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Tor / Pitts

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Old
12-28-2013, 09:02 AM
  #1
dannyboy8920
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Tor / Pitts

Raymond + Fraser + Ashton
for
Orpik

Kulemin + Fraser + 3rd
for
Orpik


Last edited by dannyboy8920: 12-28-2013 at 09:33 AM.
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Old
12-28-2013, 09:05 AM
  #2
SeaOfBlue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Raymond + Fraser
for
Orpik

Kulemin + Fraser
for
Opik + 3rd
I don't know if they'd do that. Also, I'd only do the first one, and only if we can't trade Liles for Gleason.

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Old
12-28-2013, 09:08 AM
  #3
Vokouna Maattata
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Don't want Fraser. Orpik isn't being moved. Both bad offers. Just assuming he would be available, it would have to be Kulemin and a 2nd for Orpik.

Niskanen for Kulemin is what the Pens would do. Orpik isn't being moved, and especially not for crappy offers like that.

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Old
12-28-2013, 09:15 AM
  #4
dannyboy8920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmError29 View Post
Don't want Fraser. Orpik isn't being moved. Both bad offers. Just assuming he would be available, it would have to be Kulemin and a 2nd for Orpik.

Niskanen for Kulemin is what the Pens would do. Orpik isn't being moved, and especially not for crappy offers like that.
Naw, we aren't attaching a pick to Kulemin, nor are we moving him for Niskanen.

This isn't overvaluing Nik; we aren't going to overpay while giving you someone we see thriving in a better system.

UFA status shouldn't be a worry with him, once in your system I can see him easily signing a sweetheart contract/ so that really shouldn't be a deter to any deal.

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Old
12-28-2013, 09:18 AM
  #5
Ogrezilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmError29 View Post
Don't want Fraser. Orpik isn't being moved. Both bad offers. Just assuming he would be available, it would have to be Kulemin and a 2nd for Orpik.

Niskanen for Kulemin is what the Pens would do. Orpik isn't being moved, and especially not for crappy offers like that.
I would much rather move Orpik than Niskanen. I wouldn't really want Fraser, but I would absolutely do a deal around Orpik and Kulemin.

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Old
12-28-2013, 09:19 AM
  #6
Vokouna Maattata
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Naw, we aren't attaching a pick to Kulemin, nor are we moving him for Niskanen.

This isn't overvaluing Nik; we aren't going to overpay while giving you someone we see thriving in a better system.

UFA status shouldn't be a worry with him, once in your system I can see him easily signing a sweetheart contract/ so that really shouldn't be a deter to any deal.
The thing is you are overvaluing Kulemin. He wouldn't bring back a D like Orpik, especially with the Pens adding. He's a 3rd line defensive F at this point. A #4/#5 D like Niskanen is what he's worth. We aren't going to lose a trade just to prevent the Leafs from overpaying. Orpik is more valuable than Kulemin by a fair margin. If he's moved straight up for a D, it's going to be Niskanen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I would much rather move Orpik than Niskanen. I wouldn't really want Fraser, but I would absolutely do a deal around Orpik and Kulemin.
Niskanen is a lot more redundant with the NHL ready D than Orpik. When was the last time a contender moved a veteran top-4 D with cup experience?

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Old
12-28-2013, 09:21 AM
  #7
Ogrezilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmError29 View Post
The thing is you are overvaluing Kulemin. He wouldn't bring back a D like Orpik, especially with the Pens adding. He's a 3rd line defensive F at this point. A #4/#5 D like Niskanen is what he's worth. We aren't going to lose a trade just to prevent the Leafs from overpaying. Orpik is more valuable than Kulemin by a fair margin. If he's moved straight up for a D, it's going to be Niskanen.
I really think Niskanen and Orpik are pretty close in value right now. Orpik has history, experience and name recognition, but Niskanen is the better player at this point.

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12-28-2013, 09:22 AM
  #8
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who do you want from the leafs for dupres

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Old
12-28-2013, 09:24 AM
  #9
Vokouna Maattata
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I really think Niskanen and Orpik are pretty close in value right now. Orpik has history, experience and name recognition, but Niskanen is the better player at this point.
Orpik's experience and history is what makes him more valuable. Niskanen may be playing better right now, but Orpik has proven to be a playoff tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notdoneyet View Post
who do you want from the leafs for dupres
Is this supposed to be Despres or Dupuis? I literally can't tell. One tore his ACL, and the other is only available for a top-6 F.

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Old
12-28-2013, 09:26 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmError29 View Post
Niskanen is a lot more redundant with the NHL ready D than Orpik. When was the last time a contender moved a veteran top-4 D with cup experience?
Orpik is our 4th best left d-man. He shouldn't be playing over Despres regardless of if he's traded or not. He will be, but he shouldn't be. We would become a better team simply by getting rid of Orpik (because of Maatta and Despres) regardless of return.

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Old
12-28-2013, 09:29 AM
  #11
dannyboy8920
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Top 6 F for Depres is quite the overpayment. Unless you are looking for someone like Raymond+. (which you aren't i know. Pens fans want Kane)

He really isn't that good to be asking for a top6 proven players, even if more is added. Not the centerpiece any team would likely be looking for.

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Old
12-28-2013, 09:30 AM
  #12
Liferleafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmError29 View Post
Don't want Fraser. Orpik isn't being moved. Both bad offers. Just assuming he would be available, it would have to be Kulemin and a 2nd for Orpik.

Niskanen for Kulemin is what the Pens would do. Orpik isn't being moved, and especially not for crappy offers like that.
I get the offers may be crappy, but offering Nisky for Kulemin is just as bad.

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12-28-2013, 09:35 AM
  #13
Vokouna Maattata
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I get the offers may be crappy, but offering Nisky for Kulemin is just as bad.
There's some massive overrating of Kulemin here. He's a 3rd line grinder. His value is a #4/#5 D. So Niskanen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Top 6 F for Depres is quite the overpayment. Unless you are looking for someone like Raymond+. (which you aren't i know. Pens fans want Kane)

He really isn't that good to be asking for a top6 proven players, even if more is added. Not the centerpiece any team would likely be looking for.
Uh do you even know who Despres is? It would be a package of Despres+, but don't act like he's some scrub with no potential.

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12-28-2013, 09:38 AM
  #14
SeaOfBlue
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I would do Kulemin and Holzer for Niskanen and Ruopp. The difference in value between Niskanen and Kulemin is minor, and this evens it up for us a little more. Plus, Niskanen can fill a major need.

I don't want Orpik. Too expensive, and Pittsburgh isn't moving him like I suspected. Just go after Gleason with Liles. One overpriced contract for another, except one we can use more effectively than the other and fills a major need (the same goes for the other side, so it's perfect).

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Old
12-28-2013, 09:49 AM
  #15
Dragao6
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I just read in another post that Dion is a better D then Letang, defensively and offensively. Would Pen fans accept this trade??? LOL

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12-28-2013, 09:55 AM
  #16
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Top 6 F for Depres is quite the overpayment. Unless you are looking for someone like Raymond+. (which you aren't i know. Pens fans want Kane)

He really isn't that good to be asking for a top6 proven players, even if more is added. Not the centerpiece any team would likely be looking for.
Ya, because 6'4 220 lb blueliners who use their size, skate well and are offensively gifted are a dime a dozen.

It's hard to imagine teams wanting a player like that.

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12-28-2013, 09:55 AM
  #17
dannyboy8920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmError29 View Post
There's some massive overrating of Kulemin here. He's a 3rd line grinder. His value is a #4/#5 D. So Niskanen.



Uh do you even know who Despres is? It would be a package of Despres+, but don't act like he's some scrub with no potential.
Never once said he was a scrub. However, I for one wouldn't be happy to move a legit top 6(Kess/Lupul/JvR) for Depres +.

Maybe you can find someone who will, but I don't see too many GMs lining up to get rid of their high end forwards.

Quote:
Ya, because 6'4 220 lb blueliners who use their size, skate well and are offensively gifted are a dime a dozen.
Quote me where i said he is small, bad skater or a dime a dozen?

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Old
12-28-2013, 09:55 AM
  #18
Dying Alive
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I wish they would ban Leafs/Pens threads that involve Kulemin.

Nobody expects an elite top 6 forward for Despres. A similarly skilled/aged prospect with years of team control left would be preferable.

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12-28-2013, 09:57 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
Top 6 F for Depres is quite the overpayment. Unless you are looking for someone like Raymond+. (which you aren't i know. Pens fans want Kane)

He really isn't that good to be asking for a top6 proven players, even if more is added. Not the centerpiece any team would likely be looking for.
Despres would be used in a package to land that type of player. He is ready for top 4 duty right now. And before we signed Scuderi, and Maatta came along, he was pegged to be Letang's partner.

Maybe another roster D-man for a forward+lesser D-man we like. Or a package of futures. Now that we have cap space, there are more options.

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Old
12-28-2013, 09:58 AM
  #20
Vokouna Maattata
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Since the OP has been updated, I'd do the 2nd one if they take out Fraser (so Kulemin and a 3rd for Orpik). Don't need him with Bortuzzo and Engelland on the team.

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12-28-2013, 09:59 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dying Alive View Post
I wish they would ban Leafs/Pens threads that involve Kulemin.

Nobody expects an elite top 6 forward for Despres. A similarly skilled/aged prospect with years if team control left would be preferable.
Take a look at the post below!

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12-28-2013, 10:01 AM
  #22
Dying Alive
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Quote:
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Take a look at the post below!
Well if you can show me where it says he'll be the centerpiece of the deal I'll agree with you. Otherwise you're making assumptions nobody has actually said.

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Old
12-28-2013, 10:11 AM
  #23
dannyboy8920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmError29 View Post
Since the OP has been updated, I'd do the 2nd one if they take out Fraser (so Kulemin and a 3rd for Orpik). Don't need him with Bortuzzo and Engelland on the team.
I bit the bullet and updated. Kule + 3rd aint too bad - Kinda wanted to move a body in Fraser though.

He isn't a bad stability guy when needed.

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12-28-2013, 10:31 AM
  #24
Ogrezilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
I bit the bullet and updated. Kule + 3rd aint too bad - Kinda wanted to move a body in Fraser though.

He isn't a bad stability guy when needed.
its not that we don't see the value in Fraser, but the whole point of this is that we have too many d-men and we'd be opening a roster spot for Despres.

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12-28-2013, 10:43 AM
  #25
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Despres doesn't fit in a trade to Toronto. Niskanen and/or Orpik do.

I would do Kulemin+Fraser+3rd for Orpik. Mostly in hopes of then flipping Fraser for a pick which is then used in a package with a dman prospect for 1RW.

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