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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XLVIII

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Old
01-03-2014, 10:08 AM
  #26
Skip2myBordyloo
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I think O'reilly is too important of a player, he's a glue guy who seems to play well with everyone and in my opinion is the most responsible in the defensive zone, i'd take him at 6.5 if we had to, but i have a feeling we can get him around Duchene money.

I'm hoping Stastny has an impressive Olympics , i want to package him up for a top paring D, or an improvement on that front.

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01-03-2014, 10:09 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
And there's nothing that states that O'Reilly is looking for 7M a year.
Of course not, but it sure does accomodate some peoples' arguments.

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01-03-2014, 10:12 AM
  #28
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Don't give him Duchene money($6m), but we're okay with Landy money($5.7m).

lol
Landeskog and Duchene took slight discounts because they want to build a championship team here. After hitting a Feaster home run last time, it would be nice if O'Reilly buys in the same way.

It's not like making $5.5M or $6M a year will have any practical difference for O'Reilly and his life style. It would however show what his priorities are.

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Old
01-03-2014, 10:14 AM
  #29
henchman24
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You get rid of him over 500k? If the Avs announced today Ryan signed the exact same deal Duchene did I would expect the vast, vast majority of folks would be thrilled. I'm not debating value here but the reality of the situation. Not one person on here wants to see this drag out again, it still hurts. To have it over and done with, ROR officially part of the long term core, to not have to fight off the vultures from the other fanbases on a constant basis, I just can't imagine most wouldn't ultimately be satisfied.
I never said get rid of him for it. I said it would be as mistake to sign him to that deal. If he wants 6.5m, it would be a very long negotiation. If he wanted 5.5m, all that would need to be hammered out would be the length of 5-8 years.

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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
I disagree.

In the past he was willing to holdout for a FAIR deal, not something that the prior Avalanche Brass (Lacroix's) told him "take it or leave it" and refused to negotiate.

The whole notion that he can't make more than Duchene is truly odd. Yeah, Matt is a better Offensive player than Ryan, but Ryan is miles ahead of him on the Defensive side AND he's shown that he can be a consistent 50-60 point scorer, and as a Winger he could get more.

So Ryan held out because he was told "Matt Duchene took this SWEETHEART of a deal, you should take the same...or we can sign you for longer term at LESS than what the 'bridge deal' would be worth! Sounds good right?" It still amazes me that people overlook the notion that if the Lacroix's had even made the smallest attempt at negotiating that he may not have held out.

And there's nothing that states that O'Reilly is looking for 7M a year.
No doubt Lacroix screwed up on negotiations, and should have tried to get ROR signed to a longer deal. I don't dispute that in the least.

Moving past Duchene at $6m. These other players are at $6m: Hall, Couture, RNH, and Eberle. Seguin is at 5.75. Landeskog is at 5.571. Skinner are 5.725. Duchene did not take as sweetheart of a deal as people say he did (this time especially, but last time there were questions about his play still). He took right around the going rate. Couture and Duchene are fairly equal players. Hall and Duchene are fairly equal players. Seguin and Duchene are fairly equal players. They all make around the same amount of money.

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Old
01-03-2014, 10:15 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
I disagree.

In the past he was willing to holdout for a FAIR deal, not something that the prior Avalanche Brass (Lacroix's) told him "take it or leave it" and refused to negotiate.

The whole notion that he can't make more than Duchene is truly odd. Yeah, Matt is a better Offensive player than Ryan, but Ryan is miles ahead of him on the Defensive side AND he's shown that he can be a consistent 50-60 point scorer, and as a Winger he could get more.

So Ryan held out because he was told "Matt Duchene took this SWEETHEART of a deal, you should take the same...or we can sign you for longer term at LESS than what the 'bridge deal' would be worth! Sounds good right?" It still amazes me that people overlook the notion that if the Lacroix's had even made the smallest attempt at negotiating that he may not have held out.

And there's nothing that states that O'Reilly is looking for 7M a year.
I'm with you, we don't know what he wants, but it's fair to assume it's in between 5.5/6.5m. If I'm the Avs managements I can work with that. What Duchene signed shouldn't affect the outcome of these negotiations, yeah I would love 7 years at 5.5, but losing ROR because of 500k could cost us a Stanley Cup.

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01-03-2014, 10:15 AM
  #31
henchman24
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Schultz is an absolute train wreck of a defender.
Plays too many minutes in a bad system. Would be a great defender here in a 4/5 role and QB the PP.

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01-03-2014, 10:16 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Landeskog and Duchene took slight discounts because they want to build a championship team here. After hitting a Feaster home run last time, it would be nice if O'Reilly buys in the same way.

It's not like making $5.5M or $6M a year will have any practical difference for O'Reilly and his life style. It would however show what his priorities are.
Can you tell me what your reply has to do with my post?

I find it laughable that some people are okay with one number, but are absolutely not okay with less than $500k more. I didn't even give my thoughts on his contract because I won't do that anymore. The cut-off mark is just funny.

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01-03-2014, 10:16 AM
  #33
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I'm sure in O'Reilly's case (as well as many, many other players') the term is more important than the Cap hit.

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01-03-2014, 10:20 AM
  #34
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It would suck to see Duchene get less money both times IMO. He has been the better player this year(not taking anything away from ROR). He probably should have waited until the end of the season to do an extension. I would think it would be hard for Duchene to see ROR get more money by sitting out, and then get more again on the next contract as well. Not ROR's fault, but would suck for Duchene. Hopefully we will see an actual negotiation take place and get ROR locked up long term, and leave this stupid mess behind.

I would still lock ROR up and trade Stastny if we had to choose between the 2.

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01-03-2014, 10:21 AM
  #35
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The problem is Newport has shown time and time again they ignore what type of contract they are signing during negotiations. Last time they were looking for a 3rd contract type of deal on his 2nd. Now they'll probably be looking for Clarkson UFA overpayment type of money on the 3rd deal as a 50-60 point RFA.

I love Ryan's game, and would still pay him $6M to keep him, but doing business with him and Newport would drive me up a wall. He's not a $6M type of player, despite all his intangibles.

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01-03-2014, 10:23 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
The problem is Newport has shown time and time again they ignore what type of contract they are signing during negotiations. Last time they were looking for a 3rd contract type of deal on his 2nd. Now they'll probably be looking for Clarkson UFA overpayment type of money on the 3rd deal as a 50-60 point RFA.

I love Ryan's game, and would still pay him $6M to keep him, but doing business with him and Newport would drive me up a wall. He's not a $6M type of player, despite all his intangibles.
This sums up how exactly I feel. ROR is a clear step down from the young $6m players.

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01-03-2014, 10:24 AM
  #37
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Everyone acts like ROR asked for 6.5 back during the negotiations. IIRC the Avs offered something around the Duchene bridge deal and ROR wanted more...He could have been looking for 4mil which was around market price for a 55 point player. We payed PAP that...we payed David freaking Jones that

I dont think ROR will come in looking for 7 mil. We cant expect him to take discounts like Duchene does/did. He will want market price imo. I think I am good with anything from 5-6 mil.

With all that said...he really should stay with Landy. Those two are great together for some reason.

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Old
01-03-2014, 10:27 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Can you tell me what your reply has to do with my post?

I find it laughable that some people are okay with one number, but are absolutely not okay with less than $500k more. I didn't even give my thoughts on his contract because I won't do that anymore. The cut-off mark is just funny.
There is a salary structure in place on the team. It's not about an extra few hundred thousand here and there. It's about what others on the team make and where O'Reilly is in relation to them.

Duchene has taken a slight discount. Landeskog has taken a slight discount. EJ has taken a slight discount. It would look good on O'Reilly and Stastny to do the same.

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Old
01-03-2014, 10:28 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Avs For Life View Post
Everyone acts like ROR asked for 6.5 back during the negotiations. IIRC the Avs offered something around the Duchene bridge deal and ROR wanted more...He could have been looking for 4mil which was around market price for a 55 point player. We payed PAP that...we payed David freaking Jones that

I dont think ROR will come in looking for 7 mil. We cant expect him to take discounts like Duchene does/did. He will want market price imo. I think I am good with anything from 5-6 mil.

With all that said...he really should stay with Landy. Those two are great together for some reason.
It is because they are both high IQ players. And agree that they should stay together. I would assume that now that Roy has ROR and Landy playing together against the top lines that it will stay that way......but who knows.

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01-03-2014, 10:44 AM
  #40
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I think that ROR let the negotiations last time get ugly because of the previous regime. Who wouldn't mind sitting out of that culture and make more money in the long haul by doing so? I think that they players genuinely enjoy playing for the Avs now so negotiations should be smoother this time around because ROR probably doesn't want to miss the time and the management is much better at communication now. Let's hope ROR's agent feels the same way.

One question about ROR's QO: Does his annual salary have to match the $6.5 mil or does the value of the whole contract have to be at least $6.5 mil?

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01-03-2014, 10:46 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
It's not like making $5.5M or $6M a year will have any practical difference for O'Reilly and his life style. It would however show what his priorities are.
Scooter upgrade.

Ideally you'd like to get a new contract done before the trade deadline to calm the trade rumors but doubt that happens.

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01-03-2014, 10:54 AM
  #42
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One question about ROR's QO: Does his annual salary have to match the $6.5 mil or does the value of the whole contract have to be at least $6.5 mil?
No his salary does not have to match that. He can sign a deal for any amount. If this lasts into the summer the Avs have to qualify him to keep his rights. Which means they basically are offering him a deal of 6.5m per (I'm fuzzy here, but he might be able to accept that deal for up to 2 years? I remember reading that somewhere, but don't know if it is correct). Now the Avs could take him into team elected arbitration which would give them the chance to lower the QO by 15% and ROR could accept that deal for 1 or 2 years. The arbiter could also side with ROR for X amount as well and the Avs could sign ROR to that deal or walk away and ROR would become a UFA at that point.

My guess, ROR and the Avs come to a deal before any of that happens.

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01-03-2014, 10:55 AM
  #43
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I hope the Avs trade O'Reilly so we don't have to talk about his ****ing contract anymore.

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01-03-2014, 10:58 AM
  #44
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I hope the Avs trade O'Reilly so we don't have to talk about his ****ing contract anymore.
I hope he gets signed to an 8 year deal, so we don't have to talk about his contract for a long time.

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01-03-2014, 11:00 AM
  #45
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Duchene isn't making "Duchene Money". He chose to take a discount. Doesn't mean everyone needs to follow suit. Paying ROR $6M, on a long term contract, shouldn't hurt us.
Bingo.


Duchene at 6M is a steal. He took a fairly large home town discount to stick with the Avs. He probably could have made close to 7M without the discount.

ROR deserves 6M. If the Avs offered him 6x6 today I would be ecstatic to see ROR locked up with the Avs for another 6 years to go along with Duchene and Landy.

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01-03-2014, 11:01 AM
  #46
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I hope he gets signed to an 8 year deal, so we don't have to talk about his contract for a long time.
This.

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Old
01-03-2014, 11:04 AM
  #47
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I hope he gets signed to an 8 year deal, so we don't have to talk about his contract for a long time.
Me too. I will be quite angry if ROR is dealt.

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Old
01-03-2014, 11:06 AM
  #48
henchman24
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Bingo.


Duchene at 6M is a steal. He took a fairly large home town discount to stick with the Avs. He probably could have made close to 7M without the discount.

ROR deserves 6M. If the Avs offered him 6x6 today I would be ecstatic to see ROR locked up with the Avs for another 6 years to go along with Duchene and Landy.
I'm going to keep pointing this out:

Couture - 6.0
Hall - 6.0
RNH - 6.0
Eberle - 6.0
Skinner - 5.725
Seguin - 5.75

It could be argued that at least a couple are on Duchene's level. Duchene wasn't getting 7m, hell Stamkos only got 7.5m.

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Old
01-03-2014, 11:08 AM
  #49
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If Oilers all of a sudden made their entire team available, who would we want at realistic prices?
I'd give up a lot to get Taylor Hall in an Avs sweater. I'm sure it'd take ROR+ but it'd be worth it. He's an underrated defender too.

Hall - Duchene - Mac... They'd make any defender a pylon

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01-03-2014, 11:15 AM
  #50
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Can you tell me what your reply has to do with my post?

I find it laughable that some people are okay with one number, but are absolutely not okay with less than $500k more. I didn't even give my thoughts on his contract because I won't do that anymore. The cut-off mark is just funny.
I'm not very keen on 5.5 for ROR either. But I certainly dont want him in the 6.0M after proving "this little". And it's gonna be hard argue against him to take a salary significantly less than Landeskog.

Remember, he has only played 69 games and scored 20 goals and 28 assist since we (most us) were frustrated that he wouldn't take 3.5M on a two year deal. I dont think he has proven in this 69 games that he is worthy of a long term contract at anything close to 6.0M. Eventually, I'm sure he will though.

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