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Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers?

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01-08-2014, 07:12 PM
  #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
Fair enough, but the hit stat is pretty flawed and subjective overall.
Building-to-building there are some comparison issues, but comparing players on the same team should get you pretty close.

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01-08-2014, 07:29 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont know what argument you're trying to make here. On one hand, you're saying that Ranger fans love making a deal for the sake of making a deal, but on the other hand you are completely ignoring the context of the Girardi situation.

Most of us would like to use that scouting staff that you lauded to take an aging asset that is going to get wildly overpaid this offseason, and turn it into multiple assets that can help the organization moving forward.

I dont even think Girardi is as valuable as you do. I think hes lived a charmed life on the right side of Staal and McDonagh. But hes a damn good player, who is going to get paid like a great player on the market. I have no interest shelling out that money when his best days very well might be behind him.
Who? What assets? Who replaces Girardi? People seem to be having a tough time answering that one.

Opinion. If your going to say what you said is it also not fair to say that those players have benefited from playing with Girardi.

Speculation. You don't know this.

I'm saying be damn careful trading away a big minute, shut down defense man.

Paying him would be expensive, but and I will speculate a little myself, maybe not as expensive as a lot of people think.

How expensive is it to find the guy who eats the minutes and helps shut down guys like OV and Crosby?

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01-08-2014, 07:36 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Who? What assets? Who replaces Girardi? People seem to be having a tough time answering that one.

Opinion. If your going to say what you said is it also not fair to say that those players have benefited from playing with Girardi.

Speculation. You don't know this.

I'm saying be damn careful trading away a big minute, shut down defense man.

Paying him would be expensive, but and I will speculate a little myself, maybe not as expensive as a lot of people think.

How expensive is it to find the guy who eats the minutes and helps shut down guys like OV and Crosby?
If this team was anywhere near competing for a cup, I'd tend to agree with you.

But a lot of people realize that selling off our valuable free agents is the long-term play here.

If it makes you feel any better, I think you'll get your way and we'll get to enjoy an old, overpaid Girardi for several years.

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01-08-2014, 07:44 PM
  #454
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Giradi and Bourque for Patrick Maroon, Devante Smith Pelly, Stefan Noesen or Kerdiles

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01-08-2014, 08:00 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If this team was anywhere near competing for a cup, I'd tend to agree with you.

But a lot of people realize that selling off our valuable free agents is the long-term play here.

If it makes you feel any better, I think you'll get your way and we'll get to enjoy an old, overpaid Girardi for several years.
What makes me feel better is winning. I love winning.

I think there is some retooling that has to happen here, but actually I don't feel this team is that far away. From at least contending.

Most of the Rangers big name players are having an off year. If that were turned around....AND Kreider and Zuuc were emerging the way they are...this is a very, very different situation. I think these guys turn it around.

The only guy I have serious doubts about is Nash. He's never been at the heart of even a modestly successful team. It's still early, but I think we are beginning to see why. Plus the concussion issues.

I think Giradi's track record makes me think he will beat the curve on the many aged, over paid mercenaries who've played for this franchise. I'm thinking he is not that guy.

Shut down D will be key to any success. Long or short term.

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01-08-2014, 08:01 PM
  #456
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Del Zotto, Dom Moore and Thomas Spelling to LAK for Matt Greene and Derek Forbort.

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01-08-2014, 09:10 PM
  #457
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geez, trade rumor boards can be immensely mind-numbing. talking to Anaheim fans, one guy posted a bunch of recent trades for defensemen and what they got in return. They can't even accept that

Kaberle for 1st + Colborne + cond 2nd (one of their own cited examples of what is realistic based on history)
is comparable to
Girardi for 1st + Etem/Vataanen + cond 2nd

they are trying to tell me that Etem/Vataanen's 1/2 season totally makes the comparison incomparable. yeah, Colborne had no NHL experience. He was HFs 45th ranked top prospect. He was doing well in the AHL (52 pts that season). Etem hit 21st. Vataanen, no where. Anyways, I'm the big fool for having tried.
I also suppose it's convenient to ignore that the Bruins won the cup that season.

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01-08-2014, 10:46 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If this team was anywhere near competing for a cup, I'd tend to agree with you.

But a lot of people realize that selling off our valuable free agents is the long-term play here.

If it makes you feel any better, I think you'll get your way and we'll get to enjoy an old, overpaid Girardi for several years.
I also believe Girardi isn't going anywhere unless the team begins to fade.

With that said, if Girardi remains the odds favor Del Zotto being moved. If the top 4 D is in place, how much is the team willing to pay for a 3rd line "jittery" puck handler?

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01-08-2014, 10:49 PM
  #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Who? What assets? Who replaces Girardi? People seem to be having a tough time answering that one.

Opinion. If your going to say what you said is it also not fair to say that those players have benefited from playing with Girardi.

Speculation. You don't know this.

I'm saying be damn careful trading away a big minute, shut down defense man.

Paying him would be expensive, but and I will speculate a little myself, maybe not as expensive as a lot of people think.

How expensive is it to find the guy who eats the minutes and helps shut down guys like OV and Crosby?
I've answered with Jake Gardiner a bunch of times.

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01-08-2014, 11:07 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
I've answered with Jake Gardiner a bunch of times.
Gardiner shoots L, not R. Not an answer

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01-08-2014, 11:10 PM
  #461
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I refuse to even contemplate what prospects guys like Girardi or Cally can fetch until the Rangers go on a long losing streak because it's games like tonight and the other night (TOR) (and most road games!)why I keep on saying this is a solid East PO team, can play and beat most teams in the EAST and why SATHER will be a BUYER (small) at the deadline rather than trading/dumping players like CALLY and GIRARDI, both of whom played well tonight and can be positive factors in any PO series...I know it won't make them a Cup winner, but it will keep Sather and Dolan in business

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01-08-2014, 11:13 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Gardiner shoots L, not R. Not an answer
Yes, because if you play a left handed shot on RD, it's an automatic forfeit.

I don't know who would come in and replace Girardi, but does that mean the right move is to sign Girardi to a contract that he is unlikely to perform to?

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01-08-2014, 11:15 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Gardiner shoots L, not R. Not an answer
He can not only play RD, but played with McDonagh in college IIRC. He's young, decent, and has potential. RFA. In my mind it's the logical way to trade Girardi and still adequately fill his position.

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01-08-2014, 11:20 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Yes, because if you play a left handed shot on RD, it's an automatic forfeit.

I don't know who would come in and replace Girardi, but does that mean the right move is to sign Girardi to a contract that he is unlikely to perform to?
If you played, which I guess you don't, you'd know that defending a rush on your backhand is a lot more difficult than your forehand. A lot. Girardi isn't old, is an undervalued asset, and will be in super high demand if available. That should tell you something. If other teams are willing to deal multiple assets and/or draft picks, you might just have something worth keeping. 1st pairing RD playing 25+ minutes per game are pretty hard to find and even harder to replace. I sign him and don't think too much about the contract.

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01-08-2014, 11:21 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
He can not only play RD, but played with McDonagh in college IIRC. He's young, decent, and has potential. RFA. In my mind it's the logical way to trade Girardi and still adequately fill his position.
He's not comparable, IMHO. Not even close.

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01-08-2014, 11:26 PM
  #466
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That's fine, why would we want another Girardi when he's not suited for the style AV wants?

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01-08-2014, 11:31 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
If you played, which I guess you don't, you'd know that defending a rush on your backhand is a lot more difficult than your forehand. A lot. Girardi isn't old, is an undervalued asset, and will be in super high demand if available. That should tell you something. If other teams are willing to deal multiple assets and/or draft picks, you might just have something worth keeping. 1st pairing RD playing 25+ minutes per game are pretty hard to find and even harder to replace. I sign him and don't think too much about the contract.
Yeah, it's also a harder chip out of the zone. But 2/3 of the defensemen in the league are left-handed and 1/2 of the ice is one the right side so some make it work.

Tomas Kaberle was in super high demand. Does that mean it was a mistake for Toronto to trade him instead of re-signing him?

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01-08-2014, 11:48 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Yeah, it's also a harder chip out of the zone. But 2/3 of the defensemen in the league are left-handed and 1/2 of the ice is one the right side so some make it work.

Tomas Kaberle was in super high demand. Does that mean it was a mistake for Toronto to trade him instead of re-signing him?
Not at a 1st pair level.

And, Kaberle, please ... But I guess Derek Morris was in high demand too, so I get the point. I'd take G over each of those.

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01-08-2014, 11:53 PM
  #469
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Well trading Girardi leaves a hole next to McDonagh, unless you move Stralman up which creates a new hole, and people are gonna be hanging themselves when they hear what Girardi resigns here for, so that to me is the logical solution. That doesn't mean it necessarily makes us better right now, or even ever, but I have yet to see any other logical solutions. Maybe Girardi for __ + a lesser defensemen? Idk...

I love Danny G, but sometimes the tough moves are the right ones. Who knows, maybe we get a conditional 1st/2nd from Toronto.

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01-09-2014, 12:07 AM
  #470
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I've answered with Jake Gardiner a bunch of times.
Thank you. He's a nice player. Is this a one for one?

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01-09-2014, 12:12 AM
  #471
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Thank you. He's a nice player. Is this a one for one?
Let's say TO adds a draft pick, a nice one if he resigns. I just don't want to overpay for him (G).

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01-09-2014, 12:39 AM
  #473
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I honestly think there is a huge value gap between Gardiner and Girardi. Gardiner is pretty unproven - he is almost the exact age as MDZ with half the career points and GP. Heck, didn't Gardiner spend almost all of last season in the minors? This is, imho, a big risk on a fairly unproven player which creates a massive hole in the top 4. Keep in mind Girardi logs a ton of tough minutes and has only missed 4 games over the past 7 seasons.
All valid points. We all know Sather is just going to resign him anyway though.

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01-09-2014, 01:09 AM
  #475
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It's tough to say - Sather makes most of his decisions with a magic 8 ball.
We could only wish he was using a magic 8 ball

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