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Adjusted Stanley Cups

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Old
12-29-2013, 01:19 AM
  #1
kmad
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Adjusted Stanley Cups

We're adjusting everything else, why the hell not?

(I did a Google search for this and nothing came up, apologies if this has already been done)

I'm among the few that doesn't think it's fair that all Stanley Cups are to be considered equal. Some cups were won in a three or four team league, and most were won when there were 12 or fewer teams. How can a Cup in such a small league be worth just as much historically as a Cup won last season? The competition is far greater, and should reflect on the franchise in a higher manner.

Simple formula: Cup Value = n/30, where n = number of teams in the league that year.

Obviously this is far from perfect, but I'm curious as to how this would look if it was (very) crudely adjusted.

Rough Google Doc with the raw info:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2WjBaT3c#gid=0

Results, in order:

Montreal Canadiens - 8.7667
Detroit Red Wings - 5.2667
Edmonton Oilers - 3.5
New Jersey Devils - 2.8
New York Islanders - 2.8
Chicago Blackhawks - 2.7667
Boston Bruins - 2.6667
Toronto Maple Leafs - 2.5667
Pittsburgh Penguins - 2.4333
Colorado Avalanche - 1.8677
New York Rangers - 1.7333
Philadelphia Flyers - 1.1333
Anaheim Ducks - 1.0
Carolina Hurricanes - 1.0
Los Angeles Kings - 1.0
Tampa Bay Lightning - 1.0
Dallas Stars - 0.9
Calgary Flames - 0.7
Ottawa Senators - 0.6
Montreal Maroons - 0.5333
Vancouver Canucks - 0

Can you tell I'm bored?


Last edited by kmad: 12-29-2013 at 07:39 PM.
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12-29-2013, 01:12 PM
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Big Phil
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Oh boy, let's not do this. A perfect example of the flaws of adjusting things to death, both Calgary and Dallas have one Cup per franchise. "Adjusted" they both have 0.9 or 0.7 Cups. Silly.

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12-29-2013, 01:32 PM
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saskganesh
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Is the Montreal Maroons cup(s) half empty or half full?

You could recast and rethink this as a Playoff Competition Index, also taking into account how many teams made the post season, the number of rounds (2,3,4; complicated because there used to byes sometimes), the length of the series involved (some series were 2/3 or 3/5), AND the quality of the competition (for with divisional playoffs, the range of oppositional competence varies quite a bit).

Eh, probably not easily doable.

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12-29-2013, 02:21 PM
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Do Philly's two Cups count for nothing? As a Penguins fan, I am okay with this, lol

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12-29-2013, 07:04 PM
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MadLuke
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Not sure that the existance of the oilers or the panthers this year should change much thing to the 2013 cup value. And needing to beat the habs or the wings some year of the 06 could made it a cup that as a lot of "value", as much of today probably.

Very hard to adjust, taking account year by year average competition need to be faced by the cup winner, the number of series to win and the number of team in the league would be a start.

Would be hard to do, because even if it was possible to achieve some thing like this perfectly, what use would we do with it

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12-29-2013, 07:26 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadLuke View Post
Not sure that the existance of the oilers or the panthers this year should change much thing to the 2013 cup value.
There are always horrible teams - if these teams didn't exist this year, then it would be someone else.

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12-29-2013, 07:39 PM
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kmad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invictus View Post
Do Philly's two Cups count for nothing? As a Penguins fan, I am okay with this, lol
An omission, added. Who could forget Philly's 1.133 cups?

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12-29-2013, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Vancouver Blazers View Post
An omission, added. Who could forget Philly's 1.133 cups?
With Kate Smith singing "God Bless 88.7% of America" at every Home Game...I remember it well

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12-29-2013, 09:00 PM
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LeBlondeDemon10
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I wonder what my adjusted posts per day is?

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12-30-2013, 09:00 AM
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tony d
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Good effort here for sure but no one has any way of knowing who would have won the Cup yrs. ago even if there where 30 teams.

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12-30-2013, 10:50 AM
  #11
gudzilla
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the finals were still best on best

no need for this imo

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12-30-2013, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by florida pwnthers View Post
the finals were still best on best

no need for this imo
Right, but in some years, the effort needed to get to the Finals was far less than it is today.

The question is a valid one to ask, regardless of whether or not you agree with how the analysis was done.

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12-30-2013, 10:55 AM
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Chip Chipperson
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Seems fair. I don't view cups won with 6 teams as valuable as cups won with 30 teams either. Only problem I have with this is Ottawa having 0.6 as there is such a huge gap between the teams existence that I don't view us as being connected with the old Sens , but that's a debate for another day.

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12-30-2013, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rattler280 View Post
Seems fair. I don't view cups won with 6 teams as valuable as cups won with 30 teams either. Only problem I have with this is Ottawa having 0.6 as there is such a huge gap between the teams existence that I don't view us as being connected with the old Sens , but that's a debate for another day.
They were still the best team that year, regardless of how many teams there are.

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12-30-2013, 11:16 AM
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begbeee
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OP has a point, but it's not that easy. Why 30 is the norm? Actually winning against 5 other TOP teams could be far harder, couldn't it? Playing against stacked teams like today's Chicago like 2 or 3 rounds? Or easy-beasy so called borderline playoff teams?

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12-30-2013, 11:24 AM
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OP has a point, but it's not that easy.
He did acknowledge (in the original post) that it's "far from perfect".

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12-30-2013, 12:33 PM
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I agree with the OP entirely. A cup earned in today's era is worth 5X more than a cup earned during the original 6 era IMO. However, I'm sure historians would disagree and would say context is needed. For example, one could reasonably argue that any team winning a cup who's not named the Oilers in the late 80's had a tougher time than a team winning the cup now, even though there are more teams now.

An interesting idea nevertheless

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12-30-2013, 12:43 PM
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If you are going to go down this road, you might as well do cups over/under expected cups, too. A team that plays twelve years in a six team league would have an 'expected' cup total of 2.

I suspect Edmonton would have the most over expected. Could be wrong though.

UMM EDIT: Can't believe I spaced on Montreal.


Last edited by 66871: 12-30-2013 at 12:48 PM.
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12-30-2013, 12:50 PM
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I agree with the OP entirely. A cup earned in today's era is worth 5X more than a cup earned during the original 6 era IMO. However, I'm sure historians would disagree and would say context is needed. For example, one could reasonably argue that any team winning a cup who's not named the Oilers in the late 80's had a tougher time than a team winning the cup now, even though there are more teams now.

An interesting idea nevertheless
On what basis? With six teams there were less teams to beat up on a pad your stats.

And as I said earlier, they were still the best team that year it's irrelevant how many other teams there are.

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12-30-2013, 12:56 PM
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And as I said earlier, they were still the best team that year it's irrelevant how many other teams there are.
It's certainly not irrelevant.

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12-30-2013, 01:02 PM
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It's certainly not irrelevant.
Poor choice of words, I mean I don't think it should be asterix on a teams cup win if they win it in the 06 or in the current day NHL.

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12-30-2013, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ResilientBeast View Post
On what basis? With six teams there were less teams to beat up on a pad your stats.

And as I said earlier, they were still the best team that year it's irrelevant how many other teams there are.
Well, regular season games is a start. An 82 game season is more taxing than the 50-70 game season that the original six had. I think we both know how important being healthy is when trying to win a cup.

The game has changed significantly, especially after the dead puck era. Goalies are harder to beat. Less goons and more skill is required. Introduction of the composite stick. Introduction of European players. Reduction of draft rounds. The rules have changed too so that the game is stretched.

Also, business has changed which resulted in more competition, more development leagues, more incentive for owners and players. A player having to work part time as a machinist while playing hockey is not as good as a player who literally dedicates the bulk of their day training and practicing hockey. Team's have more resources (facilities, personnel, equipment) towards their product. Players have more avenues to develop and therefore the talent pool changed.

I mean, isn't it obvious? What was once a joke 6 team traveling circus is now a billion dollar empire.

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12-30-2013, 01:23 PM
  #23
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Well, regular season games is a start. An 82 game season is more taxing than the 50-70 game season that the original six had. I think we both know how important being healthy is when trying to win a cup.

The game has changed significantly, especially after the dead puck era. Goalies are harder to beat. Less goons and more skill is required. Introduction of the composite stick. Introduction of European players. Reduction of draft rounds. The rules have changed too so that the game is stretched.

Also, business has changed which resulted in more competition, more development leagues, more incentive for owners and players. A player having to work part time as a machinist while playing hockey is not as good as a player who literally dedicates the bulk of their day training and practicing hockey. Team's have more resources (facilities, personnel, equipment) towards their product. Players have more avenues to develop and therefore the talent pool changed.

I mean, isn't it obvious? What was once a joke 6 team traveling circus is now a billion dollar empire.
I agree with most of your points, but the championships shouldn't be worth less. Would you value all championship from all major sports leagues less in the past than those one more recently?

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12-30-2013, 01:31 PM
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kmad
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Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
OP has a point, but it's not that easy. Why 30 is the norm? Actually winning against 5 other TOP teams could be far harder, couldn't it? Playing against stacked teams like today's Chicago like 2 or 3 rounds? Or easy-beasy so called borderline playoff teams?
30 is the easiest number to use since there are 30 teams now. We'd get the same ratio of Cups no matter what number we used.

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12-30-2013, 01:35 PM
  #25
MarkGio
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Originally Posted by ResilientBeast View Post
I agree with most of your points, but the championships shouldn't be worth less. Would you value all championship from all major sports leagues less in the past than those one more recently?
I don't really follow any other sport. I can't provide an informed opinion to be honest. Asking me, I could easily tell you that hockey 30 years ago was more challenging than baseball today. In my lousy opinion, when an obese sloth like Babe Ruth is one of the best ball player ever, while the race to take the most roids is today's baseball challenge, its hard to take the athleticism of the sport seriously. Goes to show that you're asking the wrong guy.

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