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Defence and the salary cap

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Old
03-22-2014, 05:26 PM
  #1
Beige Van
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Defence and the salary cap

I was just poking around on capgeek. Assuming Subban + Markov are signed with a combined caphit of $13.5-$14 million, we will have $22 million locked up in our top 4 - most expensive in the NHL. Having this much tied up on D is going to make it difficult to resign Vanek. We would have the space (barely) for next season, but the season after we can anticipate substantial raises for Gally, Chuckie and potentially Tinordi and Beaulieu. Briere will be gone, at least. Going to be tight!

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03-22-2014, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beige Van View Post
I was just poking around on capgeek. Assuming Subban + Markov are signed with a combined caphit of $13.5-$14 million, we will have $22 million locked up in our top 4 - most expensive in the NHL. Having this much tied up on D is going to make it difficult to resign Vanek. We would have the space (barely) for next season, but the season after we can anticipate substantial raises for Gally, Chuckie and potentially Tinordi and Beaulieu. Briere will be gone, at least. Going to be tight!
Won't be surprised to see Emelin moved.

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03-22-2014, 05:30 PM
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Emelin/Gorges will be moved.

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03-22-2014, 05:38 PM
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Hope Gorges will be moved...

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03-23-2014, 08:33 AM
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Mats86
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Won't be surprised to see Emelin moved.
Emelin or Gorges traded for more offensive defenseman if Markov wants too many years

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03-23-2014, 08:57 AM
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We should not have the most expensive defensemen. Something is wrong with this picture.

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03-23-2014, 09:17 AM
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Kinda funny that people are suggesting Gorges be the one to be traded when he's been orders of magnitude more effective than Emelin this year and he's cheaper.


hf gonna hf

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03-23-2014, 09:27 AM
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Smoky Thompson
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Kinda funny that people are suggesting Gorges be the one to be traded when he's been orders of magnitude more effective than Emelin this year and he's cheaper.


hf gonna hf
There's still hope that Emelin regains his 2012-2013 form. Although that hope is fading...

We need to trade one of them if we're resigning Markov. Then hire a coach who'll give Beaulieu or Tinordi a top 4 role.

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03-23-2014, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Smoky Thompson View Post
There's still hope that Emelin regains his 2012-2013 form. Although that hope is fading...

We need to trade one of them if we're resigning Markov. Then hire a coach who'll give Beaulieu or Tinordi a top 4 role.
even at 2012-2013 form, which yes, I still think he can regain... that's still not as useful as gorges is to this team, which is a shame. I really love emelin.

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03-23-2014, 09:34 AM
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Smoky Thompson
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even at 2012-2013 form, which yes, I still think he can regain... that's still not as useful as gorges is to this team, which is a shame. I really love emelin.
They both bring value to the table. One is better offensively while one is much better in his own zone.

The shame would be Emelin's contract which forces MB to deal him.

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03-23-2014, 09:54 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Beige Van View Post
I was just poking around on capgeek. Assuming Subban + Markov are signed with a combined caphit of $13.5-$14 million, we will have $22 million locked up in our top 4 - most expensive in the NHL. Having this much tied up on D is going to make it difficult to resign Vanek. We would have the space (barely) for next season, but the season after we can anticipate substantial raises for Gally, Chuckie and potentially Tinordi and Beaulieu. Briere will be gone, at least. Going to be tight!
Next year is tight, but the season after shouldn't be problematic. The cap will go up again, Briere will be gone, buying out Bourque would cost us less than 1m against the cap by that point.

The more troubling issue is that at 22m our top-4 will still be deeply flawed.

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Old
03-23-2014, 10:08 AM
  #12
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Won't be surprised to see Emelin moved.
This is probably the correct move, and it's definitely time to invest in the forward group. Losing Emelin and Gionta and keeping MArkov/Subban/Vanek are no brainers if it can be done.

It will be quite the downer if we come into next year without a Vanek/Moulson type upgrade on the forward side and an overpriced defence corps.

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03-23-2014, 10:44 AM
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This is probably the correct move, and it's definitely time to invest in the forward group. Losing Emelin and Gionta and keeping MArkov/Subban/Vanek are no brainers if it can be done.

It will be quite the downer if we come into next year without a Vanek/Moulson type upgrade on the forward side and an overpriced defence corps.
I wouldn't write Emelin off just yet, nor would I undervalue Gorges' worth to the team. Still, one or the other is too much of the same thing, at roughly the same, inflated price tag. Emelin should have the physical edge over Gorges but, isn't playing that style currently.

Hopefully, and more importantly. Habs solve the LD-RD imbalance they are currently faced with. Emelin as a LD on a proper LD-RD pairing may help fix things. As much as some may want to claim he can play RD, his chasing the puck and being out of position in his own zone disputes this statement….

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03-24-2014, 05:26 AM
  #14
Mats86
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Kinda funny that people are suggesting Gorges be the one to be traded when he's been orders of magnitude more effective than Emelin this year and he's cheaper.


hf gonna hf
Gorges is very disliked on this board. I imagine there is a reason. I've noticed before, when lots of fans don't like a player they generally are right

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03-24-2014, 07:08 AM
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HabsSlappy
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Gorges is very disliked on this board. I imagine there is a reason. I've noticed before, when lots of fans don't like a player they generally are right
I don't dislike Gorges, but he is basically a shot blocker/PK specialist who is bad in his own end when he has the puck under pressure and zero offensive instincts. The real reason for the hate is that he is played and paid as a #3/4 when he should be played and paid like a #5/6.

I would take Gorges on my team indefinitely if he were paid $2M - $2.5M and played on the last pairing and PK...but he isn't, so he should be dealt for anything simply for cap flexibility. As you can see...Weaver does pretty much the same job as him for a fraction of the cost.

Back to the OP...That is an expensive D for what they bring to the table IMO. I think that we need to start getting a better mix of right and left handed shots on the back end. Luckily we have lots of right handed defenseman prospects, but none, other than Pateryn are close to making the NHL. Markov, Emelin, Gorges, Tinordi, Beaulieu are all LH shots. In the near future we need Tinordi and Beaulieu to step into the lineup for cap relief and for their maturation as players. That makes Emelin and/or Gorges expendable and a couple of right handed defensemen through FA or trade a need.

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03-24-2014, 07:17 AM
  #16
ClasslessGuy
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Gorges salary is fair, Emelin isn't. Gorges might just be a PK, shot blocking defensive D, but guess what? We don't have any player like that besides him.

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Old
03-24-2014, 08:04 AM
  #17
hockeyfan2k11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Kinda funny that people are suggesting Gorges be the one to be traded when he's been orders of magnitude more effective than Emelin this year and he's cheaper.


hf gonna hf
Neither are good.

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Old
03-24-2014, 08:07 AM
  #18
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
I don't dislike Gorges, but he is basically a shot blocker/PK specialist who is bad in his own end when he has the puck under pressure and zero offensive instincts. The real reason for the hate is that he is played and paid as a #3/4 when he should be played and paid like a #5/6.

I would take Gorges on my team indefinitely if he were paid $2M - $2.5M and played on the last pairing and PK...but he isn't, so he should be dealt for anything simply for cap flexibility. As you can see...Weaver does pretty much the same job as him for a fraction of the cost.

Back to the OP...That is an expensive D for what they bring to the table IMO. I think that we need to start getting a better mix of right and left handed shots on the back end. Luckily we have lots of right handed defenseman prospects, but none, other than Pateryn are close to making the NHL. Markov, Emelin, Gorges, Tinordi, Beaulieu are all LH shots. In the near future we need Tinordi and Beaulieu to step into the lineup for cap relief and for their maturation as players. That makes Emelin and/or Gorges expendable and a couple of right handed defensemen through FA or trade a need.
Agree with every word. Made a thread early in the season saying the D is way too expensive for what they provide.

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Old
03-24-2014, 08:15 AM
  #19
Blind Gardien
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$22M is a bit pricey, but that's part of the market, we generally have to be a bit pricey. I don't think we can complain about Markov-Subban at $13-14M, anyway. That's an elite 1-2 punch. (For now, anyway, until whenever Markov's age catches up). Then Gorges is solid enough at his $3.9M. About the only place I don't think we're getting fair bang for the buck is Emelin. Management obviously expected more from him. But I have to assume he would be back in Russia next season if we were only paying him $2.5-3M, there isn't really much of an excuse for that contract otherwise.

So end of the day, maybe we're paying a $2Mish premium in total? That's peanuts on a $70M cap, and if the team can't work around that, then we've got bigger problems.

Well, we do have bigger problems. But we also have the potential to fill our #5-6-7 roster spots with guys making $1M or less. Other teams have $2-4M veterans or stay-at-homers in their bottom rotation. We can probably recoup the $2Mish premium by just rolling out Tinordi, Beaulieu, and Drewiske/Pateryn next season, if we went that direction.

Utilization and development are really my only issues with the D. The current group at the current price is adequate, but I think can be deployed to better effect next season.

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Old
03-25-2014, 07:48 AM
  #20
Mats86
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After watching last night's game, can understand why many fans want to keep Elemin and trade Gorges

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