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Old
01-06-2014, 01:45 PM
  #76
dookie88
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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
Not necessarily...Grossmann, Schenn, if it were either on of them, would know it was their role to have Buff's backside, not to mention the high forward.
Schenn shoots right.
We won't pair two righties together when only having two.
Grossmann and Buff would be the least mobile (note: not slowest) pairing this team has seen since Hitchcock thought it was genius to play Chris Therien and Derian Hatcher together.
They'd have to have their legs unknotted after each period if put against shiffty, smaller forwards.

Trading Coburn at this point is a no go. He's been too good to give up for anything reasonable.
Simmonds is too important going forward.
Buff is not what we need.

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01-06-2014, 02:17 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
Schenn shoots right.
We won't pair two righties together when only having two.
Grossmann and Buff would be the least mobile (note: not slowest) pairing this team has seen since Hitchcock thought it was genius to play Chris Therien and Derian Hatcher together.
They'd have to have their legs unknotted after each period if put against shiffty, smaller forwards.

Trading Coburn at this point is a no go. He's been too good to give up for anything reasonable.
Simmonds is too important going forward.
Buff is not what we need.
I disagree. Grossmann isn't the plodding slowpoke some think he is. I've seen him win races for pucks and to get back after pinching more often than he loses. As for Schenn, the Flyers have played two left handers together quite often, so I don't see why they couldn't play two right handers if need be..third option, a good defensive D man is easier to find in free agency or in trade than a mobile/offensive D man.

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01-06-2014, 02:48 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by heilongjetsfan View Post
Jets fan coming in (mostly) peace. My mom was a flyers fan growing up and they've always been one of my "other teams."

There's another post going strong here on your boards that suggests a trade for buff and montoya revolving around Mark Streit and some other crap that you don't want laying around. Nothing against Streit as a player, I've really liked him even as far back as his days with the Habs, but obviously at this point in his career, his trade value is next to nothing.

Winnipeg BADLY needs an LHD who can handle 2nd pairing commitments or better. We would like to add some depth on the wings, too. I think a trade that could benefit both teams would go something like this:

To Winnipeg:
Braydon Coburn
Wayne Simmonds
2014 4th round pick
2015 2nd round pick *conditional on flyers making the east final*

To Philadelphia:
Dustin Byfuglien

That is all.

I know there's going to be a couple homers who are going to try to tell me I'm trying to rob you blind, or that Buff is a hack. The truth is he's an all-star invitee, has been a league leader in shot attempts, and points by defensemen for the last 4 years and is on a very reasonable contract.

Why do we want to move him? We don't even a little bit want to move him, but we've got too much talent (Buff, Bogo, Trouba, Redmond, Postma) in our RHD corps to benefit from all of it. You don't want Bogo or Trouba getting 3rd pairing minutes, they're just too good.

Let me know what you guys think of this - unless of course you're going to give me a bag of pucks counter. I haven't checked how it works for cap space for either team but someone let me know if it's not workable that way.
Throw in Kane and I would be more than interested =)

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01-06-2014, 02:59 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
I disagree. Grossmann isn't the plodding slowpoke some think he is. I've seen him win races for pucks and to get back after pinching more often than he loses. As for Schenn, the Flyers have played two left handers together quite often, so I don't see why they couldn't play two right handers if need be..third option, a good defensive D man is easier to find in free agency or in trade than a mobile/offensive D man.
They play left handers together because they don't have a choice.

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Old
01-06-2014, 05:11 PM
  #80
dookie88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
I disagree. Grossmann isn't the plodding slowpoke some think he is. I've seen him win races for pucks and to get back after pinching more often than he loses. As for Schenn, the Flyers have played two left handers together quite often, so I don't see why they couldn't play two right handers if need be..third option, a good defensive D man is easier to find in free agency or in trade than a mobile/offensive D man.
Well Grossmann still is rather immobile. Especially turning and such moves (my english is failing my a little right now).
Also lefties are far more trained in playing their off-side than righties are. I don't know the exact number, but there are a lot more lefties than righties, hence some have to play on the right which means they are used to do it.
What was the last pair of two right-handed D other than Jones-Weber (which was only formed because the Preds have more RHD than LHD and Josi got hurt)? Exactly.

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01-07-2014, 09:21 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
How about this proposal: The Jets keep Buff for another two and half seasons, miss the playoffs three more times, and then lose him for nothing in free agency.
That works for me as a proposal.
Not interested in Buff even if they were giving him away.
Overrated, Overpaid and Lazy.
Flyers are not one player from winning a cup, not worth trading for at all.

Bogosian, I would be interested in. Buff, not so much.

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01-07-2014, 10:26 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
That works for me as a proposal.
Not interested in Buff even if they were giving him away.
Overrated, Overpaid and Lazy.
Flyers are not one player from winning a cup, not worth trading for at all.

Bogosian, I would be interested in. Buff, not so much.
Yeah, one of the top point producing d men in the league past few years...can play 25 mins a game, huge shot, punishing hitter and can clear crease. Yeah, they'd have to PAY US to take a guy like that.

-How is he overrated? Several seem to share the (mis)perception that he's fat and lazy...(I don't see how you can play 25 mins a game, producing points at an elite level, and be fat and lazy at the same time)...and he didn't get selected for the Olympics and seems to get ragged on by many...with that kind of view on the player, I don't see how he's overrated.

-How is he overpaid? At 5.2 mil/yr, he makes less than many players who provide less production. So far this seaosn, he has more than twice as many points as Timonen who makes more than him, and he has 50%+ more production than guys like Chara, Carle, Streit, Cambpell, Phaneuf...all players making more than him.

-How is he lazy? He reportedly came into camp this season trimmed down and with an improved attitude. Even Burke recently acknowledged his better fitness level recently. Again 25+ mins a game...hard to say he's lazy imo.

Now, am I saying Buff is the answer for the Flyers D? No. There are other plays I'd rather have, but proven puck moving/scoring D are at a premium and hard to get in this league. Yes, he has shortcomings on the defensive end, but I believe he can be effectively deployed with a solid stay at home D partner to mitigate the risk and playing within a system where the team D is solid, like what Berube is trying to install here, would help...also a change of scenery and a new coaching staff could help him refine his defensive game. Again, I'm not saying Buff should be the prime target for the Flyers, but I think to dismiss him altogether, regardless of price, seems foolish. There has to be a way to harness that offensive talent without over-compromising the defense. So, in my opinion, Buff should be one of several options the Flyers brass should examine when looking to change the D. I'm pretty sure they have coveted him for a while now. It's possible he could come cheaper than expected if he's out of favor in WPG. If the price is high, I'd really try to look elsewhere.

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01-08-2014, 10:49 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by fauxflex View Post
Yeah, one of the top point producing d men in the league past few years...can play 25 mins a game, huge shot, punishing hitter and can clear crease. Yeah, they'd have to PAY US to take a guy like that.

-How is he overrated? Several seem to share the (mis)perception that he's fat and lazy...(I don't see how you can play 25 mins a game, producing points at an elite level, and be fat and lazy at the same time)...and he didn't get selected for the Olympics and seems to get ragged on by many...with that kind of view on the player, I don't see how he's overrated.

-How is he overpaid? At 5.2 mil/yr, he makes less than many players who provide less production. So far this seaosn, he has more than twice as many points as Timonen who makes more than him, and he has 50%+ more production than guys like Chara, Carle, Streit, Cambpell, Phaneuf...all players making more than him.

-How is he lazy? He reportedly came into camp this season trimmed down and with an improved attitude. Even Burke recently acknowledged his better fitness level recently. Again 25+ mins a game...hard to say he's lazy imo.

Now, am I saying Buff is the answer for the Flyers D? No. There are other plays I'd rather have, but proven puck moving/scoring D are at a premium and hard to get in this league. Yes, he has shortcomings on the defensive end, but I believe he can be effectively deployed with a solid stay at home D partner to mitigate the risk and playing within a system where the team D is solid, like what Berube is trying to install here, would help...also a change of scenery and a new coaching staff could help him refine his defensive game. Again, I'm not saying Buff should be the prime target for the Flyers, but I think to dismiss him altogether, regardless of price, seems foolish. There has to be a way to harness that offensive talent without over-compromising the defense. So, in my opinion, Buff should be one of several options the Flyers brass should examine when looking to change the D. I'm pretty sure they have coveted him for a while now. It's possible he could come cheaper than expected if he's out of favor in WPG. If the price is high, I'd really try to look elsewhere.
this right here thank you so many people can't grasp how good the guy really but my friend and him are best friends and he said he has no intentions of leaving Winnipeg due to how close he is to his family so unless we make an offer he can't refuse this does not happen, im sorry bubble busted

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01-08-2014, 11:04 AM
  #84
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You just proved some other peoples opinion of him by saying

'How is he lazy? He reportedly came into camp this season trimmed down and with an improved attitude'

That means he was Fat and possibly still over weight.
And his improved attitude could relate to him being lazy, you can still play 25 minutes and be lazy in other areas such as practice and diet.

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01-08-2014, 11:07 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Legion of Goon View Post
You just proved some other peoples opinion of him by saying

'How is he lazy? He reportedly came into camp this season trimmed down and with an improved attitude'

That means he was Fat and possibly still over weight.
And his improved attitude could relate to him being lazy, you can still play 25 minutes and be lazy in other areas such as practice and diet.
His weight is the most overblown thing, the guy is a big boy but despite that his top gear pretty damn impressive for anybody let alone a man of his stature.

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01-08-2014, 12:07 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Legion of Goon View Post
You just proved some other peoples opinion of him by saying

'How is he lazy? He reportedly came into camp this season trimmed down and with an improved attitude'

That means he was Fat and possibly still over weight.
And his improved attitude could relate to him being lazy, you can still play 25 minutes and be lazy in other areas such as practice and diet.
Well, I don't know the exact state of his conditioning or what have you, but reading between the lines, my point was that people can and do change...if Buff was indeed fat and lazy, he seems to have changed things in slimming down and bringing a better attitude/committment...yet people are still apt to label him with the perception that has been entrenched in their minds of the "fat and lazy" guy...regardless, the guy still seems to move rather well on the ice, for 25 minutes a game while producing points on an elite level...if that's what fat and lazy gives you, then where do I sign up!

P.S. Part of the reports from earlier this season cited that Buff was putting in extra practice time working on his shot and other things...and again he reportedly was losing weight...so, it seems like your speculative examples of practice habits/diet possibly being why he's labeled with the laziness seems off the mark etc. He has his flaws, but some people just seem to have a dislike for the guy which tends to bias their view of his game and value imo.

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01-08-2014, 01:33 PM
  #87
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He sucks defensively. I just have no interest in overpaying for a one dimensional dman. If we're giving up significant cost we need to get someone better than Buff.

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Old
01-09-2014, 04:17 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
He sucks defensively. I just have no interest in overpaying for a one dimensional dman. If we're giving up significant cost we need to get someone better than Buff.
No he doesn't. You have to look at the GAON/60 in the context on Winnipeg's bad goaltending. Of the 69 d-men who played 4000+ 5v5 minutes 2009-2013, Buff is 58th in on-ice SV% (.912) and 61st in PDO.

The Jets other big-minute d-men have similar numbers.

Hainsey -- 46th (.918)
Bogosian -- 55th (.913)
Enstrom -- 57th (.913)

For reference, Bryzgalov had a .916 5v5 SV% as a Flyer.


Buff's shots, Corsi and Fenwick differentials over the same time period are all very respectable considering the big minutes he plays.

FF%, 5v5 close -- 53.2% (22nd out of 160)
FA/20, 5v5 close -- 13.6 (74th out of 160)

CF%, 5v5 close -- 53.4% (21st out of 160)
CA/20, 5v5 close -- 17.9 (57th out of 160)

He gives up an middling amount of attempts and by no means does he have shut-down ability, but generates enough at the other end to counteract that and more.

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01-11-2014, 04:23 PM
  #89
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Buff moved to Wing tonight.

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01-11-2014, 05:10 PM
  #90
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Is the OP serious?

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01-11-2014, 09:18 PM
  #91
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Buff moved to Wing tonight.
yeah

I came to say that

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01-12-2014, 01:27 PM
  #92
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will the new coach in WIN put him back on D ??

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