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Old
01-03-2014, 05:32 PM
  #26
The Lehner
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Muckler did so much damage. What an absolute moron he was.
QFT - Muckler and his staff barely acquired any NHL level players during his entry drafts from 2002 through 2007...just terrible. Taking Brian Lee at #9 was questioned by many at the time of the pick, and rightfully so.

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Old
01-03-2014, 05:32 PM
  #27
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When we drafted Lee we had very good depth at centre. What we needed was a large puck moving defenceman. This is like reviewing past relationships. There will be winners, loses, keepers and the ones that got away. Even if the one at the time was a sure thing.
???


Spezza (coming off ''just'' 55 points and a NHL healthy scratch playoff), Fisher (career high 18 goals and 38 points), sophomore Vermette who spent most his rookie season playing the wing and rookie Kelly

vs

Redden, Chara, Phillips, Volchenkov, Meszaros, Pothier, even Schubert was a decent prospect no?

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01-03-2014, 05:47 PM
  #28
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if we drafted Kopy, maybe we would have finished higher in karlsson's draft year, and a trade up wouldn't be possible..

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01-03-2014, 05:48 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
???


Spezza (coming off ''just'' 55 points and a NHL healthy scratch playoff), Fisher (career high 18 goals and 38 points), sophomore Vermette who spent most his rookie season playing the wing and rookie Kelly

vs

Redden, Chara, Phillips, Volchenkov, Meszaros, Pothier, even Schubert was a decent prospect no?
During the draft it was made very clear by Senators staff that there was a need to replace Redden in the near future and that they did not believe they had anyone "in the pipes" to do so. They viewed the NHL as getting more mobile and the recent removal of the two-line pass rule made them wary to not have someone to replace Redden's then legendary "first-pass." This was further cemented when Redden was chosen of Chara.

Lee was a pick assumed to fill a future need and no players around that pick were projected to be that "PMD" that was all the rage back then. As a result Muckler made a reach pick for Brian Lee (though it has been noted several times that Murray advised him to take Marc Staal even though he did not project as a particularly talented puck mover).

No doubt Lee was a bad pick and a hell of a reach but the other options for that type of player (Ryan Parent perhaps) were equally bad.

Brian Lee is the picture perfect example of why you never pick a player for a future need.

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01-03-2014, 05:59 PM
  #30
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If u wanted d u take Bourdon or staal... Not lee

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01-03-2014, 06:05 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by HSF View Post
If u wanted d u take Bourdon or staal... Not lee
Neither put up even .5 PPG in their draft years. They weren't what big Muck wanted.

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01-03-2014, 06:12 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSF View Post
If u wanted d u take Bourdon or staal... Not lee
I wanted Marc Staal in that draft when in Ottawa's turn to pick at #9.

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01-03-2014, 06:15 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSF View Post
If u wanted d u take Bourdon or staal... Not lee
That was the shocker, everybody expected the Sens to take Staal.

Mucks tried to hit a home run and struck out.

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01-03-2014, 06:24 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
???


Spezza (coming off ''just'' 55 points and a NHL healthy scratch playoff), Fisher (career high 18 goals and 38 points), sophomore Vermette who spent most his rookie season playing the wing and rookie Kelly

vs

Redden, Chara, Phillips, Volchenkov, Meszaros, Pothier, even Schubert was a decent prospect no?
The Senators had 3 young centers that they expected to be in the picture for a long time in Spezza, Fisher and Vermette. Smolinski was a veteran presence capable of playing anywhere in the lineup. I think they also had Arnason that year, or maybe they traded for him later. There wasn't expected to be much room at center for years to come. Part of the reason why they were willing to part with Laich to bring in Bondra the season before the lockout.

The defense was stacked, but lacked depth. Everyone figured Ottawa was looking for a defenseman, the shocker was that they picked Lee when there were other guys available that were believed to be better prospects.

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01-03-2014, 06:34 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
When we drafted Lee we had very good depth at centre. What we needed was a large puck moving defenceman. This is like reviewing past relationships. There will be winners, loses, keepers and the ones that got away. Even if the one at the time was a sure thing.

Remember the people that got mad when we picked Zib over Couts or Cowen over MPS?
And thus why drafting by need is a terrible technique.

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01-03-2014, 06:34 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
When we drafted Lee we had very good depth at centre. What we needed was a large puck moving defenceman. This is like reviewing past relationships. There will be winners, loses, keepers and the ones that got away. Even if the one at the time was a sure thing.

Remember the people that got mad when we picked Zib over Couts or Cowen over MPS?
I didn't want anything to do with Couts. I was hoping he gets picked early so Landy and Larsson dropped to us. After everyone was gone, I was expecting Zib to get picked from all the reports of Sens loving him and him moving up the boards.

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01-03-2014, 07:37 PM
  #37
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Biggest drafting mistake ever was not pulling the trigger to send daigle to the Nordiques, No matter who was first, even Sydney Crosby, Id still probably make that deal.

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01-03-2014, 07:59 PM
  #38
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Trading two second round picks to Detroit for the one late first round pick was a mistake. We took Matt Puemple while Detroit used our two seconds to take Xavier Ouellet and Tomas Jurco. So far it's looking like Detroit get the two best players.

Both Noesen and Puemple look like bad picks in hindsight considering that Brandon Saad was available. A lot of teams passed on Saad for reasons I'll never understand.

Jim O'Brien instead of P.K. Subban, Wayne Simmonds or Jamie Benn stings.

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01-03-2014, 08:13 PM
  #39
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A significant percent of every teams picks were ones where they didn't take the best player. We have a pretty good draft history

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Old
01-03-2014, 08:14 PM
  #40
Ed Wood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoutineSp00nZ View Post
That was the shocker, everybody expected the Sens to take Staal.

Mucks tried to hit a home run and struck out.
Chara and Redden were both due to be UFAs at seasons end. Defensively minded Staal or Bourdon would be considered good replacements for Chara. Drafting Lee who, head scout Frank Jay believed was an offensive dynamo, tells me that the team believed at that point in time that they were more likely to hold on to Chara than Redden.

Ultimately Frank Jay lost his job over this. It may be that Murray would have dumped him anyway but Jay's insistence on drafting Lee made his dismissal easy.

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01-03-2014, 08:33 PM
  #41
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Lee is the obvious choice when you talked about last 10 years. Since BM took over, has not really made any mistakes yet in 1st (2007 should not really count as a Murray draft). However, it is too early for some of the picks, especially for the 3 1st rders from 2011 draft, no idea what Noesen and Puempel can become yet, statistically it is going to happen at some point that we get a dud/bust player under Murray. So I am going to say that either Noesen or Puempel does not become an impact NHL player. However, Lazar, Ceci, Zib, Karlsson, Cowen and others more than make up for it.

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01-03-2014, 08:35 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wood View Post
Trading two second round picks to Detroit for the one late first round pick was a mistake. We took Matt Puemple while Detroit used our two seconds to take Xavier Ouellet and Tomas Jurco. So far it's looking like Detroit get the two best players.

Both Noesen and Puemple look like bad picks in hindsight considering that Brandon Saad was available. A lot of teams passed on Saad for reasons I'll never understand.

Jim O'Brien instead of P.K. Subban, Wayne Simmonds or Jamie Benn stings.
2011
I don't like that detroit trade either. But i like puempel and don't want to say too much till he gets a shot. He could end up a good nhl scorer.
But for fun.....
Would have liked Graovac instead of Fransoo, Lowry instead of Filatov experiment, Jurco/Saad & Kucherov/Salomaki/Ouellet/Sproul/Karlsson instead of Puempel, maybe Trochek over Prince (not sure about that one)
Zibby is looking good though

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01-03-2014, 08:52 PM
  #43
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Drafts can be crap shoots, and I don't expect every high pick to pan out. It looks to me as though the Sens under Murray have done a solid job stocking up the cupboards after Muckler left them bare. I personally love picking up Lehner in the 2nd round.

Seeing as this is a draft bust thread I'll toss my name in with those who pick Lee and Daigle. As high picks those busts altered the course of the franchise. Just imagine what would have happened if Daigle developed into a Crosby.

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01-03-2014, 09:02 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fringie View Post
Lee is the obvious choice when you talked about last 10 years. Since BM took over, has not really made any mistakes yet in 1st (2007 should not really count as a Murray draft). However, it is too early for some of the picks, especially for the 3 1st rders from 2011 draft, no idea what Noesen and Puempel can become yet, statistically it is going to happen at some point that we get a dud/bust player under Murray. So I am going to say that either Noesen or Puempel does not become an impact NHL player. However, Lazar, Ceci, Zib, Karlsson, Cowen and others more than make up for it.
I know this is a popular position, but did we actually change our entire scouting department between 2007 and 2008?

I'm pretty sure the answer to that is a big old NO.

So nobody wants to lay blame on Murray for the JOB pick, but I suspect that that is not the case for the Erik Karlsson pick one year later.

What I heard, sorry what I meant to say was "propose" was that Murray was hell bent on drafting Joe Colborne, but that Andreas Forsberg convinced him (thankfully) to draft EK.

Ultimately his decision and responsability, just like the JOB pick.

As for JOB...what was anyone expecting out of a #29 pick? When you get to that point of the draft, you're lucky to get anything.

JOB actually looked like he was going to be a player too. I wish I knew what happened to that guy because he went from the penthouse to the outhouse in a real hurry.

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01-03-2014, 09:06 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by StefanW View Post
Drafts can be crap shoots, and I don't expect every high pick to pan out. It looks to me as though the Sens under Murray have done a solid job stocking up the cupboards after Muckler left them bare. I personally love picking up Lehner in the 2nd round.

Seeing as this is a draft bust thread I'll toss my name in with those who pick Lee and Daigle. As high picks those busts altered the course of the franchise. Just imagine what would have happened if Daigle developed into a Crosby.
As much crap as Muckler does get for his drafting, which to be fair is completely abysmal everywhere he's ever been (Erik Rasmussen anyone?) the team was very good in those years, and we always picked late, and if you review the drafts, we did end up with quite a few NHL'ers in the Muckler drafts.

Nobody spectacular, but still NHL players.

Of course the one time he was gifted a high pick and had two sure things on the board, he blew it as badly as he could have.

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01-03-2014, 09:25 PM
  #46
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Saying Subban is insane, because every team passed on him. Kopitar is slightly similar, since about six teams passed on him as well.

It's too soon to judge 2013.

You could make an argument for 2012 when they took Ceci, and Hertl who was ranked similar to Ceci was chosen two picks later.

Zibanejad in 2011 is looking like the right pick. Currently his numbers prorate at 25 goals, and that is with him being all over the line up.

In 2010, by proxy, Ottawa eventually turned the 16th overall pick into Kyle Turris. Nobody in the vicinity of the 16th overall pick has turned out as good as Turris. Keep in mind, Ottawa added a second to the deal that eventually gained them Turris, who was drafted third overall during his respective draft year.

In 2009, Ottawa picked Cowen. Unless you think Paajarvi would have been a better choice, it doesn't seem like there is anybody else who broke out in the vicinity of that pick.

In 2008, they chose Karlsson. I still think they were fools for not taking Joe Colbourne.....but I can live with Karlsson.

So the only mistake in the last few years would have been not choosing Hertl. But, in five years time, you never know, Ceci might be a top 2 defender and Hertl might peak early. (Not saying that is likely, but it's a bit early to judge Ceci since defenders some times take longer to develop.)

I would say, looking at only the first round, Ottawa's drafting has been almost impeccable over the last five years.

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01-03-2014, 09:37 PM
  #47
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You know what is interesting is how many great players we have picked over the years outside of the top 10.

Hossa was a 12
Havlat a 26
EK 15
Ceci 15 (maybe early to call him great but things are looking good)
Lazar 17 (ok I'm seriously projecting here)
Chanks at 21

We can still hope for Puempel.

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Old
01-03-2014, 09:40 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalfredsson View Post

In 2010, by proxy, Ottawa eventually turned the 16th overall pick into Kyle Turris. Nobody in the vicinity of the 16th overall pick has turned out as good as Turris. Keep in mind, Ottawa added a second to the deal that eventually gained them Turris, who was drafted third overall during his respective draft year.

.
That 16th pick was Vladimir Tarsenko. I'd take Tarasenko over Turris every day of the week. I'm projecting great things for the Russian. Not to mention the second rounder we gave up for Turris.

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Old
01-03-2014, 09:49 PM
  #49
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Jakub Klepis. Didn't ever see anything special about him going back to the WHL. He got us one of my all time favourite Sens though.
Hands and an edge. Ie. Your prototypical power-forward pick from the late 80s early 90s.


Mean mofos that could put up points.

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01-03-2014, 09:49 PM
  #50
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In 2009, Ottawa picked Cowen. Unless you think Paajarvi would have been a better choice, it doesn't seem like there is anybody else who broke out in the vicinity of that pick.
Can't help but compare Lazar and Cowen, in that both were projected top talents before their respective draft years, but dropped in their draft years to us. Lazar dropped because he didn't put up numbers (defensive role), and Cowen dropped due to injury concerns (knee surgery).

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