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Trade Rumors/Speculation Part X: Sather Falls Asleep on the Phone

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Old
01-03-2014, 09:09 AM
  #901
NYR Viper
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NYR Viper- Do we know that a player making 6m per must be a leader of his team in 4-5 years?

If Cally makes 6m in 5 years, he will be 34 y/o, that is like making 3.9m today. Its not like I am terrified at the prospect of paying Cally "3.9m" per when he is 34 y/o. It sounds like G will take 5.5m per, that's like 3m per when he is 34-35 y/o.

For all I know, Girardi might as well be a bargin at that cost as he might be a burden. But what do I know... Everyone else is darn sure of themselves though.

CAP:
1y 71m
2y 78m
3y 83.85m (counting on 7.5% growth (given the PA bumper being 5% that is very modest))
4y 90.13m
5y 96.9m

Richards scares me for real. He scared me before we got him, and he still scares me. You know, there you got a legit question, how good will BR be in 3-4 years? But I don't quite understand why everyone is so afraid of Girardi and Callahan signing at around 5.5 - 6m per on long term deals right now. They are 29 and 30. The cap is going up a ton in the near future.

Also, you talk about taking a step back to move forward. You know, wheter I take everyone's proposals litterary or not, I still don't see how we are to move forward. Its that part I am missing. Since we are taking a step back too, we have to move forward a heck of a lot longer had we not taken the step back to start with. Who is moving us forward? Palmieri? THe 1st? The cap space we save on Girardi? You know, I can't evens see who will log the minutes we have at RD. Let alone fix any of the flaws we have.
Because I think 6 million is the bottom of the market for Callahan especially. He will get 7 years pretty easily as well. 28 years old.

This is all a moot point anyways because until you tell me that you feel the team will win a Cup by signing these players it doesn't matter.

You move forward by DRAFTING high end talent. Where do they get the high offensive talent without drafting it? Those players don't become available in UFA. They take a TON to trade for.

I am under the impression that signing Callahan and Girardi would lead to too much money being tied up in complimentary players and lead to this team neither competing, nor tanking. More mediocrity

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Old
01-03-2014, 09:14 AM
  #902
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I think it is as simple as you aren't winning a Cup with this roster. You are not going to win a Cup with a roster that retains all the RFAs/FAs they have this year and you won't win a Cup with the roster you end up with next year if you move several of the pending RFAs/FAs. The difference between the former two and the latter is that it gives you the opportunity to try something new and possibly win a Cup in the future.

The era with this group/core is over. Time to move on and build a new core around key pieces.
Agreed. That's what I've been saying for a while now.

As I posted a few pages back, which of the guys that we'd want to move are really contributing right now anyway? I mean this seriously.

The players under discussion are Cally, Girardi, DZ, Staal, Boyle and Moore. (You can look at Nash too, although I'm not sure how many takers there would be and I'd like to see how he does next year.) If you moved them all, you could get back 10-15 SOLID assets. Of course you're not going to get Landeskog, but you'll get a mix of young NHLers who haven't hit their stride yet, top-flight prospects, 1sts and 2nds.

Of the guys mentioned, who is really contributing - especially in the current system? I mean, we're talking three guys who've been out most of the year, two fourth liners who provide ZERO offense and Girardi. And even he, while eating major minutes, has been treading water at best - even his improved play of late has been mitigated by some horrendous gaffes (witness the giveaway in the last game).

You could move ALL those players, restock the cupboard, move towards an organization that is more suited to the style AV wants to play... AND the team's performance would only suffer marginally, if that.




Oh yeah. AND you'd have boatloads of cap space to sign free agents over the next 2-3 years (scary as that thought is with Slats at the helm).

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01-03-2014, 09:16 AM
  #903
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I wish Cally had another year on his deal. I want him around next year, or for the next two, but I don't want to commit to long term.

I'm OK with Girardi leaving, despite the fact that I really like him and what he represents for this team. It will take some adjusting. We're fine down the left side with McD, Staal, and then Moore/DZ or whoever will replace either/both. On the right I'm good with Stralman pairing with Staal for that 2nd line, and I think he can fill in on the 1st in a pinch, but we'll really need someone to step up there big time, or acquire a replacement via trade. Allen for the 3rd, with 2nd as upside. McIlrath at some point next year. Allen can play left I imagine. Versatility there on the bottom pairing.

I still think this team needs a 1C. I don't think it's Stepan (yet, or possibly ever), though I think he's a great 2nd. And we need a top six sniper, and a bottom 6 who's got some grit and physicality to his game. If we had Kreider, McIlrath, Dorsett and some as of yet unnamed big bottom 6'er who uses his size, we'd be fine in that department.

Kreider - 1C - Nash
Sniper - Stepan - Zuccarello
Hagelin - Miller - Cally
Bruiser - Boyle - Dorsett

McDonagh - PM RHD
Staal - Stralman
Moore - Allen/McIlrath

That's something I'd be happy going into next season with. I know most of you want Boyle gone and I do like Moore too, but if I'm choosing one it's Boyle. Not enough room for both if Miller continues to play well and develop, but it's way too early to assume or expect Lindberg will come up and play that position. Basically there are too many big holes to fill and I'm not sure how we're expecting to get the pieces. A top pairing RHD with puck-moving / PPQB ability, a top six sniper, and a bottom six with size who isn't just a goon but can actually play? All very desired pieces. Needing all three with the assets we have to give out... I just don't see it.

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01-03-2014, 09:16 AM
  #904
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Based on what criteria?
Grit or toughness because apparently those are the only things that win you hockey games.

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01-03-2014, 09:20 AM
  #905
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Wow.

Just for funsies, because I see Girardi and Hjalmarsson as roughly equal players, slight edge to Hjalmarsson (age/skating), I stumbled accross their team salary chart.



That is some salary structure they have. Good on them.

Sather & Gordon need to sit the core guys down and say "Look, we drafted you, we believe in you, this is your team. It has been since we evacuated Drury, Gomez, & Redden. But we can not compete with Boston, Chicago, etc nor can we keep this team together if you force us to pay top dollar long term for every one of you. For instance look at Chicago's success and future stability with the moneies Keith, Seabrook, & Hjalmarsson make."

The leadership of this team (players & management) needs to man up, and have a heart-to-heart pow wow and decide soon whats most important. They've done it before for other reasons, I believe it was locker room related. No reason not to do it again.

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01-03-2014, 09:23 AM
  #906
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Originally Posted by x BEUKEBOOM x View Post
Wow.

Just for funsies, because I see Girardi and Hjalmarsson as roughly equal players, slight edge to Hjalmarsson (age/skating), I stumbled accross their team salary chart.



That is some salary structure they have. Good on them.

Sather & Gordon need to sit the core guys down and say "Look, we drafted you, we believe in you, this is your team. It has been since we evacuated Drury, Gomez, & Redden. But we can not compete with Boston, Chicago, etc nor can we keep this team together if you force us to pay top dollar long term for every one of you. For instance look at Chicago's success and future stability with the moneies Keith, Seabrook, & Hjalmarsson make."

The leadership of this team (players & management) needs to man up, and have a heart-to-heart pow wow and decide soon whats most important. They've done it before. No reason not to do it again.
The difference is that those teams have high end players like Toews and Kane who are making what Callahan and Girardi will be making. You don't win when that is the trade salary wise.

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01-03-2014, 09:26 AM
  #907
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Based on what criteria?
Konopka is historically a better faceoff guy. So not only can he come in and do that, but he can help out the other centers in practice in that sense. Similar to what Messier *tried* to do when he was around working in a management role with the team.

He does everything Boyle does, and can fight better/is tougher. He'd make our fourth line tougher to compete against. Not to mention he's cheaper.

In a perfect world, having both guys on your fourth line would be a pretty good thing.

Also not to mention, no coach would get carried away with Konopka's play and put him in the top-6 like too many NYR coaches have done with Boyle. Nor would you see him on the ice late in a game when we're down

I like Moore and Konopka more than I like Boyle.

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01-03-2014, 09:28 AM
  #908
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This is all a moot point anyways because until you tell me that you feel the team will win a Cup by signing these players it doesn't matter.
Nah, you need to think that thinking through. I could ask the same question to you, will we win a cup by not signing these players? Doesn't make much sense huh.

Getting a cup-team is not digital / binar or whatever. Its not a 1 or 0.

Are we more likely to win a cup by signing them, that if anything is a legit question.

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01-03-2014, 09:31 AM
  #909
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Originally Posted by x BEUKEBOOM x View Post
Wow.

Just for funsies, because I see Girardi and Hjalmarsson as roughly equal players, slight edge to Hjalmarsson (age/skating), I stumbled accross their team salary chart.



That is some salary structure they have. Good on them.

Sather & Gordon need to sit the core guys down and say "Look, we drafted you, we believe in you, this is your team. It has been since we evacuated Drury, Gomez, & Redden. But we can not compete with Boston, Chicago, etc nor can we keep this team together if you force us to pay top dollar long term for every one of you. For instance look at Chicago's success and future stability with the moneies Keith, Seabrook, & Hjalmarsson make."

The leadership of this team (players & management) needs to man up, and have a heart-to-heart pow wow and decide soon whats most important. They've done it before for other reasons, I believe it was locker room related. No reason not to do it again.
Well, its sooooooo easy to now look at those contracts and think they are attractive.

We just have to accept that Sather did not believe in back-loading contracts and hence we have not signed them. Keith make 7.6m per this year but has a cap hit of 5.5m per.

It was unbeliveably stupid by Slats to not sign up our core with back-loaded contracts instead of nickling and diming with bridgecontracts and what not.

Someone should ask Slats for his reasoning behind this. I know someone like RangerBoy also hated back-loaded contracts, I never understood why.

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01-03-2014, 09:39 AM
  #910
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With Girardi his skating more or less is fine right now. That's the issue that may rear its ugly head eventually if you give him a long term contract. I wouldn't worry nearly about G. as much as with Callahan about the wear and tear of the game. I can't remember him ever having a serious injury. He's almost never out of the lineup--even with all the hits given and taken and all the blocked shots. He's always shrugged everything off.

Callahan has been getting hurt a lot in the last few years. He's a gamer but IMO the accumulation of injuries has slowed him down at least this year. People getting mad at him--it's not really fair. He's played balls to the wall for years and his body is not responding the way it used to.

For now I don't know what you replace them with. Right D's are hard to find. The Rangers are going to take a hit. I think if they stick with AV and the direction he wants to take the team in they'll want to find a 1st pair right D who is in on the offensive action a lot more than Dan is. How long that takes is the question. Personally get G for a reasonable amount of $ + maybe a little more but if the term is too long don't give him an NMC or NTC might be one way around it. Allows you to kick the can down the road a couple-three years.

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01-03-2014, 09:40 AM
  #911
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The difference is that those teams have high end players like Toews and Kane who are making what Callahan and Girardi will be making. You don't win when that is the trade salary wise.
true.. but wait till 2015 when theyre contracts are up both Kane and toews will have a 9m-9.5m cap hit easily..

in 3-4 years ovi, malkin and crosby wont even have the highest cap hit..

and dont tell me chicago didnt have cap problems after 2010 they gutted their entire roster..

Niemi, buff, ladd, versteeg,kopeka, brouwer, b. campbell.. talk about loosing half your team.. and all those guys were huge pieces to the puzzle of winning..

you guys are all right in that it takes solid drafting..

but take a look around the league, teams would kill for both callahan and g to get them on their teams.. you have to look at how do you replace those guys? trading for draft picks and young prospects thats 4-5yrs easily until we ca see what we have.. hank would be an average goalie at best by then..

slats needs to step down, but we kno that wont happen.. he will easily trade pieces to get similar players but older and make matters worse over pay FA to try and make up for those losses.. I think both are needed and part of the solutions.. you guys underrate them.. I rather keep both, contiue drafting well and players like kreider and miller have to step up...

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01-03-2014, 09:42 AM
  #912
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With Girardi his skating more or less is fine right now. That's the issue that may rear its ugly head eventually if you give him a long term contract. I wouldn't worry nearly about G. as much as with Callahan about the wear and tear of the game. I can't remember him ever having a serious injury. He's almost never out of the lineup--even with all the hits given and taken and all the blocked shots. He's always shrugged everything off.

Callahan has been getting hurt a lot in the last few years. He's a gamer but IMO the accumulation of injuries has slowed him down at least this year. People getting mad at him--it's not really fair. He's played balls to the wall for years and his body is not responding the way it used to.

For now I don't know what you replace them with. Right D's are hard to find. The Rangers are going to take a hit. I think if they stick with AV and the direction he wants to take the team in they'll want to find a 1st pair right D who is in on the offensive action a lot more than Dan is. How long that takes is the question. Personally get G for a reasonable amount of $ + maybe a little more but if the term is too long don't give him an NMC or NTC might be one way around it. Allows you to kick the can down the road a couple-three years.
Agree with most of this. I think if it comes down to one or the other, you stick with G. He'll be cheaper, probably require less years. He's played in more games despite his game style, and RHD are hard to come by, let alone one who has proven he can eat top minutes in New York.

I still think Sather re-signs both though.

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01-03-2014, 09:46 AM
  #913
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A thoughts

If Buffalo is rebuilding and clearing cap space, maybe Tyler Myers? He's been pretty bad since his first two years but there's something there and im inclined to believe its more than what Del Zotto has. They'll get DZ cheaper, too, on his next contract.

Myers is on the hook for 5.5 until 2018 season.

Maybe Buffalo does that deal straight up and retains 1 mill a year. Maybe we need to throw in a mid-level prospect?

Maybe getting out of Buffalo unleashes Myers like chara getting out of long island...

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01-03-2014, 09:49 AM
  #914
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plus you think 25 other teams in the league dont have similar problems we have.. its not easy making trades or drafting, its always a crap shoot..

best thing about this org the past 10 years was bringing in torts and having him get the most out of his players..he raised everyones game and we had an identity of working hard.. id take a roster filled with hard working players that have 2way games then just one demential top end scorers

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01-03-2014, 09:49 AM
  #915
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Also, you talk about taking a step back to move forward. You know, wheter I take everyone's proposals litterary or not, I still don't see how we are to move forward. Its that part I am missing. Since we are taking a step back too, we have to move forward a heck of a lot longer had we not taken the step back to start with. Who is moving us forward? Palmieri? THe 1st? The cap space we save on Girardi? You know, I can't evens see who will log the minutes we have at RD. Let alone fix any of the flaws we have.
Amen. Very well said.

Not opposed to moving either. But some people seem to want to dump them for the sale of dumping them.

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01-03-2014, 09:52 AM
  #916
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If Buffalo is rebuilding and clearing cap space, maybe Tyler Myers? He's been pretty bad since his first two years but there's something there and im inclined to believe its more than what Del Zotto has. They'll get DZ cheaper, too, on his next contract.

Myers is on the hook for 5.5 until 2018 season.

Maybe Buffalo does that deal straight up and retains 1 mill a year. Maybe we need to throw in a mid-level prospect?

Maybe getting out of Buffalo unleashes Myers like chara getting out of long island...
Myers has somewhat resurged this year. He's probably not going anywhere.

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01-03-2014, 09:53 AM
  #917
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Wow.

Just for funsies, because I see Girardi and Hjalmarsson as roughly equal players, slight edge to Hjalmarsson (age/skating), I stumbled accross their team salary chart.



That is some salary structure they have. Good on them.

Sather & Gordon need to sit the core guys down and say "Look, we drafted you, we believe in you, this is your team. It has been since we evacuated Drury, Gomez, & Redden. But we can not compete with Boston, Chicago, etc nor can we keep this team together if you force us to pay top dollar long term for every one of you. For instance look at Chicago's success and future stability with the moneies Keith, Seabrook, & Hjalmarsson make."

The leadership of this team (players & management) needs to man up, and have a heart-to-heart pow wow and decide soon whats most important. They've done it before for other reasons, I believe it was locker room related. No reason not to do it again.
It's a lot easier to convince players to take a discount when they see the opportunity to play with 2 elite players for the next decade. Who have already won a pair of Cups.

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01-03-2014, 09:53 AM
  #918
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Nah, you need to think that thinking through. I could ask the same question to you, will we win a cup by not signing these players? Doesn't make much sense huh.

Getting a cup-team is not digital / binar or whatever. Its not a 1 or 0.

Are we more likely to win a cup by signing them, that if anything is a legit question.
Honestly, I think signing them both long term pretty much nullifies all chance of this organization winning a Cup any time soon. For what they will be paid and what they bring to the table, they need to be able to carry the team for stretches. Neither does that.

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01-03-2014, 09:55 AM
  #919
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and dont tell me chicago didnt have cap problems after 2010 they gutted their entire roster..

Niemi, buff, ladd, versteeg,kopeka, brouwer, b. campbell.. talk about loosing half your team.. and all those guys were huge pieces to the puzzle of winning..
A lot of those cap problems were due to Tallon's screw up on the QOs and the offer sheet to Hammer. If not for the screw up, does that offer sheet happen? They may have still traded Campbell, but could have held onto a lot more of that team.

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01-03-2014, 09:55 AM
  #920
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true.. but wait till 2015 when theyre contracts are up both Kane and toews will have a 9m-9.5m cap hit easily..

in 3-4 years ovi, malkin and crosby wont even have the highest cap hit..

and dont tell me chicago didnt have cap problems after 2010 they gutted their entire roster..

Niemi, buff, ladd, versteeg,kopeka, brouwer, b. campbell.. talk about loosing half your team.. and all those guys were huge pieces to the puzzle of winning..

you guys are all right in that it takes solid drafting..

but take a look around the league, teams would kill for both callahan and g to get them on their teams.. you have to look at how do you replace those guys? trading for draft picks and young prospects thats 4-5yrs easily until we ca see what we have.. hank would be an average goalie at best by then..

slats needs to step down, but we kno that wont happen.. he will easily trade pieces to get similar players but older and make matters worse over pay FA to try and make up for those losses.. I think both are needed and part of the solutions.. you guys underrate them.. I rather keep both, contiue drafting well and players like kreider and miller have to step up...
And what did they do with those players you listed? They traded them before they were all paid a ton to recoup assets and not overpay complimentary players. Now they have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league and a ton of good young players filling significant roles on their NHL team.

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01-03-2014, 09:57 AM
  #921
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And what did they do with those players you listed? They traded them before they were all paid a ton to recoup assets and not overpay complimentary players. Now they have one of the deepest prospect pools in the league and a ton of good young players filling significant roles on their NHL team.
And they won another cup.

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01-03-2014, 09:58 AM
  #922
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What it comes down to is the people who want to sign Girardi and Callahan for the long-term contracts is they want to keep the status quo. I ask, what is good about the status quo? Will this team get better as the core pieces get older?

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01-03-2014, 10:00 AM
  #923
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Bruins fan here. What would it take for the Bruins to acquire Girardi?

Would a combo of Bartkowski/Koklachev/1st rounder get it done? Or am I way off?

Thanks.

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01-03-2014, 10:03 AM
  #924
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 1m
Rangers in Toronto tomorrow. Expect Del Zotto's agents (Newport) to meet with NYR's brass to discuss Rangers continued efforts to trade him.
Not surprising

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01-03-2014, 10:04 AM
  #925
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Bruins fan here. What would it take for the Bruins to acquire Girardi?

Would a combo of Bartkowski/Koklachev/1st rounder get it done? Or am I way off?

Thanks.
I would think they would like a higher end d-man if possible but it's not a bad package.

Morrow + Khok + 1st

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