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Old
01-05-2014, 09:09 PM
  #876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Robert Hagg gets beaten on a play that NHL'er Hampus Lindholm probably doesn't get beaten on, and that is the difference of this game.

The 2 best teams played for gold, so you could chop it down to that one play.

Canada with our plumber picks ie. Frederik Gauthier, Kerby Rychel, Adam Pelech ect...deserved not to medal, I hope this and the memory of Nagano will be a lesson for Hockey Canada to bring our best players each and everytime.

At the beginning of the tournament I was willing to give Sutter the benefit of the doubt unless we had trouble scoring and ultimately lost. Team Canada did not bring enough scorers, they didn't bring our best players, Cherry is right. How Domi was left off of this team is a mystery.

This tournament I will always remember this team as one of our weakest that we sent oversees to represent our country.
This is one thing that has pissed me off about the Canadian selection boards both pro and JR. They have an abundance of talent yet choose on numerous occasions to not always take the best advantage of having such a deep pool of talent.

I have always though take the best and forget about the rest, there is no point imo on selecting specialty guys in a tourney like the WJC or the Olympics, you take the best of the best if that means you have a guy who's top 3 playing bottom 6 roll then so be it. You don't need a shutdown line if you are rolling 4 lines consisting of 1st line players imo. Because for the most part our top end talents are responsible enough defensively to not really have to worry about it. And it's the other teams who should be worrying about shutting us down, not the other way around.

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01-05-2014, 11:15 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by CrankuptheSnakes View Post
Been saying it a long time. Morrison has to be looked at a lot more critically.
Morrison isn't very good. The virtues of a good scouting staff pay off pretty quickly, like Anaheim, Chicago, even Ottawa.

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01-06-2014, 12:00 AM
  #878
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This is one thing that has pissed me off about the Canadian selection boards both pro and JR. They have an abundance of talent yet choose on numerous occasions to not always take the best advantage of having such a deep pool of talent.

I have always though take the best and forget about the rest, there is no point imo on selecting specialty guys in a tourney like the WJC or the Olympics, you take the best of the best if that means you have a guy who's top 3 playing bottom 6 roll then so be it. You don't need a shutdown line if you are rolling 4 lines consisting of 1st line players imo. Because for the most part our top end talents are responsible enough defensively to not really have to worry about it. And it's the other teams who should be worrying about shutting us down, not the other way around.
I can't disagree, our shutdown line in Vancouver in 2010 could also score. Why didn't we incorporate this into our team at the World Juniors, instead of picking 3 guys that couldn't score if their lives depended on it.

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01-06-2014, 12:21 AM
  #879
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Morrison isn't very good. The virtues of a good scouting staff pay off pretty quickly, like Anaheim, Chicago, even Ottawa.
Yup.

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01-06-2014, 12:38 AM
  #880
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Our 2nd round selection matt finn is going to be a beauty. He is staying healthy and putting up a near PPG on a great team.

Cant believe he fell where he did. Burke had him 21. Some scouts had him top 20 i believe.

Also happens to be buds with another good young D man of ours Stuart Percy.
They are very similar though IMO Finn has higher offensive potential.

Our D is a wreck and these are the players that we are missing
Calm and collected under pressure. Good puck moving and mobility. Good in own zone but will also join the attack when alright to do so.

Love these 2.

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01-06-2014, 07:31 AM
  #881
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Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
Our 2nd round selection Matt Finn is going to be a beauty. He is staying healthy and putting up a near PPG on a great team.

Cant believe he fell where he did. Burke had him 21. Some scouts had him top 20 i believe.

Also happens to be buds with another good young D man of ours Stuart Percy.
They are very similar though IMO Finn has higher offensive potential.

Our D is a wreck and these are the players that we are missing
Calm and collected under pressure. Good puck moving and mobility. Good in own zone but will also join the attack when alright to do so.

Love these 2.
How far away are they from making the Leafs? 3 to 5 years?

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01-06-2014, 08:28 AM
  #882
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Morrison isn't very good. The virtues of a good scouting staff pay off pretty quickly, like Anaheim, Chicago, even Ottawa.
How about San Jose?

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01-06-2014, 08:46 AM
  #883
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Originally Posted by Joey24 View Post
This is one thing that has pissed me off about the Canadian selection boards both pro and JR. They have an abundance of talent yet choose on numerous occasions to not always take the best advantage of having such a deep pool of talent.

I have always though take the best and forget about the rest, there is no point imo on selecting specialty guys in a tourney like the WJC or the Olympics, you take the best of the best if that means you have a guy who's top 3 playing bottom 6 roll then so be it. You don't need a shutdown line if you are rolling 4 lines consisting of 1st line players imo. Because for the most part our top end talents are responsible enough defensively to not really have to worry about it. And it's the other teams who should be worrying about shutting us down, not the other way around.
The confusing thing to me, we did have some high end players this year who can play the shutdown role when needed. Laughton and Horvat as good examples.
Sutter barely used Gauthier, Rychel and Anderson in some games. With the number of top juniors we have, one of our strengths should be the ability to role 4 lines with all the available talent.

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Old
01-06-2014, 09:39 AM
  #884
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I can't disagree, our shutdown line in Vancouver in 2010 could also score. Why didn't we incorporate this into our team at the World Juniors, instead of picking 3 guys that couldn't score if their lives depended on it.
That's a little excessive considering Gauthier's provided key scoring for past Canadian international teams (just this past year in fact).

Overall I agree though. You want to bring a player that can protect leads on the team, great go do it. That's helpful when you actually have a lead to protect. That's a role Gauthier does well. That's what the whole point of a thirteenth forward is for.

But bringing a line of them? That's just dumb. Why not take players who can do both. I have no clue why they couldn't use Horvat and Laughton on the 4th line, bring some firepower on the upper lines, and let the team go crazy. Laughton and Horvat can play both sides of the game just fine. Let Gauthier go out there in key situations for the faceoffs and use him sparingly as the 13th forward. If he starts to click and get going offensively with them, great than he can keep playing. If he's just doing his role and nothing else, great than he's doing the job he's here for.

Hockey Canada has made some very weird decision in the past couple of years. It's this whole idea of "building a proper team" and "chemistry". Why not just bring the best players possible and let them run rampant over the competition. It's worked before, why not try it again.


Last edited by theIceWookie: 01-06-2014 at 09:45 AM.
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01-06-2014, 11:24 AM
  #885
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Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
Our 2nd round selection matt finn is going to be a beauty. He is staying healthy and putting up a near PPG on a great team.

Cant believe he fell where he did. Burke had him 21. Some scouts had him top 20 i believe.

Also happens to be buds with another good young D man of ours Stuart Percy.
They are very similar though IMO Finn has higher offensive potential.

Our D is a wreck and these are the players that we are missing
Calm and collected under pressure. Good puck moving and mobility. Good in own zone but will also join the attack when alright to do so.

Love these 2.
Not to pick on Matt Finn specifically, but when you're team drafting and development is as poor as ours, I'll have to wait and see with that selection. So many of our prospects don't even make it as good AHLers.

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01-06-2014, 11:37 AM
  #886
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How far away are they from making the Leafs? 3 to 5 years?
However long it takes.

Although Percy showed well in the few exhibition games this fall and wouldn't shock me if he saw a few games this year.

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01-06-2014, 11:40 AM
  #887
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Originally Posted by theIceWookie View Post
That's a little excessive considering Gauthier's provided key scoring for past Canadian international teams (just this past year in fact).

Overall I agree though. You want to bring a player that can protect leads on the team, great go do it. That's helpful when you actually have a lead to protect. That's a role Gauthier does well. That's what the whole point of a thirteenth forward is for.

But bringing a line of them? That's just dumb. Why not take players who can do both. I have no clue why they couldn't use Horvat and Laughton on the 4th line, bring some firepower on the upper lines, and let the team go crazy. Laughton and Horvat can play both sides of the game just fine. Let Gauthier go out there in key situations for the faceoffs and use him sparingly as the 13th forward. If he starts to click and get going offensively with them, great than he can keep playing. If he's just doing his role and nothing else, great than he's doing the job he's here for.

Hockey Canada has made some very weird decision in the past couple of years. It's this whole idea of "building a proper team" and "chemistry". Why not just bring the best players possible and let them run rampant over the competition. It's worked before, why not try it again.
The bizarre thing is that HC left off Brown when Brown has chemistry with McDavid - honestly, it is mind baffling how he wasn't there

IIRC, Domi plays with Horvat in London too doesn't he?

Finn should have been there too

Well said though, I don't mind the Gauthier selection - he was an ideal role player in certain situations, and if he was giving something more play him more

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Old
01-06-2014, 12:03 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by theIceWookie View Post
That's a little excessive considering Gauthier's provided key scoring for past Canadian international teams (just this past year in fact).

Overall I agree though. You want to bring a player that can protect leads on the team, great go do it. That's helpful when you actually have a lead to protect. That's a role Gauthier does well. That's what the whole point of a thirteenth forward is for.

But bringing a line of them? That's just dumb. Why not take players who can do both. I have no clue why they couldn't use Horvat and Laughton on the 4th line, bring some firepower on the upper lines, and let the team go crazy. Laughton and Horvat can play both sides of the game just fine. Let Gauthier go out there in key situations for the faceoffs and use him sparingly as the 13th forward. If he starts to click and get going offensively with them, great than he can keep playing. If he's just doing his role and nothing else, great than he's doing the job he's here for.

Hockey Canada has made some very weird decision in the past couple of years. It's this whole idea of "building a proper team" and "chemistry". Why not just bring the best players possible and let them run rampant over the competition. It's worked before, why not try it again.
I've said it before, and I'll repeat it. The interest, and popularity, of the World Junior Hockey tournament, among European fans, was in serious decline when Canada was winning it regularly (like 5 years in a row)!

I think the IIHF asked Hockey Canada to back off with winning the darn thing every year. That is why we're not really happy with the player selection we are all seeing. Too many of our BETTER players are being left off the team in order to give the other Countries a better chance to compete. I know that the other countries are also closing the gap talent wise, but, come on, we can't really say our BEST AVAILABLE players were being taken to this tournament the last few years!!!


Last edited by Al14: 01-06-2014 at 12:09 PM.
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Old
01-06-2014, 12:10 PM
  #889
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How about San Jose?
Tim Burke is the best scout IMO followed by Trevor Timmins.

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Old
01-06-2014, 12:17 PM
  #890
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Not to pick on Matt Finn specifically, but when you're team drafting and development is as poor as ours, I'll have to wait and see with that selection. So many of our prospects don't even make it as good AHLers.
Based off we don't have Benn or Datsyuk on our team?

I really get the impression some people expectation are just way too high when it comes to this. Over Morrison's tenure he's found NHLers.

Kulemin
Tlusty
Reimer
Gunnarsson
Frattin
Schenn
Stalberg
Hayes
Kadri

Then the guys who have played some games or are breaking in

D'Amigo
Komarov
Broll
Leivo


I haven't look over the league too thoroughly, But considering where most of them were picked(save for Schenn and Kadri) it's where mathematically if you look there's a decent chance you won't get an NHLer.

There's been two issues with the scouting I've had - One is the lack top 40 picks in his tenure(Morrison) due trading; Although in deals like the Bernier one it's understandable.

But the other probably more costly issue was Burke's emphasis on toughness and trying to match up against Boston via draft, Those players Biggs, Ross, Devane were probably never going to be ready to face the current edition of the Boston Bruins anyway.

Signs of that changing though seem to be there, The drafting of some one like Andreas Johnson points to a different philosophy in the draft room now.

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01-06-2014, 12:30 PM
  #891
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I think Tommie Bergman should be given the keys. I'm not sure if he would be up to it considering he's likely set scouting just in Sweden, but I love the way he can find talent. I guess that would change if he wasn't scouting one area alone.

Realistically though, I think Morrison has run his course here. He's been here for quite sometime and hasn't really unearth any big gems. To be fair to him though, most of our top drafted players in the league today aren't even on this team anymore due to inept management. Management hasn't given him many draft picks in the top 90 either, so his percentages of finding a top talent after the first round gets a lot harder.

With that said, I don't even know if there are any scouts ready to be a head scout or if there is one up for grabs. I think with the Leafs money, they would be wise to steal some from lower budget teams. We should be a lot better in this department; no excuses. The Habs were able to steal Timmins from the Sens --- we should be able to steal a pretty good one from another team.


Last edited by SprDaVE: 01-06-2014 at 12:35 PM.
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01-06-2014, 01:49 PM
  #892
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I think Tommie Bergman should be given the keys. I'm not sure if he would be up to it considering he's likely set scouting just in Sweden, but I love the way he can find talent. I guess that would change if he wasn't scouting one area alone.

Realistically though, I think Morrison has run his course here. He's been here for quite sometime and hasn't really unearth any big gems. To be fair to him though, most of our top drafted players in the league today aren't even on this team anymore due to inept management. Management hasn't given him many draft picks in the top 90 either, so his percentages of finding a top talent after the first round gets a lot harder.

With that said, I don't even know if there are any scouts ready to be a head scout or if there is one up for grabs. I think with the Leafs money, they would be wise to steal some from lower budget teams. We should be a lot better in this department; no excuses. The Habs were able to steal Timmins from the Sens --- we should be able to steal a pretty good one from another team.
I'm not sure I want to let Bergmann take the reins. I like having him in Sweden. I'd be content letting him take control of the European side of things, have someone take control of the North American scouting, and then having them both report to the director of Leaf Scouting.

But I 'm on board with giving the role of Director to someone else and relieving Morrison. I think he gets a bad rep, and he's done a fairly decent job, but I do think his time has come to an end. He's been head of scouting from the end of the JFJ years, through the Burke years, and now into the Nonis era. That's too long. It's stagnating IMO. Time to bring in a new mind to head up scouting.

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01-06-2014, 03:16 PM
  #893
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Morrison isn't very good. The virtues of a good scouting staff pay off pretty quickly, like Anaheim, Chicago, even Ottawa.
Add Montreal there doing a great job, superior scouting staff proves their worth.

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01-06-2014, 03:52 PM
  #894
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I think Tommie Bergman should be given the keys. I'm not sure if he would be up to it considering he's likely set scouting just in Sweden, but I love the way he can find talent. I guess that would change if he wasn't scouting one area alone.

Realistically though, I think Morrison has run his course here. He's been here for quite sometime and hasn't really unearth any big gems. To be fair to him though, most of our top drafted players in the league today aren't even on this team anymore due to inept management. Management hasn't given him many draft picks in the top 90 either, so his percentages of finding a top talent after the first round gets a lot harder.

With that said, I don't even know if there are any scouts ready to be a head scout or if there is one up for grabs. I think with the Leafs money, they would be wise to steal some from lower budget teams. We should be a lot better in this department; no excuses. The Habs were able to steal Timmins from the Sens --- we should be able to steal a pretty good one from another team.
I have always wanted the Leafs to trade down and stockpile late picks and then let Bergman go to work with 6 or 7 late picks and hope he can continue his magic.

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01-06-2014, 11:22 PM
  #895
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The most garbage team I have ever seen.

Many of the picks were over hyped. But to leave Brown off and Finn because To. wouldn't give you Reilly?! That was the worst Cdn I can recall, absolute garbage and the result supports that. The Sutters are washed up now. Period. Many will never make the NHL,like so many bums we have seen. We must judge this team as many judge the leafs, complete bums! No argument, get lost!

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01-07-2014, 09:01 AM
  #896
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That's a little excessive considering Gauthier's provided key scoring for past Canadian international teams (just this past year in fact).

Overall I agree though. You want to bring a player that can protect leads on the team, great go do it. That's helpful when you actually have a lead to protect. That's a role Gauthier does well. That's what the whole point of a thirteenth forward is for.

But bringing a line of them? That's just dumb. Why not take players who can do both. I have no clue why they couldn't use Horvat and Laughton on the 4th line, bring some firepower on the upper lines, and let the team go crazy. Laughton and Horvat can play both sides of the game just fine. Let Gauthier go out there in key situations for the faceoffs and use him sparingly as the 13th forward. If he starts to click and get going offensively with them, great than he can keep playing. If he's just doing his role and nothing else, great than he's doing the job he's here for.

Hockey Canada has made some very weird decision in the past couple of years. It's this whole idea of "building a proper team" and "chemistry". Why not just bring the best players possible and let them run rampant over the competition. It's worked before, why not try it again.
Toews, Richards, and Nash were our best line in Vancouver, shutdown line with offense. We knew if Canada lost, Sutter would be open for criticism. There was no reason not bringing more offence. We beat ourselves even before the tournament began.

Drouin is better as a Left winger, we should have played him with a Center that could get more out of him. So many puzzling decisions. How about a line of Horvat, Drouin and Domi? Second guessing ~ open season.

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01-07-2014, 02:11 PM
  #897
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Do we actually have anything to show for Bergman's supposed scouting prowess?

Gunnarsson?

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01-09-2014, 08:35 PM
  #898
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Well deserved 6th one. Might as well go for the touchdown. We are really facing a godawful downward spiral.

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01-09-2014, 09:35 PM
  #899
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Not to pick on Matt Finn specifically, but when you're team drafting and development is as poor as ours, I'll have to wait and see with that selection. So many of our prospects don't even make it as good AHLers.
Matt Finn is a good hockey player. I've seen him enough times to know that he will have an NHL career barring injury.

The problem I have with the Leafs is that they bury their prospects in the AHL and don't give them much of a chance in the NHL.

When Matt Finn is AHL eligible he should get 20 minutes a night...there shouldn't be a career AHL'er playing more minutes than Finn.

It's a development league that is not being used as such by the Leafs. What good are the Leafs doing by scratching Percy in AHL games...

They single handedly crush the confidence of their own prospects.

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01-09-2014, 09:46 PM
  #900
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/wjc 2014

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