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Hutton in Trotz's Doghouse

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Old
01-05-2014, 11:32 PM
  #1
XxPRODxX
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Hutton in Trotz's Doghouse

@JoshuaCooper

Trotz on the Skinner game-winner: "You have to save those. That wasn’t much of a shot at all."


@JoshuaCooper

Trotz on Hutton's performance: "That’s not good enough for this league. He wasn’t strong at all."


http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2014/1...edators-goalie

Do we get another taste of Hellberg or get to see Darling for the first time

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01-05-2014, 11:40 PM
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Will be interesting to see what follows after these (unusually harsh) statements. I'm pretty confident that as long as Maz is not hurt he'll start the next game.

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01-05-2014, 11:42 PM
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Darling is on an AHL only contract and not Preds property right now. I'd have to check the CBA to see if signing an NHL deal would expose him to waivers as it did when Fortunus signed with Dallas last month.

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01-06-2014, 07:38 AM
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Trotz needs to put himself in the dog house.

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01-06-2014, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Darling is on an AHL only contract and not Preds property right now. I'd have to check the CBA to see if signing an NHL deal would expose him to waivers as it did when Fortunus signed with Dallas last month.
Darling has mostly been an ECHL goaltender to this point, and while he's played well in Milwaukee--Hutton was one of the top goaltenders in the AHL.

This was an experiment to find a hidden gem on the cheap, and it backfired. Hopefully a lesson was learned.

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01-06-2014, 07:50 AM
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Can we sign Saros and just bring him in for the rest of the season?...

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01-06-2014, 09:13 AM
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Hutton is done. It goes on Poile for not getting a veteran backup instead of Hutton when Rinne was coming off surgery. Spent the money on the 4th line instead and it has backfired.

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01-06-2014, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Darling has mostly been an ECHL goaltender to this point, and while he's played well in Milwaukee--Hutton was one of the top goaltenders in the AHL.

This was an experiment to find a hidden gem on the cheap, and it backfired. Hopefully a lesson was learned.
The point about Darling was in response to the OP's final sentence asking if we see Darling for the first time. The Hutton experiment wasn't the first time the team brought in a goalie as a backup on the cheap and hoped for the best. That started back with some guy with one game of NHL experience with the Habs taken in the expansion draft ... Vokoun. It happened again with Mason and Ellis. Looking at who was really available this summer, any affordable backup was unproven and risky then there was Bryz ... risky and expensive.

Hutton gives up too many soft goals yet in four of his last eight starts he's held the opposition to two or fewer allowed ... winning three of them. Few teams can lose a Vezina finalist caliber goaltender without significant woes. Right now we have two backup goalies hovering around .500 win%, over .900sv% ... tolerable if they were serving as backups but unfortunately they are the starting duo of inconsistent goaltending until things get sorted out between the pipes.

Maz had a pretty good November but has struggled since. Allowing 3+ in seven of his last eight starts is not a good sign. Two wins since the start of December. His numbers are in a decline of late after that good first month.

Five combined wins between our goalies since Thanksgiving. 12 games allowing three or more goals against since Thanksgiving. Hutton shouldn't be the only one in the doghouse ... most of the roster belongs in it.

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01-06-2014, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
The point about Darling was in response to the OP's final sentence asking if we see Darling for the first time. The Hutton experiment wasn't the first time the team brought in a goalie as a backup on the cheap and hoped for the best. That started back with some guy with one game of NHL experience with the Habs taken in the expansion draft ... Vokoun. It happened again with Mason and Ellis. Looking at who was really available this summer, any affordable backup was unproven and risky then there was Bryz ... risky and expensive.

Hutton gives up too many soft goals yet in four of his last eight starts he's held the opposition to two or fewer allowed ... winning three of them. Few teams can lose a Vezina finalist caliber goaltender without significant woes. Right now we have two backup goalies hovering around .500 win%, over .900sv% ... tolerable if they were serving as backups but unfortunately they are the starting duo of inconsistent goaltending until things get sorted out between the pipes.

Maz had a pretty good November but has struggled since. Allowing 3+ in seven of his last eight starts is not a good sign. Two wins since the start of December. His numbers are in a decline of late after that good first month.

Five combined wins between our goalies since Thanksgiving. 12 games allowing three or more goals against since Thanksgiving. Hutton shouldn't be the only one in the doghouse ... most of the roster belongs in it.
There was actually a pretty decent backup goaltender market this summer...Greiss, Bachman(my choice, and played well in Edmonton until his injury), Khudobin, Dan Ellis(another one I hoped we'd look at), and then of course Theodore and Bryzgalov.

Mason had been in the Predators minor league system and the organization had a pretty good handle on what he could do. They took him back in the waiver draft days from Florida because it was clear that Jan Lasak wasn't an NHL goaltender. Dan Ellis was signed to be the starter in Milwaukee and give Rinne a balanced load down there...he just happened to come in and play out of his mind right out of the gate.

I agree that there's a lot of blame to go around, and I don't hold Hutton accountable--he's not the one that forced himself into a role he's clearly not suited for.

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01-06-2014, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INDhockeyfan View Post
Hutton is done. It goes on Poile for not getting a veteran backup instead of Hutton when Rinne was coming off surgery. Spent the money on the 4th line instead and it has backfired.
I have a hard time with the "it's all on Poile" logic when looking at how poorly this team is coached and constructed.

After like 15 years together, I just can't believe that Trotz has zero input on the free agents the team pursues or the way the team is built. I have to think that when the subject of the backup goalie came up, Trotz was in agreement that Hutton was worth a shot.

I beleve that we got the bucketful of low-talent grinders and an ECHL goalie because Poile and Trotz and the scouting staff believed that was the way to go.

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01-06-2014, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
There was actually a pretty decent backup goaltender market this summer...Greiss, Bachman(my choice, and played well in Edmonton until his injury), Khudobin, Dan Ellis(another one I hoped we'd look at), and then of course Theodore and Bryzgalov.

Mason had been in the Predators minor league system and the organization had a pretty good handle on what he could do. They took him back in the waiver draft days from Florida because it was clear that Jan Lasak wasn't an NHL goaltender. Dan Ellis was signed to be the starter in Milwaukee and give Rinne a balanced load down there...he just happened to come in and play out of his mind right out of the gate.

I agree that there's a lot of blame to go around, and I don't hold Hutton accountable--he's not the one that forced himself into a role he's clearly not suited for.
We traded Dominic Roussel just before the start of the 98-99 season for Mason who got three games that first season with pretty bad numbers. Ellis, as you noted, brought in to play in the AHL as a cheap #3 goalie and got not only the backup job, but the starting job. I watched Bachman in Cedar Park and Dallas ... shorter version of Hutton with the inconsistent NHL numbers to match with his .885sv% last season with D. Ellis let his mouth close several doors around the league and his play since leaving Nashville has been up and down in his limited games ... no winning record since 10-11, sv% comparable to Maz and Hutton.

Risk, risk, and more risk ... pick your poison.

Hutton was brought in to start around 15 games so Pekka could get a rest. If that was the role he played all season, his .500 win% and .902sv% would be tolerable. As a starter, it isn't. The same applies to Maz as a starter ... ok numbers for a backup but not the guy getting the majority of the starts.

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01-06-2014, 10:17 AM
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Last night's game was a defensive gem yet half of the breakdowns resulted in goals. We've had a few games like that this year.

You want to know why Weber plays more conservative, look at that last goal. Weber took a chance and punished the puck carrier and it resulted in a weak ass goal.

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01-06-2014, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Last night's game was a defensive gem yet half of the breakdowns resulted in goals. We've had a few games like that this year.

You want to know why Weber plays more conservative, look at that last goal. Weber took a chance and punished the puck carrier and it resulted in a weak ass goal.
No, it's because he lost his passion and wants to be a Flyer...

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01-06-2014, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Darling has mostly been an ECHL goaltender to this point, and while he's played well in Milwaukee--Hutton was one of the top goaltenders in the AHL.

This was an experiment to find a hidden gem on the cheap, and it backfired. Hopefully a lesson was learned.
Oh bullcrap. It wasn't an "experiment". When you have a 7 million dollar goalie that you expect to play 70+ games, it would be foolish to sign a true 1A backup. So your options are either sign a former starter who has fallen past his prime or an up and comer that hasn't quite proved they are NHL ready yet.

In the past, poile has done the former(Mason last year) and the latter (Dan Ellis). Based on past history, taking the unproven up and comer has more potential upside than the over the hill guy.

The fact is, we all knew if rinne went down we were screwed, no matter who was the backup

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01-06-2014, 11:55 AM
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Oh bullcrap. It wasn't an "experiment". When you have a 7 million dollar goalie that you expect to play 70+ games, it would be foolish to sign a true 1A backup. So your options are either sign a former starter who has fallen past his prime or an up and comer that hasn't quite proved they are NHL ready yet.
Expecting a goalie coming off a hip surgery to play 70+ games is risky and foolish.

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01-06-2014, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Last night's game was a defensive gem yet half of the breakdowns resulted in goals. We've had a few games like that this year.

You want to know why Weber plays more conservative, look at that last goal. Weber took a chance and punished the puck carrier and it resulted in a weak ass goal.
It's nice to see someone else understands what really happens.

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01-06-2014, 12:13 PM
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Those comments just sound like Trotz calling him out to me. Deservedly so. Hopefully Hutton will respond.

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01-06-2014, 12:52 PM
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It's nice to see someone else understands what really happens.
I get tired of reading the comments on our defensemen this year. No defenseman is perfect yet we expect Weber to be. Not only does he have to be the most physical person on the ice but he has to be team protector, lead the offense, kill penalties, block shots, cover for his partner, eliminate all scoring chances and on top of it all play 30 minutes each night with the weight of the team on his shoulders. I mean he does have a C on his chest, and he does make a lot of money afterall. And besides, when he does go full Shea he's dominate, so asking him to do that every night is understandable, right? I mean if he doesn't it shows he's not a leader and really wanted to be somewhere else.
There's even a comment on here about Weber being a minus 2 last night as if he was the cause of both goals.

I'm interested on your take though, as a guy that's played goalie.

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01-06-2014, 01:44 PM
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I get tired of reading the comments on our defensemen this year. No defenseman is perfect yet we expect Weber to be. Not only does he have to be the most physical person on the ice but he has to be team protector, lead the offense, kill penalties, block shots, cover for his partner, eliminate all scoring chances and on top of it all play 30 minutes each night with the weight of the team on his shoulders. I mean he does have a C on his chest, and he does make a lot of money afterall. And besides, when he does go full Shea he's dominate, so asking him to do that every night is understandable, right? I mean if he doesn't it shows he's not a leader and really wanted to be somewhere else.
There's even a comment on here about Weber being a minus 2 last night as if he was the cause of both goals.

I'm interested on your take though, as a guy that's played goalie.
If Weber showed half as much effort in his play day in, day out as you do defending it there would be no need for you sticking up for him here.

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01-06-2014, 02:00 PM
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If Weber showed half as much effort in his play day in, day out as you do defending it there would be no need for you sticking up for him here.
Really? What is he not doing out there? Top 20 in hits, top 10 in blocks, top 3 goals scored, top 5 PPP, top 5 minutes. All for a defenseman. Yeah. He doesn't care cause stats don't lie. Name me another player on defense who has those stats or better? His +/- is the only thing that sucks but the entire teams +/- sucks and since it takes 5 skaters and a goalie for a goal to be scored against, once again, looking at the individual stats, how is he not performing? Because as you like to say, you can't just by emotions or by looking at what a player does on the ice, let's just by stats. Well there you go. His stats are as good if not better than any other defenseman in the NHL.

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01-06-2014, 02:02 PM
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On the Forecheck is hinting that this might also have been a shot at Poile...Would this be the first ever kink in the Trotz/Poile partnership?

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01-06-2014, 02:15 PM
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Tim Thomas and Nick Backstrom had the same type of hip surgery as Pekka and both played fine after that. The E coli thing seems so random.

As much as I am down on Poile right now, it is more from all the people he signed this summer-- forwards.
And I do think he mismanaged signing another goalie when Pekka got diagnosed in Oct ?....
That is all on Poile

I do think Poile and Trotz disagree more than we think. I think I remember talking to someone about their disagreements in drafting small D..... that trotz wanted more size. (a couple of years ago)

I find it slightly ironic that Trotz is so frustrated and calling out Hutton (which is untrotzian) when during the last game after the first (?) period he mentioned that frustration was a useless waste of energy..........

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01-06-2014, 02:17 PM
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Really? What is he not doing out there? Top 20 in hits, top 10 in blocks, top 3 goals scored, top 5 PPP, top 5 minutes. All for a defenseman. Yeah. He doesn't care cause stats don't lie. Name me another player on defense who has those stats or better? His +/- is the only thing that sucks but the entire teams +/- sucks and since it takes 5 skaters and a goalie for a goal to be scored against, once again, looking at the individual stats, how is he not performing? Because as you like to say, you can't just by emotions or by looking at what a player does on the ice, let's just by stats. Well there you go. His stats are as good if not better than any other defenseman in the NHL.
Dominant when he wants to be, invisible for stretches ... as evidenced by not showing up on stat sheets for 54 minutes at a time before deciding to get involved.

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01-06-2014, 02:39 PM
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Dominant when he wants to be, invisible for stretches ... as evidenced by not showing up on stat sheets for 54 minutes at a time before deciding to get involved.
Hmm, I'm confused.

16:03 of the 1st Blocked shot
15:15 of the 1st Shot of goal
05:22 of the 1st Blocked shot
01:39 of the 1st Blocked shot

I could go on and recap the 2nd and 3rd period as well, but don't really see the point. Stats don't lie, turns out Weber did show up during the first 54 minutes of the game.

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01-06-2014, 02:39 PM
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lol, so because he didn't dominate every minute of the game, only parts of it, it means he didn't show up?

Unrealistic expectations like I mentioned above.

No player, playing Weber's minutes physically dominates every shift like some of you expect. Not many can even play Weber type minutes, much less a physical defenseman like Weber.

The only defenseman I can think of that comes close is Chara, and Chara is 19th in TOI/g. Averaging almost 2 minutes less per game than Weber. Not only does Weber play a ton of minutes but he plays a ton of even strength minutes, which means he skating both ends of the ice.

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