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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XLVIII

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Old
01-03-2014, 09:44 AM
  #1
Bubba Thudd
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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XLVIII

Continued from here:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...557883&page=40

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01-03-2014, 10:05 AM
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Don't give him Duchene money($6m), but we're okay with Landy money($5.7m).

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01-03-2014, 10:10 AM
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Great two-way play or not, if you don't put up superstar points you don't get paid as much. 5.5 is fair imo.

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01-03-2014, 10:10 AM
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Don't give him Duchene money($6m), but we're okay with Landy money($5.571m).

lol
Fixed. Duchene should be the internal salary max until somebody proves they are better/more valuable to the team. MacKinnon is the only player who I think really has that potential right now.

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01-03-2014, 10:18 AM
  #5
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So we are ok paying 7 million for old expensive defensemen that would marginally upgrade the defense but not 6 million to young a core top 6 forward. The core is not the place to get cheap. (before anyone yells at me, I know Phaneuf would probably have been worth it but someone like Campbell, that's not the best use of assets if we are clutching the purse strings)

If Ryan would sign today for 6 and we wouldn't have to worry about this for the next 6+ months don't tell me a majority of y'all wouldn't take it.

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01-03-2014, 10:19 AM
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Bubba Thudd
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Duchene isn't making "Duchene Money". He chose to take a discount. Doesn't mean everyone needs to follow suit. Paying ROR $6M, on a long term contract, shouldn't hurt us.

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01-03-2014, 10:22 AM
  #7
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Fixed. Duchene should be the internal salary max until somebody proves they are better/more valuable to the team. MacKinnon is the only player who I think really has that potential right now.
This is the type of thinking that led to the O'Reilly holdout in the first place.

Matt Duchene, at 6M is still a nice deal because of what he DOES bring to the table in terms of him as a player (offensively) and because of what he means already to the Avalanche. He very well could've gotten 6.5M and it still would've been fair in my opinion.

At 6M (or slightly below to placate some folks) O'Reilly should be signed long term...as has been pointed out at some point, with the Cap going up, someone will make more than Duchene, likely a Free Agent if we decide to dip-in in a big way.

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01-03-2014, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Duchene isn't making "Duchene Money". He chose to take a discount. Doesn't mean everyone needs to follow suit. Paying ROR $6M, on a long term contract, shouldn't hurt us.
I agree with this. I think Duchene's contract is big bargain and that shouldnt be limit for others.

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01-03-2014, 10:29 AM
  #9
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Duchene isn't making "Duchene Money". He chose to take a discount. Doesn't mean everyone needs to follow suit. Paying ROR $6M, on a long term contract, shouldn't hurt us.
There are other players around the same level as Duchene that took the $6m. For a young RFA that is on the edge of stardom, that is the going rate.

It wouldn't hurt the Avs, they can easily afford it. It is about the combination ROR not being worth $6m at this point, and the fact that he is not worth more than Duchene. ROR has never score more than 55 points. He might surpass that right now, but his pace is only 57. He has never scored more than 18 goals in a season (he will surpass that this year IMO).

People saying that ROR is worth $6m are saying he is valued the same as Couture, Hall, Sharp, etc. And more than Seguin, Richards, Brown, Landeskog, etc. I am fine with overpaying to keep him (as I said in the last thread up to 5.9), but as much as Duchene should not happen.

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01-03-2014, 10:30 AM
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So we are ok paying 7 million for old expensive defensemen that would marginally upgrade the defense but not 6 million to young a core top 6 forward. The core is not the place to get cheap. (before anyone yells at me, I know Phaneuf would probably have been worth it but someone like Campbell, that's not the best use of assets if we are clutching the purse strings)

If Ryan would sign today for 6 and we wouldn't have to worry about this for the next 6+ months don't tell me a majority of y'all wouldn't take it.
Campbell would be more than marginal upgrade. He would help our defense a lot.

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01-03-2014, 10:31 AM
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Whatever about Duchene's contract, you also have to realize that our Captain who holds less value than Duchene but more than O'Reilly signed long term for even less.
O'Reilly's contract shouldn't be in the middle of Duchene and Landeskog. He should be slightly below or equal to Landy.

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01-03-2014, 10:32 AM
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There are other players around the same level as Duchene that took the $6m. For a young RFA that is on the edge of stardom, that is the going rate.

It wouldn't hurt the Avs, they can easily afford it. It is about the combination ROR not being worth $6m at this point, and the fact that he is not worth more than Duchene. ROR has never score more than 55 points. He might surpass that right now, but his pace is only 57. He has never scored more than 18 goals in a season (he will surpass that this year IMO).

People saying that ROR is worth $6m are saying he is valued the same as Couture, Hall, Sharp, etc. And more than Seguin, Richards, Brown, Landeskog, etc. I am fine with overpaying to keep him (as I said in the last thread up to 5.9), but as much as Duchene should not happen.
Salary cap will be higher,so will be the salaries. Most of these guys will end up being bargains for their teams.

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01-03-2014, 10:33 AM
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This is the type of thinking that led to the O'Reilly holdout in the first place.

Matt Duchene, at 6M is still a nice deal because of what he DOES bring to the table in terms of him as a player (offensively) and because of what he means already to the Avalanche. He very well could've gotten 6.5M and it still would've been fair in my opinion.

At 6M (or slightly below to placate some folks) O'Reilly should be signed long term...as has been pointed out at some point, with the Cap going up, someone will make more than Duchene, likely a Free Agent if we decide to dip-in in a big way.
So if ROR wants a raise from his 6.5m salary, and wants to be paid $7m for 5+ years... are you okay with signing that deal?

That line of thinking sets a dangerous precedent. It says that if you are the 4th best player on the team you can demand more money than the star. Then when the top 3 players contracts are up, they will demand more money than the other player to get the structure in line. It can be very inflationary. Now the Avs could withstand it for a while, but at some point in the near future the Avs will be spending to the cap again and won't be able to afford it.

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01-03-2014, 10:34 AM
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Whatever about Duchene's contract, you also have to realize that our Captain who holds less value than Duchene but more than O'Reilly signed long term for even less.
O'Reilly's contract shouldn't be in the middle of Duchene and Landeskog. He should be slightly below or equal to Landy.
True. Landy won Calder as a rookie so he should be pretty highly rated and paid. ROR was our best player couple years ago though. I think similar deal to Landeskog is fair imo.

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01-03-2014, 10:35 AM
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Salary cap will be higher,so will be the salaries. Most of these guys will end up being bargains for their teams.
I don't disagree at all. Like I said in the post the Avs can afford it, it just sets a dangerous precedent.

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01-03-2014, 10:35 AM
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So if ROR wants a raise from his 6.5m salary, and wants to be paid $7m for 5+ years... are you okay with signing that deal?

That line of thinking sets a dangerous precedent. It says that if you are the 4th best player on the team you can demand more money than the star. Then when the top 3 players contracts are up, they will demand more money than the other player to get the structure in line. It can be very inflationary. Now the Avs could withstand it for a while, but at some point in the near future the Avs will be spending to the cap again and won't be able to afford it.
7 mil would be too much. Thats Bergeron money. ROR can get there but he has to lead us to some playoff success berore that.

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01-03-2014, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
So if ROR wants a raise from his 6.5m salary, and wants to be paid $7m for 5+ years... are you okay with signing that deal?

That line of thinking sets a dangerous precedent. It says that if you are the 4th best player on the team you can demand more money than the star. Then when the top 3 players contracts are up, they will demand more money than the other player to get the structure in line. It can be very inflationary. Now the Avs could withstand it for a while, but at some point in the near future the Avs will be spending to the cap again and won't be able to afford it.
You start your post off with a ridiculous assumption and then say that type of thinking sets a dangerous precedent. Are we purposely clutching at straws here or what?

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01-03-2014, 10:38 AM
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You start your post off with a ridiculous assumption and then say that type of thinking sets a dangerous precedent. Are we purposely clutching at straws here or what?
How is that a ridiculous assumption? He makes 6.5m this year, and has shown in the past he is willing to hold out for more money. There is nothing stopping him from doing the same. Paying ROR more than Duchene would be a mistake. It wouldn't endanger the organization or their future success (at least in the near future), but would still be a mistake.

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01-03-2014, 10:40 AM
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How is that a ridiculous assumption? He makes 6.5m this year, and has shown in the past he is willing to hold out for more money. There is nothing stopping him from doing the same. Paying ROR more than Duchene would be a mistake. It wouldn't endanger the organization or their future success (at least in the near future), but would still be a mistake.
I agree with this. While I hope he negotiates easy and takes less than Dutchy, if he asks for equal or more I hope they refuse to give it to him.

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01-03-2014, 10:46 AM
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If Oilers all of a sudden made their entire team available, who would we want at realistic prices?

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01-03-2014, 10:49 AM
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You get rid of him over 500k? If the Avs announced today Ryan signed the exact same deal Duchene did I would expect the vast, vast majority of folks would be thrilled. I'm not debating value here but the reality of the situation. Not one person on here wants to see this drag out again, it still hurts. To have it over and done with, ROR officially part of the long term core, to not have to fight off the vultures from the other fanbases on a constant basis, I just can't imagine most wouldn't ultimately be satisfied.

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01-03-2014, 10:51 AM
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If Oilers all of a sudden made their entire team available, who would we want at realistic prices?
J. Schultz, Hall, Perron, and Nurse.

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01-03-2014, 11:00 AM
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True. Landy won Calder as a rookie so he should be pretty highly rated and paid. ROR was our best player couple years ago though. I think similar deal to Landeskog is fair imo.
ROR was our best player playing next to the Calder winning rookie, but O'Reilly has not been our best player since that season. Because of how the Lacroix regime handled his contract negotiations his current salary is over-inflated for his level of play. Now Sakic and Roy have to negotiate from a disadvantage, including the fact that Duchene and Landeskog arguably took discounts on long term deals. My hope is O'Reilly fully joins the team by taking an long term deal that "fits" within the established salary structure of the team, but only time will tell.

Personally I'd be happier "overpaying" O'Reilly if my eyeballs told me his level of on-ice dominance was the same as two seasons back, but that isn't how he's playing right now. I am curious to see how he handles the second half of the season.

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01-03-2014, 11:02 AM
  #24
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How is that a ridiculous assumption? He makes 6.5m this year, and has shown in the past he is willing to hold out for more money. There is nothing stopping him from doing the same. Paying ROR more than Duchene would be a mistake. It wouldn't endanger the organization or their future success (at least in the near future), but would still be a mistake.
I disagree.

In the past he was willing to holdout for a FAIR deal, not something that the prior Avalanche Brass (Lacroix's) told him "take it or leave it" and refused to negotiate.

The whole notion that he can't make more than Duchene is truly odd. Yeah, Matt is a better Offensive player than Ryan, but Ryan is miles ahead of him on the Defensive side AND he's shown that he can be a consistent 50-60 point scorer, and as a Winger he could get more.

So Ryan held out because he was told "Matt Duchene took this SWEETHEART of a deal, you should take the same...or we can sign you for longer term at LESS than what the 'bridge deal' would be worth! Sounds good right?" It still amazes me that people overlook the notion that if the Lacroix's had even made the smallest attempt at negotiating that he may not have held out.

And there's nothing that states that O'Reilly is looking for 7M a year.

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01-03-2014, 11:08 AM
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J. Schultz, Hall, Perron, and Nurse.
Schultz is an absolute train wreck of a defender.

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