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Should there be a Women's NHL/KHL?

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Old
12-30-2013, 03:28 PM
  #26
Oilers Chick
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One point that everyone seems to missing here is that more and more girls are taking up the sport (at least here in the US) which means there must be interest or it wouldn't exist. And the interest & growth isn't just in the traditional hockey regions either. My home state of California is the perfect example here. The girls/women's game has seen a tremendous growth in number of participants over the last decade and it's still growing.

As much as I like to see a Women's pro league (if, for no other reason, to help continue to grow the popularity of the sport), right now I can't see it happening, mainly due to financial reasons.

Events such as the Olympics and the NCAA tournaments are probably two of, if not the biggest stages for Women's Hockey right now. And I don't see that changing unless there is more support for it - financially or otherwise. But like everything else, if the demand is strong enough for it, someone will find a way to make it a reality.

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12-30-2013, 06:47 PM
  #27
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Is there a team the womens team canada or team usa could beat in the nhl? Maybe the oilers or sabres? Or beat a team of 4th liners? In your opinion? I think they could. I understand women will never be as strong as men can be. But all types of skill goes into hockey. I've never had an issue keeping up with the men in my league and am actually better than most of them.

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12-30-2013, 07:56 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by manictech View Post
Is there a team the womens team canada or team usa could beat in the nhl? Maybe the oilers or sabres? Or beat a team of 4th liners? In your opinion? I think they could. I understand women will never be as strong as men can be. But all types of skill goes into hockey. I've never had an issue keeping up with the men in my league and am actually better than most of them.
No, neither Team Canada or Team USA could beat any team with NHL caliber players. Both national teams play high school boy's teams and they lose on occasion.

The size and speed differential is too much to overcome at the higher levels of hockey. They would struggle against good boys h.s. teams.

I don't know why there isn't more interest in top level women's hockey. It is a very entertaining game, but it can't be compared to the men's game. I think that is why a lot of people won't give it a chance. They hear that women's hockey has no checking and they automatically think it is an inferior game. If you watch it for what it is the women's game is really fun to watch.


Last edited by forbs02: 12-30-2013 at 08:22 PM.
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12-30-2013, 09:45 PM
  #29
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No, neither Team Canada or Team USA could beat any team with NHL caliber players. Both national teams play high school boy's teams and they lose on occasion.

The size and speed differential is too much to overcome at the higher levels of hockey. They would struggle against good boys h.s. teams.

I don't know why there isn't more interest in top level women's hockey. It is a very entertaining game, but it can't be compared to the men's game. I think that is why a lot of people won't give it a chance. They hear that women's hockey has no checking and they automatically think it is an inferior game. If you watch it for what it is the women's game is really fun to watch.
Well that's sad. I always liked to think some of those girls were at least better than paul bissonnette.

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12-31-2013, 06:55 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manictech View Post
Is there a team the womens team canada or team usa could beat in the nhl? Maybe the oilers or sabres? Or beat a team of 4th liners? In your opinion? I think they could. I understand women will never be as strong as men can be. But all types of skill goes into hockey. I've never had an issue keeping up with the men in my league and am actually better than most of them.
First of all, I am a big supporter of female hockey, and played youth thru varsity hockey with some great female players, including one who became a multiple time member of the USA women's Olympic hockey team.

While women's hockey has made huge leaps and bounds in talent, skill and entertainment value over the last 15 years, they are still lightyears away from competing with any NHL or AHL team.

Even if you make it a No Checking game, the men are just too fast and strong.


Also, at this point in time, I do not think there is enough interest (outside Canada) to support any pro-level women's hockey, other than what is currently out there. There would not be any TV money or revenue investment, because the ROI would not be there.

Let's see what happens in another 10 years.

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12-31-2013, 07:42 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Dampland View Post
First of all, I am a big supporter of female hockey, and played youth thru varsity hockey with some great female players, including one who became a multiple time member of the USA women's Olympic hockey team.

While women's hockey has made huge leaps and bounds in talent, skill and entertainment value over the last 15 years, they are still lightyears away from competing with any NHL or AHL team.

Even if you make it a No Checking game, the men are just too fast and strong.


Also, at this point in time, I do not think there is enough interest (outside Canada) to support any pro-level women's hockey, other than what is currently out there. There would not be any TV money or revenue investment, because the ROI would not be there.

Let's see what happens in another 10 years.
So sad to to here. Now I never thought women would play in the nhl or anything like that. But I did think a few of them could hang with some of the lower nhl players and I def thought they could hang at an ahl level. I never knew about them playing highschool boys teams and sometimes losing. Oh well I don't think there will be a big womens league ever. I'm surprised the wnba is still going, I don't know anyone that watches that.

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01-03-2014, 09:11 AM
  #32
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It is the entire point of the discussion. Hockey is a consumerable product. The NHL/other leagues wouldn't exist without either being financially viable or owned and run by very rich people. The market dictates what exists. You have to live in lala land not to understand.

The fact that the quality of female hockey is awful + the negative brand value it unfairly has means it isn't a viable entit financially, at least on any significant "professional" level.

Again ... this isn't a very clever question, the answer stares you in the face.
In terms of the on-ice product all that matters is the quality of the two teams relative to each other not some arbitrary standard set by the NHL. I have been to CHL games where the talent level is obviously lower than NHL games which are more entertaining to watch than NHL games. Motorsports is a perfect example of this... you have Formula 1 which is supposed to be the "pinnacle" of racing but then you have lower series like GP2 with much slower cars... less driver skill yet produce a more entertaining product.

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01-03-2014, 10:30 AM
  #33
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So sad to to here. Now I never thought women would play in the nhl or anything like that. But I did think a few of them could hang with some of the lower nhl players and I def thought they could hang at an ahl level. I never knew about them playing highschool boys teams and sometimes losing. Oh well I don't think there will be a big womens league ever. I'm surprised the wnba is still going, I don't know anyone that watches that.
The swedish national womens football(soccer) team which is one of the best in the world (top 3ish), gets crushed by Swedish 16 year old boys that plays with 1 less player. I also remember one of the Williams sisters saying she would probably not crack top 100 in mens tennis.

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01-04-2014, 02:41 AM
  #34
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The swedish national womens football(soccer) team which is one of the best in the world (top 3ish), gets crushed by Swedish 16 year old boys that plays with 1 less player. I also remember one of the Williams sisters saying she would probably not crack top 100 in mens tennis.
You're crushing my dreams! Haha just kidding. I just never realized that their skill level was that much lower.

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01-04-2014, 03:26 AM
  #35
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You're crushing my dreams! Haha just kidding. I just never realized that their skill level was that much lower.
This is the list of games the Canadian Women's National team has played while preparing for Sochi.

http://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/Tea...ule/Exhibition

Aside from a few international friendlies. They played almost all of their games against the AMHL

The skill level is truly nowhere close at this point

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01-04-2014, 03:28 AM
  #36
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The swedish national womens football(soccer) team which is one of the best in the world (top 3ish), gets crushed by Swedish 16 year old boys that plays with 1 less player. I also remember one of the Williams sisters saying she would probably not crack top 100 in mens tennis.
Exactly. Like I've said, the fact that the best women's hockey teams get crushed against teenage boys is not a valid argument as a similar comparison could be made with every single sport.

Karsten Braasch, a male tennis player, defeated Serena Williams 6-1 and Venus Williams 6-2, even though he was ranked #203 in the ATP Rankings and was notorious for his usage of excessive usage of cigarettes and alcohol. I believe he said the sisters would not even be ranked in the Top 500, or something along those lines.

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01-04-2014, 04:31 AM
  #37
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Exactly. Like I've said, the fact that the best women's hockey teams get crushed against teenage boys is not a valid argument as a similar comparison could be made with every single sport.
I think it matters if it's indicative of the product not holding up on its own in terms of entertainment value. Like I said, tennis can still be fun to watch with women or pairs, they put on a good show. How entertaining is second tier women's hockey? (that is, non-team canada/usa gold medal match ups, but actual league play with the talent pool diluted)

We're now talking about women aren't Olympians even, who are significantly worse than those high school 16 year olds.

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Karsten Braasch, a male tennis player, defeated Serena Williams 6-1 and Venus Williams 6-2, even though he was ranked #203 in the ATP Rankings and was notorious for his usage of excessive usage of cigarettes and alcohol. I believe he said the sisters would not even be ranked in the Top 500, or something along those lines.
close, she lowered her challenge to 350th overall and then never accepted the challenge

Quote:
"Apparently, after the game, Serena and Venus immediately told the press they wanted to challenge a male player again. This time they revised the ranking of the man they wanted to face, to 350 in the world. I informed the journalist who told me this that in the next week I was set to lose a lot of ATP points and drop down to 350 in the rankings. I told him that if Venus and Serena waited just one week they could challenge me all over again!

That never came about"

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01-04-2014, 12:53 PM
  #38
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Allow the top women's level to check and it could be just as entertaining as watching men.

Lower level men are still entertaining to watch, I watched every Great Britain game in the U20 Div1B and it was exciting and I enjoyed it very much despite the obvious lower talent level. I've officiated at every level of hockey over here in GB except the professional Elite league, and have seen many exciting games at all age groups and adult levels when the games were competitive, and I enjoyed some of the junior games more than some semi-professional ones.

I think if you add checking to the top levels of women's hockey there is no reason it could not be exciting like the lower levels of men and boy's hockey.

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01-04-2014, 11:15 PM
  #39
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And if they could have all the top womens players in the same league, it would be a better league.

The CWHL if far from as good product as it has potential to be. And like boris4c said earlier:

Quote:
If you take a look at Canada's roster at the 2013 IIHF Women's World Championship, 17 of the 23 players were in the CWHL and also 8/23 from the USA but the majority of them are in the NCAA which is not a professional league.
If CWHL would be the very best they must have all the best Swedish, Finnish, Russian, Canadian, American, Czech etc. players in the league. Just like the NHL.

If we take away all the Europeans from the NHL that league would be much weaker. So of course if we put all the best womens players in one league this one would be much better also.

If it should only be 5 or 10 teams I don't know. The less teams the higher the level of play will be of course.

And for me it doesn't matter if this league is located in Russia, Finland or Canada etc., but I believe Canada is the best possible market for this. And since they already have WCHL which seems to be a pretty good product, they should try to make it better. Maybe even change the name to WNHL and put one team in one nothern city in the USA.

And like I said, if the women could earn a decent amount of money, like a normal job kind of salary, this would encourage women to continue to play and even some to take hockey more seriously and see it as a career.

Or at least as a start that they can get some kind of salary, because today they mostly play for free yes? Like Chinese hockey haha.

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01-05-2014, 03:04 AM
  #40
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the issue is where do you put the teams, they definitely can't compete with the NHL for market share, they probably can't compete with the CHL, so you would need to place the teams outside of that or hope enough people are interested in the big cities. Lots of women show up to watch the women's teams in the Olympics but that doesn't translate to anything else. From a market point of view it just doesn't seem like it would work

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01-05-2014, 11:21 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by robwangjing View Post
And if they could have all the top womens players in the same league, it would be a better league.

The CWHL if far from as good product as it has potential to be. And like boris4c said earlier:



If CWHL would be the very best they must have all the best Swedish, Finnish, Russian, Canadian, American, Czech etc. players in the league. Just like the NHL.

If we take away all the Europeans from the NHL that league would be much weaker. So of course if we put all the best womens players in one league this one would be much better also.

If it should only be 5 or 10 teams I don't know. The less teams the higher the level of play will be of course.

And for me it doesn't matter if this league is located in Russia, Finland or Canada etc., but I believe Canada is the best possible market for this. And since they already have WCHL which seems to be a pretty good product, they should try to make it better. Maybe even change the name to WNHL and put one team in one nothern city in the USA.

And like I said, if the women could earn a decent amount of money, like a normal job kind of salary, this would encourage women to continue to play and even some to take hockey more seriously and see it as a career.

Or at least as a start that they can get some kind of salary, because today they mostly play for free yes? Like Chinese hockey haha.
Did you ever watch womens olympic hockey? If not, it's as freaking boring as watching paint dry on a wet day when you know it won't even dry.

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01-05-2014, 05:56 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by robwangjing View Post
And if they could have all the top womens players in the same league, it would be a better league.

The CWHL if far from as good product as it has potential to be. And like boris4c said earlier:



If CWHL would be the very best they must have all the best Swedish, Finnish, Russian, Canadian, American, Czech etc. players in the league. Just like the NHL.

If we take away all the Europeans from the NHL that league would be much weaker. So of course if we put all the best womens players in one league this one would be much better also.

If it should only be 5 or 10 teams I don't know. The less teams the higher the level of play will be of course.

And for me it doesn't matter if this league is located in Russia, Finland or Canada etc., but I believe Canada is the best possible market for this. And since they already have WCHL which seems to be a pretty good product, they should try to make it better. Maybe even change the name to WNHL and put one team in one nothern city in the USA.

And like I said, if the women could earn a decent amount of money, like a normal job kind of salary, this would encourage women to continue to play and even some to take hockey more seriously and see it as a career.

Or at least as a start that they can get some kind of salary, because today they mostly play for free yes? Like Chinese hockey haha.
The painful reality here is that Canada's "C" team would all still be much better players than any Finns, Swedes, or Czechs.

If there was a women's pro league, it would have to be small-scale, with small markets, and an emphasis on North American players. Because, quite simply, North American players are heads and tails above anyone else in the women's game right now.

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01-06-2014, 12:19 AM
  #43
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Did you ever watch womens olympic hockey? If not, it's as freaking boring as watching paint dry on a wet day when you know it won't even dry.
No I haven't, only watched the women's WC in Haerbin. I had a great time there.

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Originally Posted by DemonsOnIce96 View Post
The painful reality here is that Canada's "C" team would all still be much better players than any Finns, Swedes, or Czechs.

If there was a women's pro league, it would have to be small-scale, with small markets, and an emphasis on North American players. Because, quite simply, North American players are heads and tails above anyone else in the women's game right now.
Yes this is true, I agree, but a few European women must be on a higher/comparable level, right? And if it would only mean a few players from the European top nations it would still improve the league.

Because if we look at the men's hockey teams. If we compare Canada to Norway or Denmark for example, they would not even be comparable with Canada's "C" team, but still a few on both of Norway and Denmark are good enough to play in the NHL/KHL. So if only 1-5 each from team Finland, Russia etc. can play in WCHL it would improve that league.

And it would give the CWHL more media coverage from all over the world. And in this point of view, even if the media coverage is very small it's also better than today. And with better media coverage comes better sponsors. And even here, if the sponsors are small/bad they should be better than those we would see today.

Just the small improvements of a women's league would be good. It doesn't need to change over a night.

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01-06-2014, 11:59 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DemonsOnIce96 View Post
The painful reality here is that Canada's "C" team would all still be much better players than any Finns, Swedes, or Czechs.

If there was a women's pro league, it would have to be small-scale, with small markets, and an emphasis on North American players. Because, quite simply, North American players are heads and tails above anyone else in the women's game right now.
I disagree with the idea that there aren't any good Finns or Swedes. There aren't enough to field an entire European team, but there are enough good players to help fill out a 6 team league. The Finns especially have some very good players, including the top goaltender in women's hockey. A good number of players are playing DI NCAA hockey in the US, which is helping to make them better. They in turn take that experience back to their home countries and try to improve their teams. Finland beat the US team at the 4 Nations tournament back in November, so they are a team to watch in the Olympics this year.

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01-06-2014, 02:20 PM
  #45
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I'd watch. In fact I just watched a CWHL game (Montreal - Boston) two days ago. It was streamed live, it had play-by-play commentary and intermission interviews with players.

I would watch again (in fact I will).
http://www.cwhl.ca/view/cwhl/-6746/game-streaming

I never get the "it's not NHL level of play, therefore it's bad". Following that logic there wouldn't be interest in the WJC, the minors or Junior leagues.

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01-07-2014, 07:03 AM
  #46
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This "no checking" is obsolete rule and must go. Women compete in all variants of martial arts but are to fragile to hit and being hit in hockey.

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01-08-2014, 08:07 AM
  #47
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There's been a lot of machist stuff written on this topic... sad...

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01-08-2014, 04:12 PM
  #48
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There's been a lot of machist stuff written on this topic... sad...
You can cry sexism all day long. No rational person is going to buy it. I very much enjoy watching Canada versus the US; but, I struggle to get through a women's college game or an CWHL game. The skill simply isn't there yet.

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01-10-2014, 02:16 PM
  #49
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This "no checking" is obsolete rule and must go. Women compete in all variants of martial arts but are to fragile to hit and being hit in hockey.
Only USA and Canada could go to-to-toe if checking was allowed. Other countries would not be able to complete matches with full rosters against those countries. The size differences are too great. That's the unfortunate fact which many Finnish women players have said. The physical edge is far too great at the moment for the North Americans (because they can train like pros on and off the ice).

Finland's goalie Noora Räty (one of, if not the best goalie in the world) said she was all set to play in Russia and get paid well (a couple of Finn already play there) but the Russian league suddenly banned all foreign goalies from the league (to get their goalies playing time ahead of the Olympics). She said that if she can't play pro hockey, she'll quit. So if they don't change that rule for next season in Russia, women's game will lose one of it's best players.

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01-10-2014, 02:36 PM
  #50
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what's the point of having women's competition in the olympics if it's too 'unfair' to have normal rules? If you have to handicap 2 teams just so the rest can get blown out regardless, what does it prove?

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