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@Kings GDT: Lines, Discussion

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Old
09-30-2003, 04:19 PM
  #1
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@Kings GDT: Lines, Discussion

#17 Ladislav Nagy #11 Daymond Langkow #19 Shane Doan
#24 Jan Hrdina #36 Krystofer Kolanos #29 Branko Radivojevic
#49 Brian Savage #10 Kiel McLeod #12 Mike Johnson
#18 Tyson Nash #16 Mike Sillinger #8 Daniel Cleary


#23 Paul Mara #45 Brad Ference
#6 Matthew Spiller #32 Cale Hulse
#2 Todd Simpson #15 Radoslav Suchy

#1 Sean Burke #33 Brian Boucher

Interesting combinations to say the least. Francis might know something we dont, perhaps that Doan is ready to step up and be a 1st line player?

Kiel is playing? I hope all the side affects from mono have subsided, so we can get a good hard look at what he has to offer. These lines are pretty close to what we expected, although I question Kolanos at center, when Hrdinas skill in the circle should take priority.

Our top 4 Dmen look viscious on paper, all above 6ft and are physical.

Thoughts?

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09-30-2003, 06:43 PM
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Looks like the Dustin Brown show

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Old
09-30-2003, 07:48 PM
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ugh...last count it was 5-1 Kings...could this be a sign of many bad nights to come?

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Old
09-30-2003, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ducky
ugh...last count it was 5-1 Kings...could this be a sign of many bad nights to come?
Still the preseason

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09-30-2003, 08:11 PM
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Oh, I know. Still...

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09-30-2003, 08:24 PM
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according to yahoo, Taffe is in the lineup...

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09-30-2003, 09:56 PM
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Ference and Mara 41 PIM combined? Dubious achievement for the first D-line...

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09-30-2003, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vsmith
Ference and Mara 41 PIM combined? Dubious achievement for the first D-line...
Mara got into a fight with Ryan Flinn and Branko jumped in to help out. Then everyone got involved. Flinn and Ference broke away from the scrum and had a go. Ference picked up the instigator and the whole 27 PIM package that goes along with it.

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09-30-2003, 10:29 PM
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i don't mind fighting but I think Mara is much more useful on the ice than in the penalty box anyway, it's just a preseason.

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Old
10-01-2003, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by vsmith
i don't mind fighting but I think Mara is much more useful on the ice than in the penalty box anyway, it's just a preseason.
Yeah, Mara shouldn't be fighting. Especially against Ryan Flinn. He should stick with the guy like Jon Sim (whom he fought last season on Los Angeles). Nice to see both Branko and Ference sticking up for him though. He would've gotten killed one on one against Flinn.

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10-01-2003, 07:53 AM
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prospect production missing

I brought this up on the prospects thread but this topic deserves closer scrutiny. There is a very noticable lack of production by our prospects and it may be interesting to look a little deeper into this topic.

Last night Kings rookies accounted 6 pts. or more against our number one tender and 5 vets.

It seems daily that prospects on other teams are scoring. The night before for examplbe Stajan and Coliacovo got 2 pts. each for Toronto.

It leads me to wonder if we have the talent or if the coaches are providing our talent with the opportunity and confidence in order to succeed. Something is not quite right.

Looking at last nights stats you notice that we only had Taffe, McLeod and Spiller playing while the Kings had quite a few more rookies playing which makes the score even more of a concern.

Stats are often misleading but it appears that;

Spiller had a decent game stat wise in a 6-1 loss at only -1 with over 20 minutes played and 0 shots on goal.

Taffe had 10:56 played on 15 shifts with 0 pp time, 1 shot

McLeod had 10:13 played on 13 shifts with 13 seconds of pp time, 0 shots. First game back so we have to keep that in mind.

in contrast;

Frolov a 2nd year player and 1st rounder like Taffe and a year younger got 16:20 on 16 shifts with over 4 minutes of pp time got 2 pts. and was plus 1

Brown a 19 year old prospect got 21 shifts including 2:12 of pp time and was plus 4 against all vets with 3 pts.

Pirnes a 26 year old rookie got a similar amount to Brown.

Just a few observations and a growing concern for me. Mara and Ferrence were the D combo being eaten up by Brown, Pirnes and Sim. No wonder they both decided to fight. It goes back to my thinking that it doesn't matter how much depth we have up front if we don't have the backend to get them the puck clean and quickly it will be a long year. We were outshot 37-10 after getting the first 6 shots of the game. The only good news is that Tanabe and Ossi did not play last night and they have been the top pairing thus far.

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Old
10-01-2003, 09:58 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
It leads me to wonder if we have the talent or if the coaches are providing our talent with the opportunity and confidence in order to succeed. Something is not quite right.

Looking at last nights stats you notice that we only had Taffe, McLeod and Spiller playing while the Kings had quite a few more rookies playing which makes the score even more of a concern.
What would you say is the best way to give them an opportunity though? Surround your top rookies with more rookies also competing for that single available NHL spot? Or play them with NHLers and see how they mesh? There's a balance between getting a look at everyone and seeing how they mesh into the full team. IMO I like what we have done so far.. only keeping the best and playing them on full NHL lines to see how they do.

Quote:
in contrast;

Frolov a 2nd year player and 1st rounder like Taffe and a year younger got 16:20 on 16 shifts with over 4 minutes of pp time got 2 pts. and was plus 1

Brown a 19 year old prospect got 21 shifts including 2:12 of pp time and was plus 4 against all vets with 3 pts.

Pirnes a 26 year old rookie got a similar amount to Brown.

Just a few observations and a growing concern for me. Mara and Ferrence were the D combo being eaten up by Brown, Pirnes and Sim. No wonder they both decided to fight.
Hang on a sec.. Alex Frolov is more comparable to Radivojevic (who has had a good preseason) than Taffe in terms of pro experience and is a potential superstar (dominated the RSL as a teenager). Bit of an unfair comparision especially when the Kings arguably have one of the best collection of prospects if not the best. Brown was impressive no doubt - IMO they have a steal there.. (I was ecstatic to get him at 16th in my fantasy league.. had him top 6). But consider they had three first round picks yet only one has racked up the points.

I am more concerned about Mara.. he has got to be the most frustrating Coyote.. really has all the talent to dominate the game yet he doesnt put it together consistantly.. I feel it is a year too early to be a No.1. But saying they "decided to fight" is a bit of a reach. Or did I miss fighting penalties handed out to Brown and Pirnes? Still its a good point and they will have to learn how to keep their cool.

While a 6-1 defeat isn't great.. we should remember that we beat them 3-2 only a matter of days ago... not to mention depriving their highly touted rookie team of the tourney victory they thought was surely theirs.

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10-02-2003, 06:48 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevex
What would you say is the best way to give them an opportunity though? Surround your top rookies with more rookies also competing for that single available NHL spot? Or play them with NHLers and see how they mesh? There's a balance between getting a look at everyone and seeing how they mesh into the full team. IMO I like what we have done so far.. only keeping the best and playing them on full NHL lines to see how they do.



Hang on a sec.. Alex Frolov is more comparable to Radivojevic (who has had a good preseason) than Taffe in terms of pro experience and is a potential superstar (dominated the RSL as a teenager). Bit of an unfair comparision especially when the Kings arguably have one of the best collection of prospects if not the best. Brown was impressive no doubt - IMO they have a steal there.. (I was ecstatic to get him at 16th in my fantasy league.. had him top 6). But consider they had three first round picks yet only one has racked up the points.

I am more concerned about Mara.. he has got to be the most frustrating Coyote.. really has all the talent to dominate the game yet he doesnt put it together consistantly.. I feel it is a year too early to be a No.1. But saying they "decided to fight" is a bit of a reach. Or did I miss fighting penalties handed out to Brown and Pirnes? Still its a good point and they will have to learn how to keep their cool.

While a 6-1 defeat isn't great.. we should remember that we beat them 3-2 only a matter of days ago... not to mention depriving their highly touted rookie team of the tourney victory they thought was surely theirs.
Leafs prospects Stajan and Coliacovo each got a point again last night. stevex you have to be disappointed and concerned about the lack of production by our prospects compared to many teams prospects throughout the league. I think we have a total of 1 or 2 pts. by our prospects in 5 xgames. Is it coaching, player selection or scouting? That's the question I pose here.

Frolov wasn't really a reach to compare to Taffe. I realize the Yotes did not draft Jeff in the 1st round but he is a year older than Frolov and dominated college hockey. Frolov had 17goals and 13 assists in 42 games in Russia hardly dominenet numbers but he is gifted no doubt.
Branko is in his 3rd year of pro and 2 years older than Frolov so not really a good comparison. I just think other teams play their prospects more and in better situations. It's not unusual to see Stajan and Coliacovo on the ice with Sundin and Mogilny on the power play or in the last minute of the game. I think they show more confidence in their kids during camp anyway and hype up their prospects that helps build their confidence. Let's face it, the Yotes will never become a Cup contender through free agency and we have to start with our kids and I'm starting to wonder whether BF is the right man for the task at hand. I think we have some solid prospects and we need to make sure the right staff is in place, one that not only develops them but allows them to step in with confidence. Who is the last rookie to step in and look like he belongs and hasn't missed a beat in doing so?

My comment about Mara and Ferrence fighting was that they must have been frustrated at being dominated by a kid line. They reacted out of frustration and took themselves out of the game out of embarrassment.

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Old
10-02-2003, 10:32 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye
Leafs prospects Stajan and Coliacovo each got a point again last night. stevex you have to be disappointed and concerned about the lack of production by our prospects compared to many teams prospects throughout the league. I think we have a total of 1 or 2 pts. by our prospects in 5 xgames. Is it coaching, player selection or scouting? That's the question I pose here.
Well its not likely to be scouting since the majority of neutral informed opinions recognise Phoenix has a good collection of prospects, plus winning the competitive Pacific rookie tourney tells us that. Not sure what you mean by player selection? Coaching is a definite possibility but again its hard to criticise the coach when these guys are arguably getting good chances to shine, playing on strong lines.

Quote:
Frolov wasn't really a reach to compare to Taffe. I realize the Yotes did not draft Jeff in the 1st round but he is a year older than Frolov and dominated college hockey. Frolov had 17goals and 13 assists in 42 games in Russia hardly dominenet numbers but he is gifted no doubt.
Branko is in his 3rd year of pro and 2 years older than Frolov so not really a good comparison.
Branko has played about 90 NHL games compared to Frolov's 80. Much closer than Taffe's 22 games of 5 minute cameos. Also 17 goals and 30 points is actually considered elite/dominant numbers for a rookie to put up in the RSL pro league and technically Frolov is also in his 3rd year of professional hockey. Im just pointing out it isnt fair to include Frolov and exclude Radivojevic.

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I just think other teams play their prospects more and in better situations. It's not unusual to see Stajan and Coliacovo on the ice with Sundin and Mogilny on the power play or in the last minute of the game. I think they show more confidence in their kids during camp anyway and hype up their prospects that helps build their confidence. Let's face it, the Yotes will never become a Cup contender through free agency and we have to start with our kids and I'm starting to wonder whether BF is the right man for the task at hand. I think we have some solid prospects and we need to make sure the right staff is in place, one that not only develops them but allows them to step in with confidence. Who is the last rookie to step in and look like he belongs and hasn't missed a beat in doing so?
Vaananen then Radivojevic then Kolanos. Looks like one every year and thats with a meagre farm team of prospects from the last regime. I do wonder if Francis is the right guy but its not that easy to criticise what they have done with the young players. Dont forget Sjostrom two years ago was being declared a bust as well. The Yotes dont have a Sundin or Mogilny to play with our rookies but I dont think you can argue they havent been playing them with good linemates.

Quote:
My comment about Mara and Ferrence fighting was that they must have been frustrated at being dominated by a kid line. They reacted out of frustration and took themselves out of the game out of embarrassment.
Maybe so but not necessarily. It could just as easily have been Flinn and Brennan kicking things off.

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