ottawa Fireman" ConnellG896.00
8Jack DarraghRW762.50
9Sprague "The Big Train" Cleghorn D656.36
10Eddie Gerard LW522.13
11Frank "The Slumbering Romeo" Finnigan RW452.50
12Hector "Hurricane Hec" Kilrea LW329.50
13Harry "Cammie" CameronD238.39
14Reginald "Hooley" SmithRW213.50
15Alex "Boots" SmithD189.20
16Lionel "Hitch" HitchmanD171.35
17Morley "Rap" BruceD164.40
18Jack Mackell D149.10
19Joe Lamb RW117.50
20Bill Touhey LW106.50
21Ed GormanD105.70
22Syd Howe C102.00
23Al "Big Pete" Shields D84.60
24Jack J. "Jolly Jack" Adams C57.00
25Carl Voss C54.50
26Harry HelmanRW51.00
27Milt Halliday LW51.00
28Danny "Silent Danny" Cox C47.69
29Earl Roche LW46.24
30Art Gagne RW43.88

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12-24-2013, 09:11 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by Jimi Hendrix View Post
Thanks guys for the help with the Rangers list.

Now I'm coming up with the Top-9 Greatest Leafs of all time list (greatest contributions to team), and I have no idea who to choose and who to leave out.
Here's my list so far.

Charlie Conacher
Darryl Sittler
Dave Keon
Frank Mahovlich
Mats Sundin
Syl Apps
Ted Kennedy

I'm stuck on who should take the other two spots. Here are the guys I'm considering.

Borje Salming
George Armstrong
King Clancy
Tim Horton
Turk Broda

So which two guys do you guys think I should take? Any old Leafs fan here who can provide some insight? Also I'm open to removing anyone from the list up top.
I've never flown with the idea that Keon was the best Leaf. I think at the very least Apps, Broda and Conacher would be better. Maybe Kennedy. Mahovlich is a better all-time player, but it's hard to say if he is better as a Leaf since he only spent a decade there compared to Keon's 15 years. I can't put Keon over Horton either.

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12-24-2013, 11:15 AM
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^^^ Ya this a really difficult one, made all the harder for me as a Leafs fan in trying to be objective. A lot of lists Ive seen feature Syl Apps as #1 followed by guys like Babe Dye, Kennedy, Horton, Bower, Keon, Salming, Sittler etc... Some include Gilmour within the top 10 despite his "shortish" tenure as a Leaf. Sundin not because of leadership per se' but based on points, natural talent. Tough one for me as I said. So many greats just in the past 60yrs alone, never mind the 40 before that and so many on par with one another painful to make cuts.

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12-24-2013, 11:25 AM
  #8
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Salming is still the best Leaf I've seen. Ive been watching since the mid 70's. I always wondering how history would view them, if Robinson and Salming could trade places.

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12-24-2013, 11:51 AM
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Salming is still the best Leaf I've seen. Ive been watching since the mid 70's. I always wondering how history would view them, if Robinson and Salming could trade places.
Ya he's certainly one of the Leafs All Time Greats, no question about it. Whats incredible as well was the abuse the guy had to endure as the first really good Swede or Euro in the league, and so to kind of help him out a bit he was often paired with more lugubrious, slower moving tough guys. Had he been left alone to just play hockey & paired with more astute & considerably more talented defencemen (and forwards for that matter), indeed, had he played for Montreal, you really do wonder if we might not be talking about him in the same breath as lets say a Paul Coffey type only tougher. Salming had guts to spare. Total machine. Just a superb defenceman & player. Took a lickin & came back tickin. He & a few others the only bright spots on that team for over a decade... as for Robinson winding up Leaf rather than Montreal property, remember, he needed seasoning in Nova Scotia, his skating not the greatest coming out of Jr. It was the work & tradition in Montreal, its system that in many ways forged Robinson & made him the player he became, realized his potential & then some. Now, think about Toronto in those days..... Ok................ K................. see where Im headed here? Poor old Big Bird, I reckon he just mighta died in that cage huh?

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12-24-2013, 12:18 PM
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Salming the hatred that came his way from opposing players the physical abuse that he took on a semi regular basis and the verbal assults was over the top.Yes he is on my top 10 leafs ever.Sadly he has been forgotten by some but he made it easier for europeans to come to north america without being harassed .

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12-24-2013, 03:11 PM
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Salming, Horton, and Broda should really be ahead of Sittler and Sundin, but I realize the modern fans will have aneurysms if Sundin isn't there.

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12-24-2013, 03:25 PM
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Salming should be in the top 10 hands down, probably the other 2 aw well but not at the expense of Sundin, no Leaf star did as much with as little support as Mats did over his career and he's a lack on any top 10 IMO.

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12-24-2013, 04:03 PM
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Salming, Horton, and Broda should really be ahead of Sittler and Sundin, but I realize the modern fans will have aneurysms if Sundin isn't there.
Our sometime contributor Joe Pelletier has Sundin at 7th, ahead of Sittler, Horton & King Clancy.... Mats Sundin is a leading all time points player with the Leafs' but sorry, he wasnt much of a "leader" in terms of leading the Leafs to the promised land. Obviously not responsible for whomever management surrounded him with in terms of surrounding cast; nor who stood behind the bench. But ya, leave him off the list, aneurysms.

There really doesnt seem to be any real consensus amongst the fan base to be certain, and Ive seen some strange ones from what you would think would be non-partisan entirely objective observers. One list I saw had Bob Pulford at like #8, citing his consistent, quiet game, smart two way play, scoring an important goal during the semis in Game 6 against Chicago in 67. Some list Keon or Kennedy #1, Apps barely top 10 and vice-versa. Then theres Sittler. Could write a 10,000 word essay as to why he should be on the list or a 10,000 word essay explaining why he shouldnt be.

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12-24-2013, 04:16 PM
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Salming the hatred that came his way from opposing players the physical abuse that he took on a semi regular basis and the verbal assults was over the top.Yes he is on my top 10 leafs ever.Sadly he has been forgotten by some but he made it easier for europeans to come to north america without being harassed .
I know in Leaf land Salming never gets forgotten. He'll get an ovation any time he's introduced in Toronto. I don't think Salming would have been Robinson though had they switched places. It isn't as if Salming didn't have support in the 1970s. That was still a bat crazy franchise with Ballard, but a team with Sittler and McDonald was still competitive. It was the 1980s where Salming was on his own.

But Robinson had a more commanding approach about him. Could lead the rush better and could carry the puck with ease. Hard to imagine anyone making a case for Salming being a better all around defenseman. Anything else is just hypothetical. Maybe the Habs don't win 4 Cups in a row without Robinson. In fact, I don't think they do.

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12-24-2013, 04:22 PM
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The hockey news top 100 in 1997 in which they asked over 50 people had Apps at number 33.Had jackson at 55.Had Kennedy 57.Broda at 60.Keon at 67 though Bowman has him in top 15.Salming at 74.Dye at 83.chabot at84.Bower at 87.Primeau at 92.Sittler at 93.Pratt at 96.So its very interesting on what the pros think

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12-24-2013, 05:03 PM
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Sprague Cleghorn
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Salming, Horton, and Broda should really be ahead of Sittler and Sundin, but I realize the modern fans will have aneurysms if Sundin isn't there.
Indeed. I also hope they don't have aneurysms when they don't see Doug Gilmour or Wendel Clark there.

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I know in Leaf land Salming never gets forgotten. He'll get an ovation any time he's introduced in Toronto. I don't think Salming would have been Robinson though had they switched places. It isn't as if Salming didn't have support in the 1970s. That was still a bat crazy franchise with Ballard, but a team with Sittler and McDonald was still competitive. It was the 1980s where Salming was on his own.

But Robinson had a more commanding approach about him. Could lead the rush better and could carry the puck with ease. Hard to imagine anyone making a case for Salming being a better all around defenseman. Anything else is just hypothetical. Maybe the Habs don't win 4 Cups in a row without Robinson. In fact, I don't think they do.
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Salming should be in the top 10 hands down, probably the other 2 aw well but not at the expense of Sundin, no Leaf star did as much with as little support as Mats did over his career and he's a lack on any top 10 IMO.
Now I definitely think Salming should be in my Top-9.

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The hockey news top 100 in 1997 in which they asked over 50 people had Apps at number 33.Had jackson at 55.Had Kennedy 57.Broda at 60.Keon at 67 though Bowman has him in top 15.Salming at 74.Dye at 83.chabot at84.Bower at 87.Primeau at 92.Sittler at 93.Pratt at 96.So its very interesting on what the pros think
Yeah, I used this a guideline, but there's some flaws for the list I'm making. Somehow, I just can't see Clancy (55th) being a greater Leaf than Salming (74th), yet I know that Clancy was the better player historically. Same thing with Jackson, Sittler and Salming. I wouldn't hesitate to take Jackson on my team over Sittler (and maybe Salming), yet I can't see him being a greater Leaf. Maybe it's the modern bias or something?

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12-24-2013, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimi Hendrix View Post
Thanks guys for the help with the Rangers list.

Now I'm coming up with the Top-9 Greatest Leafs of all time list (greatest contributions to team), and I have no idea who to choose and who to leave out.
Here's my list so far.

Charlie Conacher
Darryl Sittler
Dave Keon
Frank Mahovlich
Mats Sundin
Syl Apps
Ted Kennedy

I'm stuck on who should take the other two spots. Here are the guys I'm considering.

Borje Salming
George Armstrong
King Clancy
Tim Horton
Turk Broda

So which two guys do you guys think I should take? Any old Leafs fan here who can provide some insight? Also I'm open to removing anyone from the list up top.
I am not old but from what I know from old timers I'd take off Kennedy and put Turk in. Last two Horton and Salming (King Clancy was the favourite of most old timers I've met)

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12-24-2013, 05:42 PM
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Sprague Cleghorn
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I am not old but from what I know from old timers I'd take off Kennedy and put Turk in. Last two Horton and Salming (King Clancy was the favourite of most old timers I've met)
I thought Kennedy was the "quintessential Leaf".

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12-24-2013, 06:02 PM
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9 Best players I've ever watched:

Sundin
Gilmour
Wendel
Cujo
Potvin
Iafrate
Salming (in his later years)
Vaive
Kaberle
McCabe

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12-24-2013, 06:06 PM
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I thought Kennedy was the "quintessential Leaf".
I suppose that's before my time as is every winning moment in leafs history. There is no unquestioned best leaf. It's not like other franchises that clearly have an all time greatest

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12-24-2013, 06:08 PM
  #21
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To everyone yoyeux noel and to non-believers yoyeuses fetes.I dont agree with a lot of you but you guys make it a lot of fun.Merry Christmas

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12-24-2013, 11:04 PM
  #22
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Include Broda, Horton and Salming. Leave out Sundin to make it an interesting poll. He may belong in the top 9 but not number one winning with 70 % of the kids votes.

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