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Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers?

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01-07-2014, 02:08 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Neither he (Callahan) nor Girardi. Neither is a $5m guy.
In today's NHL they are worth more than that. here's some recent UFA or UFA to-be contracts:

Clarkson $5.25M for 7 years;
Weiss $4.9M for 5 years;
Brent Burns $5.76 for 5 years;
Clowe $4.85 for 5 years;
Bouwmeester $5.4M for 5 years; and
Streit (35 yr old) $5.25M for 4 years

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01-07-2014, 02:09 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
And now there are many people who would prefer to have just signed Prust and kept a good thing going. Yea maybe it's an "overpayment." But how is Sather going to fill in the hole? What is the plan? With Prust they are still trying to figure it out. Asham signing. Clowe trade. Adding Dorsett. Carcillo trade. Harder than he thought.

When Sather instead gives $6Mx5 to Dan Boyle on July 1st, will the trade off be worth it? Maybe if Girardi returns good value. Which I think he obviously can. But this is the type of real world grounding that can get lost in the shuffle. They will have a hole on defense. They will have Sather attempting to fill it. They will attempt to fill it, as much as we all may feel it would be better to just take some lumps. I am uncomfortable with that.
And that's a valid point when you're talking about a 2.5M hit. Does it hold water when the number is closer to 6m? I love Girardi, but we can't pay him anything near that.

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01-07-2014, 02:16 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief View Post
In today's NHL they are worth more than that. here's some recent UFA or UFA to-be contracts:

Clarkson $5.25M for 7 years;
Weiss $4.9M for 5 years;
Brent Burns $5.76 for 5 years;
Clowe $4.85 for 5 years;
Bouwmeester $5.4M for 5 years; and
Streit (35 yr old) $5.25M for 4 years
Other than Bouwmeester and maybe Burns, which of those players would you want on the Rangers at those prices?

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01-07-2014, 02:19 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Other than Bouwmeester and maybe Burns, which of those players would you want on the Rangers at those prices?
None.

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01-07-2014, 02:20 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
And that's a valid point when you're talking about a 2.5M hit. Does it hold water when the number is closer to 6m? I love Girardi, but we can't pay him anything near that.
That is my thought. Plus, once Jackass tore down the core, the law of diminishing returns set on the rest. Had the locker room stayed in tact, then one could make the case to keep it together as it was better than the sum of its parts.

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01-07-2014, 02:20 PM
  #306
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I know he's an impending UFA but jesus christ, the trade boards act like G is worth nothing at all? Sbisa + 2nd? Get the **** out of here.

I wonder what Girardi can actually obtain.

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01-07-2014, 02:23 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
I know he's an impending UFA but jesus christ, the trade boards act like G is worth nothing at all? Sbisa + 2nd? Get the **** out of here.

I wonder what Girardi can actually obtain.
A lot.

Fraser + Khoklachev + BOS 1st

Vatanen + Kerdiles + ANA 2nd

Connolly + Kucherov + TB 1st

That type of deal

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01-07-2014, 02:24 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
And now there are many people who would prefer to have just signed Prust and kept a good thing going. Yea maybe it's an "overpayment." But how is Sather going to fill in the hole? What is the plan? With Prust they are still trying to figure it out. Asham signing. Clowe trade. Adding Dorsett. Carcillo trade. Harder than he thought.

When Sather instead gives $6Mx5 to Dan Boyle on July 1st, will the trade off be worth it? Maybe if Girardi returns good value. Which I think he obviously can. But this is the type of real world grounding that can get lost in the shuffle. They will have a hole on defense. They will have Sather attempting to fill it. They will attempt to fill it, as much as we all may feel it would be better to just take some lumps. I am uncomfortable with that.
This is a point I was going to make with Prust being the prefect example. Nobody wanted to pay Prust because the Rangers would replace him with cheaper options...and, unfortunately, we got what we paid for in Asham, Halpern, Pyatt, etc...

You may be able to slot Zuc on the 2nd line RW...but where do you make up Callahan's lost goals? This team has needed more goal scorers for years and now we're going to get rid of our 2nd best scorer. And let's talk about grit. Callahan's one of the few forwards who plays a gritty, physical style. The last 2 seasons Callahan led the team in hits. Last season he had 154 and only one other forward topped 100. So now this team that hasn't been able to find goal scorers and has been too soft is going to get rid of it's second best goal-scorer and best hitter...and replacing that production isn't any cause for concern.

BTW - Over the last 3 seasons, the difference in goals scored between Callahan and Nash hasn't been as great as you might think. Nash has scored 30, 21 and 9 (counting yesterday's game). While Callahan has scored 29, 16 and 7.

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01-07-2014, 02:26 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
And that's a valid point when you're talking about a 2.5M hit. Does it hold water when the number is closer to 6m? I love Girardi, but we can't pay him anything near that.
So then my question is; is Sather really not going to sign a defenseman this summer? Is he going to be ok with Allen/McIlrath/prospect from trade being penciled into the opening night lineup? Being ok with not "competing to win a Cup" next season? Regardless of what WE think. I personally am not even opposed to that. But that doesn't mean ****. What matters is what Sather will do.

If I had any faith in the org to actually take its lumps, retool correctly, it would be a lot easier of a pill to swallow. I see a terrible UFA dman contract signed this summer. I cannot realistically project mangement showing restraint. And I'm not sure the Rangers just wouldn't be better off keeping Girardi, even if "overpaid" by $500k-$1M, than going down the unknown mercenary road for the millionth time.

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01-07-2014, 02:29 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief View Post
This is a point I was going to make with Prust being the prefect example. Nobody wanted to pay Prust because the Rangers would replace him with cheaper options...and, unfortunately, we got what we paid for in Asham, Halpern, Pyatt, etc...

You may be able to slot Zuc on the 2nd line RW...but where do you make up Callahan's lost goals? This team has needed more goal scorers for years and now we're going to get rid of our 2nd best scorer. And let's talk about grit. Callahan's one of the few forwards who plays a gritty, physical style. The last 2 seasons Callahan led the team in hits. Last season he had 154 and only one other forward topped 100. So now this team that hasn't been able to find goal scorers and has been too soft is going to get rid of it's second best goal-scorer and best hitter...and replacing that production isn't any cause for concern.

BTW - Over the last 3 seasons, the difference in goals scored between Callahan and Nash hasn't been as great as you might think. Nash has scored 30, 21 and 9 (counting yesterday's game). While Callahan has scored 29, 16 and 7.
No one is saying Callahan is a bad player, just that he is going to break down as he gets older. They have holes, but whether they hold onto him or not, they are not going to compete for The Cup. Get some assets, let another team overpay, develop the young players they bring in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
So then my question is; is Sather really not going to sign a defenseman this summer? Is he going to be ok with Allen/McIlrath/prospect from trade being penciled into the opening night lineup? Being ok with not "competing to win a Cup" next season? Regardless of what WE think. I am not oppose to that. But that doesn't mean ****. What matters is what Sather will do.

If I had any faith in the org to actually take its lumps, retool correctly, it would be a lot easier of a pill to swallow. I see a terrible UFA dman contract signed this summer. I cannot realistically project mangement showing restraint. And I'm not sure the Rangers just wouldn't be better off keeping Girardi, even if "overpaid" by $500k-$1M than going down the unknown mercenary road for the millionth time.
I see some d-men who may be available who can help fill some holes. Teams will also have players available. Sometimes the buy low candidates are the way to go in order to get by for half a season while a young player gets their feet wet (Allen/McIlrath).

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01-07-2014, 02:37 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
A lot.

Fraser + Khoklachev + BOS 1st

Vatanen + Kerdiles + ANA 2nd

Connolly + Kucherov + TB 1st

That type of deal
Nah apparently since he's a UFA other teams' garbage is all they can offer .

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01-07-2014, 02:38 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Other than Bouwmeester and maybe Burns, which of those players would you want on the Rangers at those prices?
That's the point: Wouldn't you rather have Callahan at a similar contract, rather than the majority of those players? Because you'll be looking at players like that come next summer: Dany Heatley at $6M/5 years; Tommy Vanek at $7.5M for 7 years; Hemsky at $6M for 5 seasons...and those numbers might be too conservative...players usually get more than people think.

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01-07-2014, 02:38 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Nah apparently since he's a UFA other teams' garbage is all they can offer .
Rangers fans do the same thing, no ones fans like to give up future assets for a rental and yet teams do it all the time. This is a futures board, so it will be skewed on here.

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01-07-2014, 02:43 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
No one is saying Callahan is a bad player, just that he is going to break down as he gets older. They have holes, but whether they hold onto him or not, they are not going to compete for The Cup. Get some assets, let another team overpay, develop the young players they bring in.
This team is a lot closer to a Cup in the next 5 years with Callahan than without.

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01-07-2014, 02:43 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
I know he's an impending UFA but jesus christ, the trade boards act like G is worth nothing at all? Sbisa + 2nd? Get the **** out of here.

I wonder what Girardi can actually obtain.
It's always very hard to convince fans of one of the best teams in the league that they could use a guy like Girardi. They always throw the "We're fine without him" card out there.

Plus, Anaheim is a team that rarely ever does anything of significance at the deadline.

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01-07-2014, 02:45 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post
This team is a lot closer to a Cup in the next 5 years with Callahan than without.
Fact. But being 1/2 way there with Callahan does nothing but keep them mediocre. Losing Callahan means they most likely bottom out, don't overpay him via the length of the contract or the amount/season and return some very solid assets at the deadline.

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01-07-2014, 02:45 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post
This team is a lot closer to a Cup in the next 5 years with Callahan than without.
The team isn't close to a Cup run with or without Callahan.

It's not about Callahan, it's about the state of this franchise.

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01-07-2014, 02:46 PM
  #318
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If Thornton's available over the summer, can Sather resist signing him?

...and is that a bad thing?

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01-07-2014, 02:47 PM
  #319
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The other point I feel needs to be made about Prust, not to hijack the thread, is he got paid way more than he should to go to Montreal, where his girl is from. I bring this up because there is no logical reason to assume that even if the money is equal, or really, even if we offer more, that any of these guys will choose here just because they've been here. You could get any one of these guys who will actually take less to go somewhere that means something to them more than money. The offers should be on the table before the olympic break. If they arent signed by the time the games are over, then see ya.

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01-07-2014, 02:48 PM
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief View Post
If Thornton's available over the summer, can Sather resist signing him?

...and is that a bad thing?
It certainly would be a predictable one.

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01-07-2014, 02:57 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post
If Thornton's available over the summer, can Sather resist signing him?

...and is that a bad thing?
I can't see Thornton wanting to leave San Jose, which is a better team in a much nicer climate, to come here unless the money is just stupid. If I was sitting in California and took one look at the weather channel, signing in NY would be the furthest thought from my mind.

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01-07-2014, 02:59 PM
  #322
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Girardi has turned his game around the last two weeks. Maybe he had a lingering injury. Anyway, if he's dealt it better be for significant value cause he's unique in the trade/free agent market right now.

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01-07-2014, 03:05 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Chief View Post
That's the point: Wouldn't you rather have Callahan at a similar contract, rather than the majority of those players? Because you'll be looking at players like that come next summer: Dany Heatley at $6M/5 years; Tommy Vanek at $7.5M for 7 years; Hemsky at $6M for 5 seasons...and those numbers might be too conservative...players usually get more than people think.
Vanek will get paid, but neither Hemsky nor Heatley will get anything close to that kind of money/term.

I love Cally and at a reasonable contract, I'd take him back. But he's going to want 7 or 8 years. He's going to want 6 mil per year. He's missed time this year with 3 separate injuries.

5 mil per for 4 years? Fine. Anything more than that is too much of a risk and we'd be better off trading him for cheaper, younger assets. This team isn't in position to win a cup. If and when we are, how much will Cally be able to contribute? I don't know that he'll break down to the extent that Drury did, but I'm not interesting in taking that chance on a big money, long term deal.

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01-07-2014, 03:07 PM
  #324
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Ya let's give Thornton a retirement contract to come play here.

That will certainly help us now and in the future.

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01-07-2014, 03:07 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Vidic15 View Post
I'm surprised we haven't heard anything on Boyle. He's a UFA and Sather said he generated more interest from other teams at the deadline than Gaborik last year.
Yes, eight teams offered a bag of pucks. Boyle will not bring any kind of return; you're better off just letting him walk at the end of the year.

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