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Female Marines Not Required to Meet Physical Fitness Standard

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Old
12-30-2013, 08:58 AM
  #101
Troy McClure
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Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
Except that's not the case. They tried to use the excuse that the makers of the female cover are going out of business so they decided to change both. The makers of the male cover are still in business but that didn't seem to matter. Also what they forget to say is that outside groups having been pushing for a change in the cover and uniform for years to no avail and they saw they shot and took it and failed. Now everyone is getting the male version.
What outside groups are you talking about?

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12-30-2013, 09:00 AM
  #102
Ilkka Sinisalo
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
What outside groups are you talking about?
NAACP, ACORN, ACLU and MoveOn.org.

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12-30-2013, 09:03 AM
  #103
Doppler Drift
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Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
What outside groups are you talking about?
He is probably going to blame the Gays. Or NPR, PBS, NAACP, etc.

Drats, beaten to the punch.

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Old
12-30-2013, 06:31 PM
  #104
DoyleG
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Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
The ones on the left are the one's they currently have the ones on the right are the proposed changes that were leaked then shot down:

The one on the far left looks more like the USMC cover that was used up to WW1.

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12-31-2013, 02:28 PM
  #105
Lost Horizons
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
I'm consistently amazed by the pettiness of some things that the right wing in America manages to be ******** about. I guess with a 24 hour news network and God knows how many loudmouths on the radio, they really get desperate for stuff that will rile up the morons.
Except you know it was the Marines themselves that were pissed off at the proposed changes. Maybe if you actually knew any you would know that.


Last edited by Lost Horizons: 12-31-2013 at 02:48 PM.
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12-31-2013, 07:06 PM
  #106
Ilkka Sinisalo
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Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
Except you know it was the Marines themselves that were pissed off at the proposed changes. Maybe if you actually knew any you would know that.
Sorry, I didn't know you were a Marine.

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12-31-2013, 07:11 PM
  #107
Doppler Drift
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Sorry, I didn't know you were a Marine.

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12-31-2013, 08:13 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
The change isn't coming from the Marines though. It's being pushed for from outside groups who want the Marines to be more inclusive and to be more representative of the country. The Marines have had the same hat for almost 100 years. Why mess with what works. and like I said it may be a silly little thing to you but to a Marine their cover is a big deal.
Who cares where it's coming from? If there is a good reason to change it, then change it. If there isn't then don't. They didn't change it did they? Good they can wear their cute little hats for ever. Maybe they can go extra traditional and wear this, the hat of a real man



Quote:
The point remains the same though. The change isn't coming from the inside it's from the outside. Like I said if the NHL wanted the Red Wings to change their logo to be more attractive and to appeal to more female fans players,alumni,fans etc would get pretty pissed at that. That was the reaction from the overwhelming majority of the marines at the proposed changes.
I don't care if the Red Wings change their logo. How stupid. Is this suppoosed to be some kind of gotcha statement that exposes my hypocrisy? You better try harder than that.

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Originally Posted by JaysCyYoung View Post
The Marines cover (it's a cover, not a hat) is iconic around the world. Why they would even think of ****ing with such an internationally-recognized symbol on the basis of creating more politically correct unisex anonymity is beyond me. I'm Canadian and it's a well-known aspect of their look as far as I'm concerned.
It's a cover not a hat? Who gives a ****? Why do they need to keep the same hat forever? Times change, it's a hat.

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Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, Airmen, etc. all take pride in their uniforms and traditions. It's part of the Esprit de Corps. Something like a uniform change may seem minor or superfluous to you, but it doesn't to them. It would be like dumping regimental mascots, altering the flags of specific units, and erasing their battle honours.


When the US Army goes back to these threads, then I will give a **** about what hat the marines wear.

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Old
12-31-2013, 08:18 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
Except you know it was the Marines themselves that were pissed off at the proposed changes. Maybe if you actually knew any you would know that.
So what? The Marines are there to defend the nation, not to be fashion critics. Buck up and wear the uniform you're given.

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Old
01-03-2014, 10:04 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
Surprise, surprise. Even though the liberals swear it would never ever happen, women can't pass the marine physical so the marines changed the rules for them. It's always the same story. First, "Women should be given 'equal opportunity'". Then, when they all fail, the test is 'sexist' because women can't pass. So they change the rules. Over and over and over again. If you are in a politically correct category, the liberals will cheat for you and claim it's their right to do so.


http://cnsnews.com/news/article/barb...d-do-3-pullups


[I](CNSNews.com) -- Females in the Marine Corps will not have to meet the physical fitness standard--set to go into effect as of January --of being able to do at least three pull-ups, the Corps quietly announced on social media.

Unlike their female counterparts, male Marines have long been required to do at least 3 pullups.

The Marines have postponed the deadline for female Marines to be able to do at least three pullups for at least another year.

Currently, “women aren’t able to make the minimum standard of three pull-ups,” Marine spokesman Capt. Eric Flanagan told CNSNews.com. Fifty-five percent of female recruits tested at the end of boot camp were unable to do three pull-ups (1 percent of male recruits also failed).
Canadian Forces also have different standards for women and older personnel under the Expres test, although that is being phased out for the Force test, I think.

I don't think it's that big a deal. Most service members nowadays are admin and support, rather than combat arms. Combat arms guys and gals generally have a higher physical fitness level anyway, as field courses and fitness training will force their bodies into shape anyway.

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Old
01-03-2014, 05:17 PM
  #111
LSnow
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Ahahahahaha 3 pull ups. Is there another test where to pass you have to be able to run for 15 meters, or if they are really strict jump 10 cm off the ground.

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01-03-2014, 05:26 PM
  #112
Ilkka Sinisalo
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3 pull ups is not really that easy, if you're talking about having to go from fully outstretched arms to getting your chin over the bar. You have to pull up your entire body weight using just your arms, more specifically your biceps.

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01-03-2014, 07:21 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
3 pull ups is not really that easy, if you're talking about having to go from fully outstretched arms to getting your chin over the bar. You have to pull up your entire body weight using just your arms, more specifically your biceps.
That is more of a chin-up (palms facing toward you). Those are generally easier for most than a true pull-up (which is palms facing away) and requires a stronger back.

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Old
01-03-2014, 10:51 PM
  #114
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Chin-ups are significantly easier than pull-ups due to the bicep factor that invictus mentioned.

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Old
01-03-2014, 10:56 PM
  #115
Ilkka Sinisalo
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I feel like I'd have an easier time with chin-ups, mostly because swimming really works back and triceps (and shoulders) but does next to nothing for biceps.

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01-04-2014, 09:27 AM
  #116
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idk wat im talking about delete this


Last edited by Oobz: 01-04-2014 at 09:37 AM.
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01-04-2014, 10:07 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
I feel like I'd have an easier time with chin-ups, mostly because swimming really works back and triceps (and shoulders) but does next to nothing for biceps.
Interesting. I rarely swim and was never good at it, so I guess I wouldn't know what muscles it is best for

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01-04-2014, 11:59 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Yoshimitsu View Post
Pullups aren't a good measure of physical fitness nor are they a good measure of any of the things a soldier has to do. They should get rid of them and come up with a new metric for both men and women.
except that pull ups isn't the only measure. it also entails a 3 mile run under 28 minutes and 100 sit ups in 2 minutes. your average person in america nowadays wouldn't be able to complete that.

if you want women in combat roles, they need to be able to hold up against their male counterparts in terms of fitness. the enemy won't give a damn if they're female and aren't going to give them a break as such. if a female can't drag her male buddy to safety under fire because she isn't strong enough, that's where the real problems occur. when in combat, politics and all that other ****, go right out of the window. until women prove that they can hang with the boys, they shouldn't be outside the wire in combat. period.

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01-04-2014, 12:13 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Vyacheslav View Post
Perhaps the requirement that people need to be able to do three pull ups is outdated? How many pullups does it take to be able to lay into an enemy with your assault rifle?
because physical strength and endurance doesn't matter anymore, right? its not like humping with 100 pound pack on your back for miles on end, wearing a flak jacket and kevlar helmet for hours at a time in 100+ degree heat, carrying your wounded buddy to an evac, or lugging heavy machine guns, copious amounts of ammo or mortar systems around is outdated or anything. Marines have only been doing that for the past decade in the middle east.

the amount of ignorance displayed in this thread regarding fitness required for the strain of combat is astounding. as a veteran and Marine, it kind of makes me sick.

if you don't know what you're talking about, don't say anything at all. spewing your ignorance on a subject that you have little knowledge about just makes you look an uninformed ass to those that do.

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01-04-2014, 03:02 PM
  #120
Vyacheslav
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Originally Posted by Doctor Drej View Post
because physical strength and endurance doesn't matter anymore, right?
Yep that's exactly what I said. You schooled me there bro.

/another poor strawman, beaten to a lifeless pulp...

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01-04-2014, 03:10 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Doctor Drej View Post
except that pull ups isn't the only measure. it also entails a 3 mile run under 28 minutes and 100 sit ups in 2 minutes. your average person in america nowadays wouldn't be able to complete that.
As far as I can tell, the pullup test is the only test being changed. Then again, CNS news is written and edited by retards so the original article could be completely wrong.

Quote:
if you want women in combat roles, they need to be able to hold up against their male counterparts in terms of fitness. the enemy won't give a damn if they're female and aren't going to give them a break as such. if a female can't drag her male buddy to safety under fire because she isn't strong enough, that's where the real problems occur. when in combat, politics and all that other ****, go right out of the window. until women prove that they can hang with the boys, they shouldn't be outside the wire in combat. period.
There's pretty much no correlation between how many pullups you can do and how much weight you can drag. They're completely different movements utilizing mostly different muscles.

Again, pullups are a piss poor measure of strength, especially strength in the way you're describing it. But don't worry, you were a Marine so you know everything.

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01-04-2014, 03:23 PM
  #122
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Chin-ups have no bearing on whether anyone - male or female - can be an effective soldier. If you think otherwise, you're an idiot. Full stop.

A far better gauge of battlefield ability would be to put recruits through an obstacle course analogue that requires various kinds of common movements/activities that a soldier in the field would have to undertake. That means wearing gear, running, walking, jogging, crawling in it. Kicking in doors, climbing over things, rappelling down things, clearing rooms/streets of hostiles with simunitions, etc. All of which could be scaled according to the particular rank/specialty of the people being tested (an infantryman would have different requirements than a cook).

Maybe the military does this already, I don't know. If they don't, they should, since that's a far better way to gauge battlefield readiness than a series of gym exercises.

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01-04-2014, 03:45 PM
  #123
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Why are pull-ups useless?

It's a very similar movement to pulling yourself over a wall. It doesn't seem ridiculous that a US marine should be able to do 3 pull-ups.


Last edited by Chip Chipperson: 01-04-2014 at 03:50 PM.
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Old
01-04-2014, 04:09 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by rattler280 View Post
Why are pull-ups useless?

It's a very similar movement to pulling yourself over a wall. It doesn't seem ridiculous that a US marine should be able to do 3 pull-ups.
How often must a Marine pull themselves up over a wall indoors without wearing gear? Or without the aide of squadmates?

Again, the best kind of test would be one that simulates real combat conditions as closely/safely as possible. A gym exercise is far from that, to the point of uselessness.

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01-04-2014, 04:20 PM
  #125
Vyacheslav
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Originally Posted by rattler280 View Post
Why are pull-ups useless?

It's a very similar movement to pulling yourself over a wall. It doesn't seem ridiculous that a US marine should be able to do 3 pull-ups.
I'm not even going so far as to say they're useless, but is it really so important that someone who is willing and otherwise able to be a soldier is not allowed to be because of it?

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