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01-03-2014, 10:57 AM
  #1
Spez
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David Poile

Sens fan coming in peace. After the whole Ryan debacle with team USA, my question to you guys is what do you think of Poile's whole body of work in Nashville? I ask because I was questioning why he'd be the man in charge of Team USA when guys like Burke, Shero and Lombardi have won a championship and have those 3 teams made into annual contenders.

I keep hearing he's done a good job with a small payroll but we've seen small payroll teams have more success than Nashville. Buffalo was a small payroll team before Pegula and they were able to reach a cup final and 4 conference finals in the Regier era. Is it a case that the organization is just happy with the status quo and is satisfied with just making the playoffs?

I never understood how Poile and even Trotz for that matter have lasted so long. 1 series win in all their time here would have likely had that duo fired in a majority of the other markets.

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01-03-2014, 11:21 AM
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Fo Shea Shea
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2 series wins....don't short us. Poile's time here has been ok overall. Lot's of people calling for him and Trotz to get their walking papers more so than ever. I can't help but think it's time to shake things up myself.

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01-03-2014, 11:25 AM
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Speaking for myself I've been a fan of Poile for keeping the team competitive and a consistent track record of making the playoffs despite obvious challenges, and as for taking the next step, he always seemed to have a roadmap you could easily have faith in. Elite goaltending, elite top-end defenders with promising youngster defenders just needing time to mature, solid two-way depth up front with some young offensive promise (Wilson), some wildcard offense in the wings (Radulov), and just the need for some more $$ from the owners for free-agency help and the pieces were there. Competitive for now with the building blocks for a contender.

But recently, the loss of Hamhuis and Suter without anything back, the near-loss of Weber, the curious signings like Gaustad at inflated prices/term that chew up cap space that could have gone to scoring players, the arguable mishandling of Wilson and other scoring threats that may be retarding their potential (Trotz moreso, but Poile is Trotz's boss)...these are all causing me to lose the faith.

FWIW, I think not bringing Ryan was a mistake, but from what I read in the article it seemed that Burke was the only one singing his praises, so Poile wasn't alone in thinking the fit just wasn't there.

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01-03-2014, 11:38 AM
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Wow you're right. I had forgotten about the series win over the ducks I remembered the one vs the wings.

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01-03-2014, 11:46 AM
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I liked Poile but everyone in management has a shelf life. It's time for a fresher perspective for sure.

Don't just blame Poile though for the Ryan deal, Burke didn't want him either.

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01-03-2014, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spez View Post
Sens fan coming in peace. After the whole Ryan debacle with team USA, my question to you guys is what do you think of Poile's whole body of work in Nashville? I ask because I was questioning why he'd be the man in charge of Team USA when guys like Burke, Shero and Lombardi have won a championship and have those 3 teams made into annual contenders.
I don't get the Shero love. The guy walked into Sidney Crosby, Malkin, etc. The ping pong balls falling in your favor don't make you a good GM.

If anything, the Pens have underachieved with that roster.




As for Poile - his MO is that he can build a team as good as anybody, but can't get them over the hump. Also, you can't disregard the ownership and budget situation.

In fact, i'd say that up until this year, DP has done about as good a job as anyone in the NHL. That said, this year's free agent binge on mediocre players, the baffling choice to go with Hutton as a backup, and the poorly constructed team is a detractor.


Last edited by RaiderDoug: 01-03-2014 at 12:57 PM.
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01-03-2014, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkMM View Post

FWIW, I think not bringing Ryan was a mistake, but from what I read in the article it seemed that Burke was the only one singing his praises, so Poile wasn't alone in thinking the fit just wasn't there.
I think Burke was not singing Ryan's praises.

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01-03-2014, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spez View Post
Sens fan coming in peace. After the whole Ryan debacle with team USA, my question to you guys is what do you think of Poile's whole body of work in Nashville? I ask because I was questioning why he'd be the man in charge of Team USA when guys like Burke, Shero and Lombardi have won a championship and have those 3 teams made into annual contenders.

I keep hearing he's done a good job with a small payroll but we've seen small payroll teams have more success than Nashville. Buffalo was a small payroll team before Pegula and they were able to reach a cup final and 4 conference finals in the Regier era. Is it a case that the organization is just happy with the status quo and is satisfied with just making the playoffs?

I never understood how Poile and even Trotz for that matter have lasted so long. 1 series win in all their time here would have likely had that duo fired in a majority of the other markets.
Buffalo's salary was more than double Nashville's in 2000-01 and remained significantly higher (120-150%) until the lost season of 04-05. Buffalo's two deep playoff years in the cap era were over accomplished at over 150% and 118% of the Predators' payroll.

The question isn't if, but when, Poile finally steps aside and Fenton takes over as GM. He turns 64 next month with coming up on four decades as an assistant GM, GM, and/or VP.

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01-03-2014, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
I think Burke was not singing Ryan's praises.
Ah, I thought I recalled a couple quotes where he earlier on he was questioning leaving out his offense. But they all went back and forth a bit so I might've been confused.

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01-03-2014, 02:09 PM
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I think Poile faces a lot of challenges in Nashville that are independent of his objective capabilities as a GM. Not giving him a free pass, but he faced an internal cap for years and he still faces the fact that many free agents simply do not want to play for a nascent, small market franchise. It limits visibility for both awards and eventual subsequent free agency periods (there have obviously been exceptions to this, so don't tell me Jagr opting to sign with Dallas disproves this general concept). Despite that, he has helped us ice competitive teams that have done pretty well in his time here.

I think he's a great GM. He's been a finalist for the GM of the year award in two of the four years of the thing's existence. The preponderance of the weight for that award comes from the 30 NHL GMs themselves. I am on record in past posts saying I do not believe he will ever be fired and I still believe this is the case. The worst I can see happening is we part ways with Trotz, the team still flounders, and he retires. Even at that point, he is still likely going to the Hall of Fame in the teambuilders category.

I think he handled the Ryan situation tactfully for something that wasn't his fault. I blame USA hockey frankly for allowing a stupid situation and never communicating that there was zero editorial control on what they wrote.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...3047--nhl.html

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01-03-2014, 02:18 PM
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One of the most overrated GMs in the league. He is unable to get teams to the next level. Figures that all it takes is for him to be an Olympic GM and leave off a American playing for a Canadian team for people to start questioning his 'accomplishments'.

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01-03-2014, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
One of the most overrated GMs in the league. He is unable to get teams to the next level. Figures that all it takes is for him to be an Olympic GM and leave off a American playing for a Canadian team for people to start questioning his 'accomplishments'.
The guy from the Canucks ... oh, wait, he's on the team. The Habs .... again, on the roster. Jets? Leafs? Represented too.

So much for the flawed concept that Ryan wasn't included because he plays for a Canadian based team. The fact is multiple members of the USA Hockey brain trust had issues with Ryan on the roster and none of them were he played for a Canadian club.

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01-03-2014, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkMM View Post
But recently, the loss of Hamhuis and Suter without anything back, the near-loss of Weber, the curious signings like Gaustad at inflated prices/term that chew up cap space that could have gone to scoring players, the arguable mishandling of Wilson and other scoring threats that may be retarding their potential (Trotz moreso, but Poile is Trotz's boss)...these are all causing me to lose the faith.
Careful, the Poile brigade will soon show up and defend each of these moves. Apparently Poile is not only the perfect GM here, but has won multiple Stanley Cups.

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01-03-2014, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
The guy from the Canucks ... oh, wait, he's on the team. The Habs .... again, on the roster. Jets? Leafs? Represented too.

So much for the flawed concept that Ryan wasn't included because he plays for a Canadian based team. The fact is multiple members of the USA Hockey brain trust had issues with Ryan on the roster and none of them were he played for a Canadian club.
You may want to read it again, never said that was the reason he was left off. But him leaving off a player like Ryan has brought the microscope in when he's been defended for years in the media because of our market.

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01-03-2014, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spez View Post
Sens fan coming in peace. After the whole Ryan debacle with team USA, my question to you guys is what do you think of Poile's whole body of work in Nashville? I ask because I was questioning why he'd be the man in charge of Team USA when guys like Burke, Shero and Lombardi have won a championship and have those 3 teams made into annual contenders.

I keep hearing he's done a good job with a small payroll but we've seen small payroll teams have more success than Nashville. Buffalo was a small payroll team before Pegula and they were able to reach a cup final and 4 conference finals in the Regier era. Is it a case that the organization is just happy with the status quo and is satisfied with just making the playoffs?

I never understood how Poile and even Trotz for that matter have lasted so long. 1 series win in all their time here would have likely had that duo fired in a majority of the other markets.
While I don't think Poile is the end all be all of GM's the Predators could do far worse. If you havenít read the ESPN article about the meetings that lead up to the final selection of the player you should do it. There is a good reason why Ryan is not on the team. Simply put they are not trying to build an all-star team. they are trying to build a real team.

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01-03-2014, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Persona5 View Post
While I don't think Poile is the end all be all of GM's the Predators could do far worse. If you haven’t read the ESPN article about the meetings that lead up to the final selection of the player you should do it. There is a good reason why Ryan is not on the team. Simply put they are not trying to build an all-star team. they are trying to build a real team.
I guess building a real team doesn't include goal scoring (consistent 30 goal scorers grow off trees if you're David Poile, I guess) ... just saying, I think it's a **** move ... Burke & Poile have outlived their respective shelf lives in this league.

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01-03-2014, 02:43 PM
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While I don't think Poile is the end all be all of GM's the Predators could do far worse. If you haven’t read the ESPN article about the meetings that lead up to the final selection of the player you should do it. There is a good reason why Ryan is not on the team. Simply put they are not trying to build an all-star team. they are trying to build a real team.
Completely agree. You want to ice pure U.S. offensive talent against pure Canadian offensive talent at the forward position? Go for it, but you are not going to win. We don't have half the talent they have; Russia and Sweden are both better as well. Defined role players and maximizing favorable matchups where possible is your best hope.

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01-03-2014, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
I guess building a real team doesn't include goal scoring (consistent 30 goal scorers grow off trees if you're David Poile, I guess) ... just saying, I think it's a **** move ... Burke & Poile have outlived their respective shelf lives in this league.
I thought it was because he couldnt play a bottom six role. They have Kane and Kessel on the right side top six.

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01-03-2014, 02:51 PM
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I thought it was because he couldnt play a bottom six role. They have Kane and Kessel on the right side top six.
This along with the lack of a spot on the powerplay for Ryan is why he didn't make it. While he does score goals they wanted more complete players in the bottom 6 and Ryan does not fit that mold.

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01-03-2014, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
I guess building a real team doesn't include goal scoring (consistent 30 goal scorers grow off trees if you're David Poile, I guess) ... just saying, I think it's a **** move ... Burke & Poile have outlived their respective shelf lives in this league.
Sorry, but that's an asinine argument on a team boasting Kane, Kessel, Parise, among others. People are acting like Ryan was displaced by Matt Hendricks and Paul Gaustad.

There's isn't a player selected for that team that can't score goals. Ryan may be more talented, and a better goal scorer, than some of those guys, but the selection process wasn't simply about taking the most talented goal scorers. The USA can't out-talent the Canadians, Swedes, or even the Russians, so more thought had to go in to building an actual team that could succeed in all facets of the game, not just putting the puck in the net. Ryan is a great player, but is fairly one-dimensional in what he brings, and there are at least 3 forwards that are better than him in the role he would fill (top 6). You could argue that he's better than Pacioretty, yet those wanting to use Ryan's great season so far as justification should know that Max actually has more goals in 10 less games this campaign.

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01-03-2014, 03:09 PM
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Sorry, but that's an asinine argument on a team boasting Kane, Kessel, Parise, among others. People are acting like Ryan was displaced by Matt Hendricks and Paul Gaustad.

There's isn't a player selected for that team that can't score goals. Ryan may be more talented, and a better goal scorer, than some of those guys, but the selection process wasn't simply about taking the most talented goal scorers. The USA can't out-talent the Canadians, Swedes, or even the Russians, so more thought had to go in to building an actual team that could succeed in all facets of the game, not just putting the puck in the net. Ryan is a great player, but is fairly one-dimensional in what he brings, and there are already 3 forwards that are better than him in the role he would fill (top 6). You could argue that he's better than Pacioretty, yet those wanting to use Ryan's great season so far as justification should know that Max actually has more goals in 10 less games this campaign.
They both have issues, one of them may not make it due to injury and the other has a history of eating his paycheck so to speak ... I suspect we won't see Parise at the Olympics at all.

From Michael Russo of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune:

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Zach Parise continues to work hard off the ice but is not allowed to be on it. I don't think we're going to see him for awhile. I don't know what awhile means, but I hear the latest MRI he had showed a fracture in his foot that didn't show up the first time around.

Typically stress fractures take four to six weeks. Knowing Parise, it won't take that long and this shouldn't affect his Olympic status, but coach Mike Yeo has changed his tune the past few days and stopped calling it day-to-day.

"We've got to keep him off the ice until it starts to feel better and then we might have to keep him off a little bit longer," Yeo said this morning. "We just have make sure he gets a full opportunity to heal. It's a long season and we need him to have the opportunity to go out and perform and compete at the level that he's capable of."
I can see Ryan saying screw you guys, I'm taking my talents to South Beach, after the public berating he received from "Burkie"

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01-03-2014, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
They both have issues, one of them may not make it due to injury and the other has a history of eating his paycheck so to speak ... I suspect we won't see Parise at the Olympics at all.

From Michael Russo of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune:



I can see Ryan saying screw you guys, I'm taking my talents to South Beach, after the public berating he received from "Burkie"
...and Ryan has the right to choose to do so, but I fail to see how Burke having a loud mouth in front of a reporter is Poile's fault. Ryan didn't make the team for valid reasons. There's no room in the top six barring injury, and he doesn't fit as a bottom six player. If someone gets hurt and they call him and he decides to stay home, well, that's his prerogative. But would you bump a healthy Kessel or Parise for Ryan? Because that was the choice the selection committee faced.

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01-03-2014, 03:17 PM
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They both have issues, one of them may not make it due to injury and the other has a history of eating his paycheck so to speak ... I suspect we won't see Parise at the Olympics at all.

From Michael Russo of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune:



I can see Ryan saying screw you guys, I'm taking my talents to South Beach, after the public berating he received from "Burkie"
Then he'd be a fool. He's getting some sympathy right now for being called out publicly (though I don't think any of it was off the mark), but if USA hockey asked him to come on board to replace Parise, and he refused, I believe sentiment would drastically shift against him no matter who was initially at fault.

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01-03-2014, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Spez View Post
After the whole Ryan debacle with team USA
The US hockey pool is deep enough now that leaving talented players like Ryan and Yandle and Okposo at home is an option. What a debacle, indeed. We should ensure this travesty is never repeated by discouraging American kids from playing hockey!

Poile has made some perplexing decisions recently, for sure, but the good has far outweighed the bad over the long term.

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01-03-2014, 04:10 PM
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For all the smarty pants out there.....

Who do you leave off of your top 6 RW for Bobby Ryan. All the bottom sixers have pk roles.

Do you leave off Kane or Kessel? Only 2 spots for RW who are on the ice to score and only score. No pk duty. and GO.


I understand why he was left off. that does not mean I think those quotes should have ever made it out of those GM convos.

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