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Old
01-14-2014, 01:32 PM
  #951
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According to the latest from LeBrun, the Canucks are looking to add a 3C (he's said this before, but he's reiterating) or, failing that, a top-9 winger, or a better 4C if all else fails. Also, not a rental. Wants to make a hockey deal.

He notes that the Canucks seem reluctant to trade draft picks and prefer to deal from within the organization, citing their organizational strength on defense as the carrot being dangled.

Corrado? Hutton's probably raising some eyebrows. Tanev?

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01-14-2014, 01:33 PM
  #952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Before your hand gets too tired from patting yourself on the back about your offseason prognostications, remember that your solution to the Canucks' scoring woes was to sign Clarkson and Clowe up to long term deals. Guys whose combined offensive output this year is lower than Brad Richardson's.

Given the choice between writing off a season and willingly taking on a couple of albatrosses like that I know which one I'm choosing.
Pauser's alternate reality. By his rational, a good team should win the Stanley Cup every year. But most years there are at least 8 - 10 good teams.

I don't think any GM "writes off" a season. Even when rebuilding, they try to ice as competitive a team as possible, within certain constraints. For instance, when you know you are rebuilding, you don't go out and sign an expensive 34 year old star UFA. I wouldn't make sense to go "all in" when you don't have the supporting cast. You also have to work within your existing contract structures, salary cap limitations and available prospects.

The Canucks are not rebuilding, rather Gillis is trying to retool and inject some new talent on the fly. However this season, he was constrained by existing contract structures and an artificially (arbitrarily) lowered salary cap. However these contract structures and cap numbers were what allows the Canucks to be one of the best teams in the league over the last 5 or 6 years.

It didn't help that David Booth was injured and couldn't be bought out. I don't think 2013 was a great UFA year. Regardless of money, we probably wouldn't have been going after Jagr or Iginla - even Ribeiro went for $5.5M. Maybe we could have made a play for Alfredsson, but all indications are that it was Ottawa or Detroit for him. Stephen Weiss hasn't worked out so well in Detroit. Mike Fisher, Corey Perry, Ryan Getzlaff, Andy McDonald and Teemo Selanne were certain to resign with existing clubs. We could have resigned Derek Roy, but he hadn't worked so well (turns out he was injured). Within the cap structure that we had to work with, there simply weren't a lot of options to bring in an impact player.

Gillis was savaged on these boards for acquiring "rubbish" like Richardson, Santorelli, Weber and Stanton - all described as AHL fodder. The trade for Dalpe and Welsh was viewed as similar. As it turns out, these were brilliant acquisitions with all of these players making key contributions.

The plan for this season was NOT a write off. Rather it was a new coach - new approach, inject some youth and allow some younger players to compete for roster spots. None of the 2013, 2012 or 2011 draft class were ready to claim a roster spot. But Tanev, Lack, Stanton, Dalpe and to a lesser extent Corrado, Welsh and Archibald have payed key roles. Success for the season however is not riding solely on young payers - the Sedins, Kesler, Edler and Luongo would have to be better. Luongo has been great, but Edler, the Sedins and Kesler have had so-so years so far.

Pauser is right about one thing, the team lack scoring - finish. Daniel, Burrows and Kesler have been responsible for almost all of the team's scoring. Burrows has been cold going back to last season and Daniel and Kesler are struggling. But I don't think there were any players available in the summer, with the cap space and contract structures available, who would have significantly helped us without a total rebuild of the team. If Gillis had blown up the team we would NOT be in a playoff position right now.

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Old
01-14-2014, 01:48 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Kickassguy View Post
According to the latest from LeBrun, the Canucks are looking to add a 3C (he's said this before, but he's reiterating) or, failing that, a top-9 winger, or a better 4C if all else fails. Also, not a rental. Wants to make a hockey deal.

He notes that the Canucks seem reluctant to trade draft picks and prefer to deal from within the organization, citing their organizational strength on defense as the carrot being dangled.

Corrado? Hutton's probably raising some eyebrows. Tanev?
With the way Tanev's been playing lately, you got to think he is part of the core moving forward. Easily our most reliable after Hamhuis. In fact, he has a lot of Hamhuis-like qualities.

If Tanev is being dealt, expect a top 6 forward

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01-14-2014, 01:51 PM
  #954
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In terms of depth, we're probably talking more like Tommernes, McNally or McEneny, similar how they flipped Connauton to Dallas. Hell, maybe they can get somebody to bite on Sauve.

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01-14-2014, 01:54 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
In terms of depth, we're probably talking more like Tommernes, McNally or McEneny, similar how they flipped Connauton to Dallas. Hell, maybe they can get somebody to bite on Sauve.
Just gotta send them to this thread:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=277600


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Old
01-14-2014, 01:55 PM
  #956
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I know they are stacked at defense but would fans entertain a Corrado for Kadri swap?

I'd suggest possibly Tanev but I think, barring unforeseen circumstances, he's entrenched in the Top 4/6.

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Old
01-14-2014, 01:57 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
In terms of depth, we're probably talking more like Tommernes, McNally or McEneny, similar how they flipped Connauton to Dallas. Hell, maybe they can get somebody to bite on Sauve.
With the way Nashville covets defenders I'm hoping we can ship off a small piece like you mentioned above and middling pick for a C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds81 View Post
I know they are stacked at defense but would fans entertain a Corrado for Kadri swap?

I'd suggest possibly Tanev but I think, barring unforeseen circumstances, he's entrenched in the Top 4/6.
I think with Gardiner and Reilly in Toronto and with their lack of Center ice depth they would probably be looking for a Center. That said, if they feel they can trade Gardiner for that top 6 Center and maybe fill some of Gardiner's role with Corrado, a deal might be there.

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01-14-2014, 01:57 PM
  #958
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Considering where the team was at roster, prospects, cap and coaching wise after the playoff loss to San Jose, and where they are now, its leaps and bounds better.

Elephant in the room now is the lack of cap space severely limiting GMMG's manoeuvering room.

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01-14-2014, 01:57 PM
  #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds81 View Post
I know they are stacked at defense but would fans entertain a Corrado for Kadri swap?

I'd suggest possibly Tanev but I think, barring unforeseen circumstances, he's entrenched in the Top 4/6.
Absolutely.

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Old
01-14-2014, 02:02 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
Considering where the team was at roster, prospects, cap and coaching wise after the playoff loss to San Jose, and where they are now, its leaps and bounds better.

Elephant in the room now is the lack of cap space severely limiting GMMG's manoeuvering room.
According to CapGeek, we have $5.4M in cap space available.

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01-14-2014, 02:06 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
According to CapGeek, we have $5.4M in cap space available.
That's with Burr on LTIR.

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01-14-2014, 02:06 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
According to CapGeek, we have $5.4M in cap space available.
Isn't that because Burr is on LTIR?

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01-14-2014, 02:08 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
Considering where the team was at roster, prospects, cap and coaching wise after the playoff loss to San Jose, and where they are now, its leaps and bounds better.

Elephant in the room now is the lack of cap space severely limiting GMMG's manoeuvering room.
... David Booth. Wildlife and him seem to be associated like peanut butter and jelly. Tell me I'm wrong.

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01-14-2014, 02:09 PM
  #964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
Considering where the team was at roster, prospects, cap and coaching wise after the playoff loss to San Jose, and where they are now, its leaps and bounds better.

Elephant in the room now is the lack of cap space severely limiting GMMG's manoeuvering room.
Moving forward, the Canucks seem to want their team to have a tough, gritty identity.

I don't think Corrado lands you Kadri without adding some pieces, but looking back at what Gillis has been trying to acquire, he is more interested in the sandpaper type players.

Last year:
Ryane Clowe

Previous year:
Steve Ott

2011:
Zack Kassian
Kyle Clifford

2010:
Andrew Ladd

2008:
David Backes

See the trend?
Gillis was willing to give up Hodgson for Clifford. Kadri is more of a Hodgson-type player,

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Old
01-14-2014, 02:11 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
Isn't that because Burr is on LTIR?
Don't think so. You don't accrue LTIR space - it only kicks in if you are over the cap (as a result of replacing a player on LTIR).

Edit - okay, I see how CapGeek calculates it. The "Today's Space" includes LTIR - so we can actually exceed the cap by almost $5M as a result of Burrows and Schroeder on LTIR. We only have $143K in real cap space. I thought Today's Space was true cap space.

They better wrap Booth in shrink wrap and scratch him from any games that are anticipated to be physical. We can't afford for him to be injured again this off-season.

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01-14-2014, 02:13 PM
  #966
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Originally Posted by Elliot20 View Post
Moving forward, the Canucks seem to want their team to have a tough, gritty identity.

I don't think Corrado lands you Kadri without adding some pieces, but looking back at what Gillis has been trying to acquire, he is more interested in the sandpaper type players.

Last year:
Ryane Clowe

Previous year:
Steve Ott

2011:
Zack Kassian
Kyle Clifford

2010:
Andrew Ladd

2008:
David Backes

See the trend?
Gillis was willing to give up Hodgson for Clifford. Kadri is more of a Hodgson-type player,
Which is fine but this team also needs some players with actual skill.

If we get Ott and no one else, I still foresee a 1st round exit.

I'm not saying Kadri is the be-all end-all it's just he adds something the Canucks lack.

That Boston series ****ed Gillis and Co. up in regards to how teams are now suppose to win.

Here's hoping he still thinks we need a mix of skill and grit and that this team still needs an acquisition of both to have any shot.

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Old
01-14-2014, 02:14 PM
  #967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot20 View Post
Gillis was willing to give up Hodgson for Clifford. Kadri is more of a Hodgson-type player,
I agree with your sentiment, I think Gillis and Tortorella want a fast, physical aggressive team.

But Kadri has far more sandpaper to his game than Hodgson.

Kadri was suspended earlier this year for throwing a hard, high hit. I think its safe to say Hodgson won't be receiving a suspension for dirty hits any time soon.

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Old
01-14-2014, 02:17 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by Betamax View Post
... David Booth. Wildlife and him seem to be associated like peanut butter and jelly. Tell me I'm wrong.

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Old
01-14-2014, 02:22 PM
  #969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot20 View Post
Moving forward, the Canucks seem to want their team to have a tough, gritty identity.

I don't think Corrado lands you Kadri without adding some pieces, but looking back at what Gillis has been trying to acquire, he is more interested in the sandpaper type players.

Last year:
Ryane Clowe

Previous year:
Steve Ott

2011:
Zack Kassian
Kyle Clifford

2010:
Andrew Ladd

2008:
David Backes

See the trend?
Gillis was willing to give up Hodgson for Clifford. Kadri is more of a Hodgson-type player,

By all indications, Gillis is a bit smarter than that. When the team lacked skilled players (and penalties were being called based on the post-2004 lockout standard of enforcement) he went after skilled players, regardless of sized - Hodgson, Schroeder, Rodin, Rai, Tambellini, etc. When it became clear that refs don't call obstruction penalties in the playoffs and it is possible to bully and bash your way to a Stanley Cup, he started to acquire bigger, tougher players such as Kassian, Jensen, Grenier, Gaunce, Booth, Higgins, Lapierre, Pahlsson, etc.

Last season, he recognized that we needed more skill. So he traded for Roy, and drafted Horvat and Shinkaruck. He also brought in Santorelli and Dalpe - smaller, skilled forwards and most recently signed Fox.

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01-14-2014, 02:22 PM
  #970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds81 View Post
I know they are stacked at defense but would fans entertain a Corrado for Kadri swap?

I'd suggest possibly Tanev but I think, barring unforeseen circumstances, he's entrenched in the Top 4/6.
Toronto fans are not particularly interested, nor can I blame them. Corrado may be an excellent piece, but he has limited NHL experience. While I think it could be a decent trade, provided we added accordingly. I wager Toronto would want Tanev.

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01-14-2014, 02:27 PM
  #971
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
By all indications, Gillis is a bit smarter than that. When the team lacked skilled players (and penalties were being called based on the post-2004 lockout standard of enforcement) he went after skilled players, regardless of sized - Hodgson, Schroeder, Rodin, Rai, Tambellini, etc. When it became clear that refs don't call obstruction penalties in the playoffs and it is possible to bully and bash your way to a Stanley Cup, he started to acquire bigger, tougher players such as Kassian, Jensen, Grenier, Gaunce, Booth, Higgins, Lapierre, Pahlsson, etc.

Last season, he recognized that we needed more skill. So he traded for Roy, and drafted Horvat and Shinkaruck. He also brought in Santorelli and Dalpe - smaller, skilled forwards and most recently signed Fox.
I don't think Gillis ever got "tricked", it was ALWAYS about having a balanced lineup. It's incredibly hard to build a balance team.

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01-14-2014, 02:27 PM
  #972
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Originally Posted by Elliot20 View Post
Moving forward, the Canucks seem to want their team to have a tough, gritty identity.

I don't think Corrado lands you Kadri without adding some pieces, but looking back at what Gillis has been trying to acquire, he is more interested in the sandpaper type players.

Last year:
Ryane Clowe

Previous year:
Steve Ott

2011:
Zack Kassian
Kyle Clifford

2010:
Andrew Ladd

2008:
David Backes

See the trend?
Gillis was willing to give up Hodgson for Clifford. Kadri is more of a Hodgson-type player,
I think its normal. I like how Kes, Burr, Bieksa, Hansen play so I want more of it. Same with contracts - I like those $4M deals so I trade for Booth and Ballard and don't acquire Campbell.

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Old
01-14-2014, 02:33 PM
  #973
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Which is fine but this team also needs some players with actual skill.

If we get Ott and no one else, I still foresee a 1st round exit.

I'm not saying Kadri is the be-all end-all it's just he adds something the Canucks lack.

That Boston series ****ed Gillis and Co. up in regards to how teams are now suppose to win.

Here's hoping he still thinks we need a mix of skill and grit and that this team still needs an acquisition of both to have any shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
By all indications, Gillis is a bit smarter than that. When the team lacked skilled players (and penalties were being called based on the post-2004 lockout standard of enforcement) he went after skilled players, regardless of sized - Hodgson, Schroeder, Rodin, Rai, Tambellini, etc. When it became clear that refs don't call obstruction penalties in the playoffs and it is possible to bully and bash your way to a Stanley Cup, he started to acquire bigger, tougher players such as Kassian, Jensen, Grenier, Gaunce, Booth, Higgins, Lapierre, Pahlsson, etc.

Last season, he recognized that we needed more skill. So he traded for Roy, and drafted Horvat and Shinkaruck. He also brought in Santorelli and Dalpe - smaller, skilled forwards and most recently signed Fox.
The thing with Santorelli and Dalpe is these guys were supposed to be depth players. Dalpe wouldn't have made this team if Schroeder was healthy. Santorelli was expected to be AHL fodder. Good on him for turning it around.

Whereas Gillis was willing to lose substantial assets in Hodgson for a guy like Clifford. Called Chicago for Ladd. And was a front-runner between New York for Ryane Clowe-even offering the 1st. Roy was an afterthought.

It's moves like this and the reports that reveal to me Gillis wants to build a Boston-Bruins type team.

And rightfully so, because deep down, all fans want to see a tough team on the ice.

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01-14-2014, 02:34 PM
  #974
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Roy was an afterthought.
Nope.

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Old
01-14-2014, 02:35 PM
  #975
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And Dane Fox is an interesting prospect, because he plays a Dave Bolland style game. It supports the theory of Gillis wanting that gritty team moreso than a finese team.

Surely balance of grit and skill are important. The Canucks currently lack both, buth maybe need to add some more sandpaper in the top 9 if they want to survive in this division.

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