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Old
03-09-2014, 01:03 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
Then they turn it into a "I knew he was going to blow up in Dallas, but it doesn't matter. He's doing it against awful teams, inconsistently...and he won't show up in the post season."

Over it. Get drunk Boston. Y'all need more than a couple of drinks.
Yeah .. because the Eastern Conference has teams like Chicago, Anaheim, and St. Louis at the top, and then 2nd tier of San Jose, Colorado, and Los Angeles (somehow frequently mediocre in the season and amazing in the playoffs).

The Western Conference chance of winning the Cup might be slim after the beating everyone is going to take playing one another.

The East has two elite teams right now, and then a ton of teams that are all lumped together.

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03-09-2014, 01:04 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Klockis View Post
At the time Eriksson was regarded as a first line 70 point winger with great two-way ability.

Seguin was a 60 point player with a lot of question marks, who was forced to play wing.

At the time the trade made sense for the Bruins and still do if they win a cup.
Absolutely this trade made sense for the bruins. Smith is real good, Eriksson will have better years than this one. Who knows what morrow will be. I think boston does this trade even if they knew how everyone who play this year. If you said, yeah, Eriksson's going to have a tough year, but Smith is going to be a 22 yr old 2nd line 60pt guy, and Morrow will play in the minors and get decent reviews on his progression. Btw you'll be 2nd in the east and prob a lock of the conf final against a team that you crushed in last years conf final, all doing that while decreasing your long term salary restrictions. Boston does this trade 10 times out of ten. Dallas of course does this 10 out of 10 as well.

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03-09-2014, 06:45 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Klockis View Post
At the time Eriksson was regarded as a first line 70 point winger with great two-way ability.

Seguin was a 60 point player with a lot of question marks, who was forced to play wing.

At the time the trade made sense for the Bruins and still do if they win a cup.
Only if you were incapable of rational thought.

Since Seguin was placed in the top 6 after his rookie year, he was the Bruins top offensive player (while getting the ****** end of the stick in regards to ice time and PP time). This on a team that was a top competitor for the cup. He was among team leaders in plus/minus and helped create what most considered Boston's top line during that time.

The only time questions mark arose were in last years playoffs and what most people neglect to mention is that Seguin was hardly the weakest link on that line. He simply couldn't carry the load by himself. Both Bergeron and Marchand suffered late season concussions that neither fully recovered from until well into the playoffs last year, if at all. Throughout the first round Seguin was the guy getting his chances on that line but nothing seemed to want to come together. Meanwhile, the guy Boston just gave up a 2nd/cond 1st for was stinking it up on the 3rd line. Julien made the call and switched the two. Revisionist history will tell you it was due to Seguins performance, actual history will tell you it was Juliens attempt to balance out the three lines.

People also forget Seguin then came to Julien and asked him what he needed to do to contribute if he was having a hard time scoring, and they also gloss over the fact that Julien praised his game throughout the first and second round. Could be because that doesn't fit the agenda of dragging his name through the mud. Doesn't really change the fact that that third line with Kelly, Seguin, and Paille was easily Boston's best and most productive in the finals.

Now they have Ericsson, a guy who struggled last year and is struggling again now. He's not an elite player offensively, and he isn't at Bergeron's level defensively. He's a sound winger sure, but he isn't putting up 70 points in Boston's system where wingers get 15 - 17 minutes a night. No chance. And don't get me wrong, the pieces Dallas sent Boston are fine, good NHL pieces. But the idea that they gave up a likely franchise #1 center is a kick in the groin.

Winning a cup makes everything a win, many Bruins fans now justify the Thornton trade with the 2011 cup win. Those of us with half a clue though know it doesn't mean the Bruins made a good deal with San Jose. Same idea here, if Boston manages to win it all it will be because they have a solid team. Won't change the fact that they gave up a huge piece of future for some rather average parts.

None of this is new either. Look how Kessel was railroaded in Boston, it's no wonder he did what he had to to get out. Literally all the same things were said. Too soft, only scored against weak teams (believe KPD had a few articles on just this subject), bad attitude, too perimeter'ish, couldn't score when it mattered. The Bruins fanbase is an odd one. In many cases there is almost a resentment for players who have natural skill and don't have to work their tail off or fight their way to get into the NHL. Guys like Kessel, Seguin, and Thornton are shipped out of town because they failed to live up to expectations even though all three were the best on the team in most offensive categories.


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Old
03-09-2014, 07:08 PM
  #79
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*Eriksson.

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Old
03-09-2014, 10:39 PM
  #80
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The one and only reason Seguin was traded is because the lockout and new CBA brought the cap crashing down. Boston had to trade one of their big contract players. With Chara getting up there in age, the Bruins decided to keep their more established players over Seguin because they were looking to do as much now with little care for three seasons from now. The trade had nothing to do with the BS floated by the Bruins and sold by the Boston media about Seguin's attitude or the system of his toughness. It was about money. All of the extra talk about attitude and toughness was merely a marketing ploy to convince fans that a 2nd overall pick and future star wasn't traded for money reasons.

If the lockout and cap adjustment hadn't happened, Seguin would still be a Bruin today and the Boston media would be singing his praises. If you take away the cap crunch, there is no way the Bruins trade Seguin for an older winger who wasn't any better than Seguin even at the time plus a handful of kids.

As a trade to solve a cap problem, it makes sense for the Bruins. As a trade to make the team a continued Cup contender, it doesn't. The Bruins will still remain a contender even with one bad trade because they're a great team full of fantastic players.

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03-10-2014, 04:38 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Only if you were incapable of rational thought.

Since Seguin was placed in the top 6 after his rookie year, he was the Bruins top offensive player (while getting the ****** end of the stick in regards to ice time and PP time). This on a team that was a top competitor for the cup. He was among team leaders in plus/minus and helped create what most considered Boston's top line during that time.

The only time questions mark arose were in last years playoffs and what most people neglect to mention is that Seguin was hardly the weakest link on that line. He simply couldn't carry the load by himself. Both Bergeron and Marchand suffered late season concussions that neither fully recovered from until well into the playoffs last year, if at all. Throughout the first round Seguin was the guy getting his chances on that line but nothing seemed to want to come together. Meanwhile, the guy Boston just gave up a 2nd/cond 1st for was stinking it up on the 3rd line. Julien made the call and switched the two. Revisionist history will tell you it was due to Seguins performance, actual history will tell you it was Juliens attempt to balance out the three lines.

People also forget Seguin then came to Julien and asked him what he needed to do to contribute if he was having a hard time scoring, and they also gloss over the fact that Julien praised his game throughout the first and second round. Could be because that doesn't fit the agenda of dragging his name through the mud. Doesn't really change the fact that that third line with Kelly, Seguin, and Paille was easily Boston's best and most productive in the finals.

Now they have Ericsson, a guy who struggled last year and is struggling again now. He's not an elite player offensively, and he isn't at Bergeron's level defensively. He's a sound winger sure, but he isn't putting up 70 points in Boston's system where wingers get 15 - 17 minutes a night. No chance. And don't get me wrong, the pieces Dallas sent Boston are fine, good NHL pieces. But the idea that they gave up a likely franchise #1 center is a kick in the groin.

Winning a cup makes everything a win, many Bruins fans now justify the Thornton trade with the 2011 cup win. Those of us with half a clue though know it doesn't mean the Bruins made a good deal with San Jose. Same idea here, if Boston manages to win it all it will be because they have a solid team. Won't change the fact that they gave up a huge piece of future for some rather average parts.

None of this is new either. Look how Kessel was railroaded in Boston, it's no wonder he did what he had to to get out. Literally all the same things were said. Too soft, only scored against weak teams (believe KPD had a few articles on just this subject), bad attitude, too perimeter'ish, couldn't score when it mattered. The Bruins fanbase is an odd one. In many cases there is almost a resentment for players who have natural skill and don't have to work their tail off or fight their way to get into the NHL. Guys like Kessel, Seguin, and Thornton are shipped out of town because they failed to live up to expectations even though all three were the best on the team in most offensive categories.
You are right. But as Troy said it was mostly a question of money and Chiarelli thought he got a good deal. But I was wrong. Great post.

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03-10-2014, 06:34 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
*Eriksson.
Damnit... I'm horrible at getting that right.

And to be clear, I don't dislike either Smith or Eriksson, and am hopeful on Morrow. Both Smith and Eriksson play styles I like. There is constant justification of the trade on the Bruins board however in regard to the trade which often ends up as demeaning of Seguin and it's ridiculous. Meanwhile there are threads turning around stating Krejci or Bergeron would be 80 point guys with more ice time in a different system (like Dallas'). Both get pretty much exactly what Seguin gets now in regards to TOI and are stil 60/70 point guys.

The board wouldn't know how to identify potential elite offensive talent if it whip kicked them in the face.

My main gripe however is that Boston gave up way too soon on him and did their damndest to mold him into a Kessel clone. He saw all of 5 periods at center in Boston and apparently that was enough for the board experts to say he'd never make it at that position. Yet here he is, looking like a damn good center outproducing anything Boston has.

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03-10-2014, 08:21 AM
  #83
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Tried posting some stuff on the Main Board but... it gets washed away in snipes and - whatever.

I'm a Bruins fan and am really happy Seguin is becoming the player I always thought he would be. Disappointing it's not in a Bruins uniform but am happy for you and your franchise. I've thought all along that he would be the best of the young kids over the past few years and that he could be as good as Tavares (if not better) once he puts it all together. Just a scary amount of talent and can take over games. I thought and still think the Oilers made the wrong choice taking Hall, but then again with Boston's centre depth Hall probably would've been a better fit on the B's also.

Kaoz described the playoffs really well earlier - snakebit and as much trying to get Jagr going. All that I'll add though is that once he was demoted he just couldn't seem to get it back into gear which was a bit frustrating.

Chiarelli has been really good at signing his core players early and did the same with Seguin but in this instance they would've been better off signing a bridge contract. 2 years 4 mil a year or something.

Not really sure what was happening behind closed doors. And I am definitely of the mind-set that you need to wait on 20-21 year old kids to 'get it'. Both Bergeron and Chara alluded to 'something' but I have no idea.

As far as the trade goes. I think it works well for both teams. Gives Dallas a franchise 1st line centre and someone to build around and re-stocks the Bruins depth that they would have had to sacrifice with Seguin in the fold. I don't like that they traded Seguin as I wanted to watch him play with a Spoked B but I don't mind the return they got. Boston's been a good team for awhile now so their players are getting paid well but the team is built on being able to roll out 4 lines and it makes it hard to keep that depth. I have a lot of faith in Eriksson and he's starting to find his groove after the move and concussions and such. Smith is still playing pretty well despite being snakebit himself nowadays. Morrow should be a mainstay within two years time. Fraser actually looked pretty decent on his call-ups. It also saved the Bruins enough cap space that they could get creative and sign Iginla which shouldn't be overlooked. It makes it more palatable that the Bruins are still a very good team.

I have a much different view of both Seguin and Thornton than I do of Kessel who kind of forced his way out. I've had a soft spot for SJ ever since the Thornton deal (and the Bruins got 'not much') and I have a soft spot for Dallas now that you have Segs (and Benn is great to watch).

p.s. I would think if any fanbase can understand - it's y'all, as the trade is slightly reminiscent of Iggy for Niewy.

Best of luck! Make the playoffs! And take out a few of those top teams.

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03-10-2014, 08:27 AM
  #84
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p.s. I hate when people downplay accomplishment like 5 point games saying 'he only runs up the score' or 'only scores against bad teams'.

It's just - dumb.

Half the time it's a blow-out because that player has a 4 or 5 point night.

Goes back to the days of watching Kent Nilsson playing for the Flames in the 80's that I've been getting in that conversation. A player has a couple of 4 point games or something and it raises expectations ridiculously and people think if they're not getting 4 points than they've disappeared or something. Brutal line of thinking. I'll take the player who can have those games all day every day.

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03-10-2014, 10:15 AM
  #85
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Great to see that not all B's fans have the same mindset.

It's refreshing.

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03-10-2014, 11:04 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by b in vancouver View Post
Tried posting some stuff on the Main Board but... it gets washed away in snipes and - whatever.

I'm a Bruins fan and am really happy Seguin is becoming the player I always thought he would be. Disappointing it's not in a Bruins uniform but am happy for you and your franchise. I've thought all along that he would be the best of the young kids over the past few years and that he could be as good as Tavares (if not better) once he puts it all together. Just a scary amount of talent and can take over games. I thought and still think the Oilers made the wrong choice taking Hall, but then again with Boston's centre depth Hall probably would've been a better fit on the B's also.

Kaoz described the playoffs really well earlier - snakebit and as much trying to get Jagr going. All that I'll add though is that once he was demoted he just couldn't seem to get it back into gear which was a bit frustrating.

Chiarelli has been really good at signing his core players early and did the same with Seguin but in this instance they would've been better off signing a bridge contract. 2 years 4 mil a year or something.

Not really sure what was happening behind closed doors. And I am definitely of the mind-set that you need to wait on 20-21 year old kids to 'get it'. Both Bergeron and Chara alluded to 'something' but I have no idea.

As far as the trade goes. I think it works well for both teams. Gives Dallas a franchise 1st line centre and someone to build around and re-stocks the Bruins depth that they would have had to sacrifice with Seguin in the fold. I don't like that they traded Seguin as I wanted to watch him play with a Spoked B but I don't mind the return they got. Boston's been a good team for awhile now so their players are getting paid well but the team is built on being able to roll out 4 lines and it makes it hard to keep that depth. I have a lot of faith in Eriksson and he's starting to find his groove after the move and concussions and such. Smith is still playing pretty well despite being snakebit himself nowadays. Morrow should be a mainstay within two years time. Fraser actually looked pretty decent on his call-ups. It also saved the Bruins enough cap space that they could get creative and sign Iginla which shouldn't be overlooked. It makes it more palatable that the Bruins are still a very good team.

I have a much different view of both Seguin and Thornton than I do of Kessel who kind of forced his way out. I've had a soft spot for SJ ever since the Thornton deal (and the Bruins got 'not much') and I have a soft spot for Dallas now that you have Segs (and Benn is great to watch).

p.s. I would think if any fanbase can understand - it's y'all, as the trade is slightly reminiscent of Iggy for Niewy.

Best of luck! Make the playoffs! And take out a few of those top teams.
This has been good stuff from the Boston fans. I do think Seguin was snakebit in the playoffs. I saw an article where he was actually putting up above average numbers in his already considerable shot totals. I think the whole board underestimates just how streaky 95% of all NHL scorers really are. And I have to say that Segs defense, back checking explicitly, has been way better than expected. He uses his speed to get back and break up the rush. I credit this to Boston's system, Ruff, and his move to center. He has way more ice to use his speed and it's harder to "inadvertently" interfere. He gets to use his wheels to greater effect.

Loui made every transition fairly slowly. I think he will be slow to come to full fruition in boston. He is starting to show his true colors just now. He is as steady as they come and he makes all of the little plays so reliably. And he can dazzle offensively, so slick, he just isn't a physically aggressive player. I think that is where he maybe doesn't fit Boston perfectly which seems to play a physical game even when the skill level is high. He isn't soft. Just not aggressive.

I can tell you a lot of teams are glad he left the west.

But yeah, Segs is a legit #1 center who wasn't going to supplant Kreici or Bergeron any time soon and is a guy that really needs to be lead horse to show his true colors. A final note is Seguin and Benn having such crazy chemistry. That stuff is special and has taken both of their games to a new level. That was a little bit lucky IMO.

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03-10-2014, 11:33 AM
  #87
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NHL 1st Star of the Week.

Quote:
Mark Stepneski ‏@StarsInsideEdge

Tyler Seguin is the NHL's first star of the week.
League office must have made a mistake. Must have checked the wrong box.

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03-10-2014, 11:38 AM
  #88
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NHL 1st Star of the Week.



League office must have made a mistake. Must have checked the wrong box.
Must have forgot to deduct the multi-point nights...

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03-10-2014, 11:44 AM
  #89
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Must have forgot to deduct the multi-point nights...
This is going to eventually get old, and I'm sure it already is for some ... but damn it still makes me smile.

The fact it's such an absurd thing to say ... and that it's been said by multiple self proclaimed hockey fans gives it some staying power for humor.

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03-10-2014, 11:47 AM
  #90
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He scores when he wants
He scores when he waaaants
Tyler Seguin's an alcoholic son of a gun
He scores when he wants

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03-10-2014, 12:12 PM
  #91
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He scores when he wants
He scores when he waaaants
Tyler Seguin's an alcoholic son of a gun
He scores when he wants

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03-10-2014, 12:26 PM
  #92
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This is going to eventually get old, and I'm sure it already is for some ... but damn it still makes me smile.

The fact it's such an absurd thing to say ... and that it's been said by multiple self proclaimed hockey fans gives it some staying power for humor.
I'm just waiting for Razor to pick it up when Seguin has his next hat trick... "And another scoreless night for Tyler Seguin!"

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03-10-2014, 01:46 PM
  #93
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http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...e=nhl&id=29519

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"Pretty much," said the former Boston Bruins forward. "Usually, the last few years I'm used to trying to play for first place or third place in the conference at this time of year. But this playoff push has really made our team go to the next level. We've got a group of guys that's really bought in together. This is the most fun I've had in hockey in a while."

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03-10-2014, 02:13 PM
  #94
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I imagine it's a lot more fun when you are "THE guy" rather than a cog in the wheel like he was in Boston.

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03-10-2014, 02:13 PM
  #95
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I think that had to be the case with a guy like Seguin. Im not sure how it affects someone's "fun" if they are put on a top tier team in their rookie season and a SC champ the year after. Not that its comparable to real life, but I purposely never win the stanley cup in the first several years of the EA NHL games because its not really fun in the same way as fighting for it is. Where the Bruins had a sense of responsibility and urgency, the Stars have a sense of excitement and I think that has to be awesome for a young core of players. There is something cool about being an integral part of an up and coming/dark horse team.

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03-10-2014, 02:32 PM
  #96
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I think that had to be the case with a guy like Seguin. Im not sure how it affects someone's "fun" if they are put on a top tier team in their rookie season and a SC champ the year after. Not that its comparable to real life, but I purposely never win the stanley cup in the first several years of the EA NHL games because its not really fun in the same way as fighting for it is. Where the Bruins had a sense of responsibility and urgency, the Stars have a sense of excitement and I think that has to be awesome for a young core of players. There is something cool about being an integral part of an up and coming/dark horse team.

Yep, this is a team Seguin can see blossom from the beginning. He will appreciate this team more, because he is seeing the direct effect his play is having on the club.

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03-10-2014, 03:13 PM
  #97
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Probably helps he's not under the microscope of the Boston media, and has a group of guys he's more of age with as well.

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03-10-2014, 04:55 PM
  #98
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tyler's the friggen man and y'all down in dallas are fortunate to have him. as a loyal bruins fan i certainly miss him but have always had faith in chiarelli doing what's best for the team, not necessarily any individual. happy for you guys and happy for tyler....


oh and pevs!

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03-10-2014, 04:56 PM
  #99
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Well it also probably helps to play in Ruff's run and gun style versus Boston's stifling defense 1st. Not to mention center where he can do whatever he wants instead of wing and the requirements Julian has.

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03-10-2014, 11:04 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
This is going to eventually get old, and I'm sure it already is for some ... but damn it still makes me smile.

The fact it's such an absurd thing to say ... and that it's been said by multiple self proclaimed hockey fans gives it some staying power for humor.
I don't want to take anything away from his bursts of offense, and at least from memory we've needed most of those points in any of those given big games. Having said that, there is something a little troubling that he goes scoreless so often. Let's no be so quick to swing the opposite way of his doubters to not lend an ear to a pretty legitimate criticism. We're not in a position to be picky about our scorers but generally speaking, I would rather more of a constant drip offensively than a guy who puts up goose eggs so often. Now, if he could add the constant drip part to his current game we would be talking about a 90+ point player. I would settle for more of a spreading out of production.

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