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Why is cannabis usage and not alcohol consumption frowned down upon?

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Old
01-03-2014, 03:16 PM
  #101
Hippasus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck View Post
I suppose if cannabis is the biggest 'social values' cleavage in your community, you are doing ok. Some places are dealing with oxycontin or needles. Grass is pretty much accepted where I live. But then so is gambling everywhere with government onside these days (numbers rackets (6-49, Lotto Max), sports gambling, casinos, racetrack betting and gaming machines everywhere). I also suppose there are some small communities where a divorce is still a 'scandal' of sorts, in others it's normal practice. I guess how far down the road you are to whatever you believe is 'degenerate' hell depends on your neighbourhood. My own ongoing 'shock' in modern times is more along the lines of huge character flaws in leadership. I work in an office full of suits making 6 figures, looking all dapper and swell, and I still get blown away by crap from people who should know better. Or if you want to go further up the ladder (less close to home), it still amazes me what suits in the PMO or Mayor's offices are up to in 2013. I suppose I have greater expectations of people who are paid more for taking responsibility and am blown away by how little that responsibility is actually taken. People toking pot is pretty far down the ladder in my list of bad behaviours in 2013-14, it's actually nice and quaint it still is in some places (kinda like being 'shocked' about a neighbour not going to church on Sunday).
It's true it should be a relatively minor issue.

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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Humanity wandered the earth for its first quarter million years without doing really anything.

Then, 10,000 years ago, Sumerians became the first people to brew beer. As a result, we stopped wandering around and developed agriculture to grow the ingredients, construction to build breweries and warehouses to make/store the drink, calendars to organize when to plant, harvest, brew, and drink, and anything else you can associate with civilization in short order. All for beer.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...with-the-world

http://www.aina.org/ata/20060827151956.htm

Meanwhile, pot just makes killer music.

So.... even trade?
Interesting theory. Initially it was to increase the lifespan of liquid, right? Whatever caused humans to become sedentary is probably a good candidate for what made civilization arise in the first place. Mathematics for the purpose of dividing land--i.e. an example of written records might be another explanation for the onset of civilization.

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Originally Posted by Tommy Barrasso View Post
What's being ignored here is the idea of social drinking. Proponents of alcohol who are also anti-cannabis can make the argument that one can have a beer or a martini and not be under the influence nearly to the degree of that of a single joint or pail. Many people drink without the intention of getting drunk, but if you're smoking marijuana, you are only doing so to alter your state of consciousness.

Now that being said, I have done my fair share of both alcohol and marijuana, and I agree that being drunk is definitely more debilitating than being high; but the fact that you can have alcohol without getting drunk is what saves it from being prohibited. In all honesty though, both should be legal.
A beer alters one's state of consciousness about as much as a single, large toke.

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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
With even minimal use of pot being illegal, there isn't much experience in society with "social" pot smokers. I think what will happen when pot becomes widely legal is society as a whole will finally get to see if smoking "social" amounts of pot results in acceptable behavior.
This isn't true. A lot of cannabis usage is social.

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Old
01-03-2014, 03:26 PM
  #102
Led Zappa
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I thought I was going to completely disagree with Krystal Ball for the first time ever. It turned out she was mocking David Brooks latest article on the foils of Marijuana legalization.

Substituting "weed" for, well read below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Brooks
In legalizing weed, citizens of Colorado are, indeed, enhancing individual freedom. But they are also nurturing a moral ecology in which it is a bit harder to be the sort of person most of us want to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krystal Ball
In legalizing Super Sizing, citizens of Colorado are, indeed, enhancing individual freedom. But they are also nurturing a moral ecology in which it is a bit harder to be the sort of person most of us want to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krystal Ball
In legalizing Walmart, citizens of Colorado are, indeed, enhancing individual freedom. But they are also nurturing a moral ecology in which it is a bit harder to be the sort of person most of us want to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krystal Ball
In legalizing Watching too much TV, citizens of Colorado are, indeed, enhancing individual freedom. But they are also nurturing a moral ecology in which it is a bit harder to be the sort of person most of us want to be.


Brooks stupid opinion http://www.salon.com/2014/01/03/davi...t_legalize_it/

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01-03-2014, 04:46 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippasus View Post

This isn't true. A lot of cannabis usage is social.
You misunderstand. I am sure cannabis usage is primarily "social" but until now it has been universally illegal (at least in the US) so was not used widely in public social settings.

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01-03-2014, 04:50 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
You misunderstand. I am sure cannabis usage is primarily "social" but until now it has been universally illegal (at least in the US) so was not used widely in public social settings.
It's been virtually "not illegal" here since I was a youngin'. Worst case scenario a cop would just take it from you unless you were an ass. It was freely smoked at party's. No one I personally know is going to smoke it in the house around the kids. They don't get drunk around them either.

No if you're talking about bars and such that's a different story, but it's not legal to smoke it in public in Colorado either.

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01-03-2014, 06:02 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
It's been virtually "not illegal" here since I was a youngin'. Worst case scenario a cop would just take it from you unless you were an ass. It was freely smoked at party's. No one I personally know is going to smoke it in the house around the kids. They don't get drunk around them either.

No if you're talking about bars and such that's a different story, but it's not legal to smoke it in public in Colorado either.
Or simply not white.

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01-03-2014, 06:19 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
It's been virtually "not illegal" here since I was a youngin'. Worst case scenario a cop would just take it from you unless you were an ass. It was freely smoked at party's. No one I personally know is going to smoke it in the house around the kids. They don't get drunk around them either.

No if you're talking about bars and such that's a different story, but it's not legal to smoke it in public in Colorado either.
Good post.

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01-03-2014, 06:25 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Franck View Post
Or simply not white.
Pretty much. Walking While Black with weed in your pocket is a risky proposition.

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01-03-2014, 06:36 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Franck View Post
Or simply not white.
Says the lilly white Swede from Gottenburg? LMMFAO.

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01-03-2014, 07:03 PM
  #109
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Says the lilly white Swede from Gottenburg? LMMFAO.
Maybe he has just properly educated himself on the statistics of race and marijuana prosecution in America, something which lilly (sic) white guy from Minnesota has apparently failed to do.

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01-03-2014, 07:11 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
You misunderstand. I am sure cannabis usage is primarily "social" but until now it has been universally illegal (at least in the US) so was not used widely in public social settings.
Concerts, Fenway, Burning Man...

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01-03-2014, 07:12 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
You misunderstand. I am sure cannabis usage is primarily "social" but until now it has been universally illegal (at least in the US) so was not used widely in public social settings.
Have you ever been to a concert? Anywhere? Ever?

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01-03-2014, 07:20 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Maybe he has just properly educated himself on the statistics of race and marijuana prosecution in America, something which lilly (sic) white guy from Minnesota has apparently failed to do.
Says the guy from Perth, Australia. LMMFA

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01-03-2014, 07:22 PM
  #113
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Minorities in Australia?

New one on me.

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01-03-2014, 07:22 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by 651 View Post
Says the guy from Perth, Australia. LMMFA
American citizen who works in Australia, dip****.

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01-03-2014, 07:35 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by 651 View Post
Says the guy from Perth, Australia. LMMFA
I wasn't aware that where I presently live was any indication of where I've lived most of my life.

But the funniest part is that, regardless of where you live, you can properly educate yourself on the statistics since there is this thing called the internet, and lots of information is available on it. Unfortunately, you and various other hacks seem to revel in your abysmal ignorance rather than actually knowing what the hell you're talking about.

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01-03-2014, 10:10 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
I wasn't aware that where I presently live was any indication of where I've lived most of my life.

But the funniest part is that, regardless of where you live, you can properly educate yourself on the statistics since there is this thing called the internet, and lots of information is available on it. Unfortunately, you and various other hacks seem to revel in your abysmal ignorance rather than actually knowing what the hell you're talking about.
Go **** yourself.


I already said in this thread they should - need to, actually - decriminalize small amounts. That would be fine with me. I've known far worse alcoholics on a personal level than any pothead I've ever known, at least in terms of personality. I'd much rather deal with a ditsy stoner than a raging drunk, by far. Both are bad, however.

I won't get into the good or bad it does to a person's mental capacity, but having seen it personally I conclude that alcohol does far more damage to society than marijuana ever did.

Still, pot never produced an athlete like Babe Ruth.



Last edited by 651*: 01-03-2014 at 10:17 PM.
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01-04-2014, 02:01 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
You misunderstand. I am sure cannabis usage is primarily "social" but until now it has been universally illegal (at least in the US) so was not used widely in public social settings.
I don't think we need to see the results of legalization to know that there is nothing to worry about regarding social use of cannabis. It is used at parties, concerts, and small gatherings by some people primarily for the social aspect. It is unproblematic in this way as far as I can tell. Adults individuals should be responsible for themselves without a nanny state dictating on the consumption on relatively unproblematic (not physically addictive) substances, regardless of whether it is alcohol or cannabis.

For some reason alcohol has this stigma of not being a "drug". I do not see how it is not a psychoactive substance like cannabis. Admitting to a co-worker that one got hammered can be an icebreaker and get a pat on the back. Admit you got blitzed on weed and there's a good chance that person will hold it against you. This sort of stigmatization surprises and bothers me about living in Calgary sometimes. Not to mention that because it is criminal, small possession can affect one's whole working career. That is a travesty for most of North America in my honest opinion.

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01-04-2014, 02:05 PM
  #118
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As someone who was a raging pothead for a long time and now deeply regrets it I have to say that I don't think it's an "unproblematic substance"

I'm all for legalization but we need to be honest about it: it's isn't harmless

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01-04-2014, 02:27 PM
  #119
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As someone who was a raging pothead for a long time and now deeply regrets it I have to say that I don't think it's an "unproblematic substance"

I'm all for legalization but we need to be honest about it: it's isn't harmless
I don't think anyone has ever claimed that it's harmless. Alcohol in excess is harmful, and excess can be a relatively small amount if your driving. Too much sugar in your diet over a long time can be very harmful. Smoking anything on a fairly regular basis over an extended time certainly can be harmful. Eating food with significant amounts of oil or fat over an extended period of time is harmful (heck, I already know a few, apparently healthy young people, here in Mexico who suddenly discovered at age 20 that they had to have their gall bladder removed due to a diet of too much fatty food).

There's a whole lot of things that can be harmful to our health if not managed appropriately. The issues are 1) the degree of threat of harm that different things can present, and 2) trying to establish habits among the population not to use or do things to excess which that can really be potentially harmful in such case.

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01-04-2014, 02:48 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
As someone who was a raging pothead for a long time and now deeply regrets it I have to say that I don't think it's an "unproblematic substance"

I'm all for legalization but we need to be honest about it: it's isn't harmless
True, it isn't harmless. It can be a gateway drug for some, or one can become psychologically addicted to it if one is lacking self-control. But this can and does occurs anyways with it being criminalized. The possibility of addiction under legalization is a lesser evil than letting the state have the ultimate say on the consumption of depressants like alcohol and cannabis.

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01-04-2014, 02:53 PM
  #121
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I don't think I've ever met a raging pothead. Marijuana usually makes people quite a bit more relaxed in my experience.

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01-04-2014, 02:54 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
As someone who was a raging pothead for a long time and now deeply regrets it I have to say that I don't think it's an "unproblematic substance"

I'm all for legalization but we need to be honest about it: it's isn't harmless

this.

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01-04-2014, 03:11 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
As someone who was a raging pothead for a long time and now deeply regrets it I have to say that I don't think it's an "unproblematic substance"

I'm all for legalization but we need to be honest about it: it's isn't harmless
Can you expand on what it means to be a "raging pothead" and what about it gives you feelings of "deep regret" because you're sounding like a guy who sucked dick for crack.


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01-04-2014, 04:59 PM
  #124
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What is a "raging pothead?" Do they go around robbing people so they can get their next score?

Call me skeptical...

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01-04-2014, 05:36 PM
  #125
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Well, I've heard that smoking pot as stress relief does wonders to a Law School JD ranking. There are circumstances where smoking pot can negatively effect people's lives significantly. But so can alcohol...

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