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Old
05-01-2014, 07:54 AM
  #376
PALE PWNR
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The Schenn hate is real. He's going to be a good player. Be patient unless you want another JvR situation. He's had ONE full season, and he excelled in the role he was given. Give him top line PP time, give him real 2nd or 1st line minutes and people will see the potential he has.

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05-01-2014, 08:05 AM
  #377
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The hypocrisy of people panning the JVR trade and at the same time calling for Schenn's head is astounding. I can understand concern, but downright wanting him to be shipped out is awful.

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05-01-2014, 08:08 AM
  #378
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I agree with you guys. I think I'm gonna take a little break from this site, it makes my head hurt.

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05-01-2014, 08:33 AM
  #379
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The dude is 22. I hear the Leafs might have some dude that took a while to get going.

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05-01-2014, 08:34 AM
  #380
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Don't trade away youth like Braydon...get rid of the old slow guys

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05-01-2014, 08:50 AM
  #381
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Put him on the 1st line, it wouldn't hurt.
Schenn-G-Voracek
Hartnell-Vinny-Simmonds
Akeson/Raffl-Couts-Read
Rinaldo-Laughton-Hall/anyone

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05-01-2014, 08:56 AM
  #382
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Just play him at center for the entire season and be done with it. It's hard enough adjusting to the NHL in your early 20's, let alone playing for a coach that changed your position every other weak to appease his useless veteran.

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05-01-2014, 08:59 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by WelcomeToGirouxSalem View Post
Put him on the 1st line, it wouldn't hurt.
Schenn-G-Voracek
Hartnell-Vinny-Simmonds
Akeson/Raffl-Couts-Read
Rinaldo-Laughton-Hall/anyone
I'd rather schenn-g-voracek
Hartnell-Couts-simmer
Akeson/Raffl-Laughton-read
Rinaldo/anyone-vinny-hall/anyone

I wouldn't want Rinaldo ruining laughton

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05-01-2014, 09:02 AM
  #384
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I can go either way with B.Schenn. I do think he maxes out as a good 2nd center. His skill set is weird where he doesnt really do anything great. His shot is his best attribute but his positioning and 1on1 skills are not the best so its hard for him to get open.

What is concerning is that Couturier produced as good as Schenn did while facing extremely harder competition in a more defensive role. Schenns line faced the easiest competition out of the top 3 lines and Schenn produced just averagely.

I wouldnt be crying if Schenn was traded but I would hope that it would be a good return. Would not be happy if it wasnt.

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05-01-2014, 09:13 AM
  #385
blinds
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
The Schenn hate is real. He's going to be a good player. Be patient unless you want another JvR situation. He's had ONE full season, and he excelled in the role he was given. Give him top line PP time, give him real 2nd or 1st line minutes and people will see the potential he has.
This, we're asking for another JVR scenario if we sell low on him now. He's been getting effectively 3rd line minutes and 2nd unit PP time, and still put up 20 goals and had a career year. He's going to be good.

Give him either 1st line minutes or 1st PP time and I could see him challenging for 60 points next year. We need patience with our forwards, he's being asked to carry his own line at 22 years old.

People are way too hard on Schenn, there's a ton of positives to take from his game.

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What is concerning is that Couturier produced as good as Schenn did while facing extremely harder competition in a more defensive role. Schenns line faced the easiest competition out of the top 3 lines and Schenn produced just averagely.
Couturier also got a ton more minutes (19+ mins vs <16, granted a lot was PK time) and also had Read on his line who is a much more effective even strength player than anyone Schenn played with. Schenn produced better at even strength by ice time.


Last edited by blinds: 05-01-2014 at 09:19 AM.
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05-01-2014, 09:19 AM
  #386
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I'm SO ****ING sick of playing centers out of position. IT DOES NOT WORK. Trade one of the center and get an actual winger, who's actually played wing the majority of his career and can actually shoot the puck.

As for Schenn in particular, I'm also sick of hearing about how I should be patient. Understandably if that player has shown a distinct amount of nhl skill and has an obvious ability to get better, like JVR. I do not see that with Brayden. I do not see, whatsoever, the ability to take over a game. I do not see any dynamic ability at all. I don't see an IQ that's going to carry him.

Someone please tell me what I should be seeing, what about him makes you think that simple patients is going to turn a young disappointing 3rd line C into a dynamic game breaker? It's not like Schenn just has to work on being consistent like a lot of young stars, like JVR did. It's not like he has to become more assertive, like JVR did. I really honestly do not see a whole lot of room for improvement with him and people need to stop assuming that simple patients trumps talent and intelligence in the formula for developmental success.

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05-01-2014, 09:20 AM
  #387
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Is it just me or is it silly comparing Schenn and JVR? I mean, with JVR you saw flashes of a highly skilled power forward, but the consistency or physicality just wasn't there.

Schenn just seems all around mediocre to me. Can anybody really say there's one thing he truly excels at? You would think he has the skill set to be a decent power forward but he's struggling to find any kind of role whatsoever. I'm not holding my breath for him to blossom under Berube's wing.

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05-01-2014, 09:23 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I'm SO ****ING sick of playing centers out of position. IT DOES NOT WORK. Trade one of the center and get an actual winger, who's actually played wing the majority of his career and can actually shoot the puck.

As for Schenn in particular, I'm also sick of hearing about how I should be patient. Understandably if that player has shown a distinct amount of nhl skill and has an obvious ability to get better, like JVR. I do not see that with Brayden. I do not see, whatsoever, the ability to take over a game. I do not see any dynamic ability at all. I don't see an IQ that's going to carry him.

Someone please tell me what I should be seeing, what about him makes you think that simple patients is going to turn a young disappointing 3rd line C into a dynamic game breaker? It's not like Schenn just has to work on being consistent like a lot of young stars, like JVR did. It's not like he has to become more assertive, like JVR did. I really honestly do not see a whole lot of room for improvement with him and people need to stop assuming that simple patients trumps talent and intelligence in the formula for developmental success.
First, playing centers at wing can work very well. You just don't play them on their off wing. It's not a coincidence that Vinny and Schenn are bad at left wing, but are actually effective when playing from the right side. We just can't keep trying to force guys to play on their off wing and expect them to succeed right away. You have to learn how to play from your off side if you haven't done it before. They both have a much easier time on the right side.

With JVR, hindsight bias all the way. Looking back, of course you saw the potential for JVR because you see what he's doing now. Schenn has the same flashes JVR had. His playoffs weren't great, but the Rangers are a hard team to be effective against. He was great against PGH in 2012.

He's not making hard drives to the net like JVR, but that's not his game. Schenn makes some nice nifty moves that aren't quite connecting yet, he's good at stealing the puck, and he's good at finding open ice, he's got one of the best shots on the team. Don't discount being in the right place at the right time, that's a skill to find those places. That's what Stamkos is best at in fact. He's very physical and has the potential to be our best forechecker, he's one of our fastest forwards. There's tons of positives, that's just what I can think of right now.

His situation isn't great either, he gets 3rd line minutes with ineffective ES players. He's on the dreadful 2nd PP unit. He's only 22 years old and being asked to carry his own line and be a major part of a PP unit. Of course he's struggled a little, but he still put up 20 goals. This guy has potential. If we actually developed our players like we should, you know like putting them with better players instead of asking young guys to do all the work themselves, we might see better results. Give him 1st line minutes or 1st unit PP time, or even just drop Jake to his wing, and I'm sure people here would have a different tune.

You're just being willfully ignorant and if we sell low on him like with JVR, we'll all be eating crow again.


Last edited by blinds: 05-01-2014 at 09:38 AM.
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05-01-2014, 09:23 AM
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrimFullofAsham45 View Post
Is it just me or is it silly comparing Schenn and JVR? I mean, with JVR you saw flashes of a highly skilled power forward, but the consistency or physicality just wasn't there.

Schenn just seems all around mediocre to me. Can anybody really say there's one thing he truly excels at? You would think he has the skill set to be a decent power forward but he's struggling to find any kind of role whatsoever. I'm not holding my breath for him to blossom under Berube's wing.
They definitely have different skill sets, and are different "brands" of players, but I think what many are advocating for is hanging on to Schenn and giving him another year or two too really flash his potential.

I really don't want another JvR situation, all I'm going to say is.. Imagine JvR - G - Voracek...

That is all. Hang on to Brayden for a couple years.

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05-01-2014, 09:26 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by BrimFullofAsham45 View Post
Is it just me or is it silly comparing Schenn and JVR? I mean, with JVR you saw flashes of a highly skilled power forward, but the consistency or physicality just wasn't there.

Schenn just seems all around mediocre to me. Can anybody really say there's one thing he truly excels at? You would think he has the skill set to be a decent power forward but he's struggling to find any kind of role whatsoever. I'm not holding my breath for him to blossom under Berube's wing.
His shot, board work, and physicality are all above average. He scored 20 goals this year while playing basically third line minutes and with a constant rotation of the worst even strength producers on the team. If he gets legitimate second line minutes next year, he's going to produce at higher levels. It's really that simple. Just run Giroux/Schenn/Couturier/Laughton down the middle next year and be done with it. That's the future at center with this club. If Laughton proves that he's capable of replacing one of Schenn/Couturier, then you explore a trade option next offseason.

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05-01-2014, 09:27 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by JDinkalage Morgoone View Post
The hypocrisy of people panning the JVR trade and at the same time calling for Schenn's head is astounding. I can understand concern, but downright wanting him to be shipped out is awful.
This ^

Also the hate for Coburn is also ridik IMO.

If the right trade came along for Schenn I would consider it but all these howls of just getting rid of him and Coburn for picks or essentially nothing by pulling a JVR and selling low screams complete hockey ignorance...

Yeah I'm annoyed as much as anybody that Schenn couldn't even get a goal and his brother of all people played better. Also annoyed at Coburn's inconsistency but the angst needs to be tempered in both cases.

Flyers need to support both of them better. Coburn get's into trouble when he continues to be relied upon as our number 1 D man. At times he can be but we all know he is not cut out for the full time job so the GM needs to somehow get one or we have to hope we develop one which is an uphill battle in Flyerland.

As far as Brayden..seriously....put him at center and let him develop. Stop catering to useless players like Vinny.

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05-01-2014, 09:36 AM
  #392
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Schenn should stay over Vinny. Schenn is still learning, young and going to be cheaper and should only get better as well.

Trade off Vinny, make Schenn work his simple game and faceoffs on the 2nd line.

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05-01-2014, 09:37 AM
  #393
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he only got 1 more minute,one of them was Top 5 in Qoc among centers the other was bottom 20, 55.2% OZS vs 42.6% OZS.

and even with that he somehow managed to have a worse Corsi Relative than Couturier.

if you look at his advanced stats you would think he is a 4th line center.

if he's going to be good he gonna be like Spezza, doesn't know how to play without the puck,overhandles the puck,poor defensive play and costly turnovers.

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05-01-2014, 09:39 AM
  #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinds View Post
First, playing centers at wing can work very well. You just don't play them on their off wing. It's not a coincidence that Vinny and Schenn are bad at left wing, but are actually effective when playing from the right side. We just can't keep trying to force guys to play on their off wing and expect them to succeed right away. You have to learn how to play from your off side if you haven't done it before. They both have a much easier time on the right side.

With JVR, hindsight bias all the way. Looking back, of course you saw the potential for JVR because you see what he's doing now. Schenn has the same flashes JVR had. His playoffs weren't great, but the Rangers are a hard team to be effective against. He was great against PGH in 2012.

He's not making hard drives to the net like JVR, but that's not his game. Schenn makes some nice nifty moves that aren't quite connecting yet, he's good at stealing the puck, and he's good at finding open ice, he's got one of the best shots on the team. Don't discount being in the right place at the right time, that's a skill to find those places. That's what Stamkos is best at in fact. He's very physical and has the potential to be our best forechecker, he's one of our fastest forwards. There's tons of positives, that's just what I can think of right now.

His situation isn't great either, he gets 3rd line minutes with ineffective ES players. He's on the dreadful 2nd PP unit. He's only 22 years old and being asked to carry his own line and be a major part of a PP unit. Of course he's struggled a little, but he still put up 20 goals. This guy has potential. If we actually developed our players like we should, you know like putting them with better players instead of asking young guys to do all the work themselves, we might see better results. Give him 1st line minutes or 1st unit PP time and I'm sure people here would have a different tune.

You're just being willfully ignorant and if we sell low on him like with JVR, we'll all be eating crow again.
The issue is, he's done nothing nor has he shown anything that's earned him the right to get 1st line minutes or 1st unit pp time. Im not being ignorant, I'm being realistic. If you're expecting Schenn to EVER be a dynamic 1st line player, you are going to severely disappointed. He's not, nor has he shown me anything that makes me believe he has the potential to be.

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05-01-2014, 09:42 AM
  #395
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JVR move if being criticized because of the return we got, if Luke played as he did during his first season no one would be complaining about it.

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05-01-2014, 09:46 AM
  #396
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JVR move if being criticized because of the return we got, if Luke played as he did during his first season no one would be complaining about it.
That's not true, Luke could be playing his best hockey and he still wouldn't be worth JVR. He filled a need, but the value isn't close.

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The issue is, he's done nothing nor has he shown anything that's earned him the right to get 1st line minutes or 1st unit pp time. Im not being ignorant, I'm being realistic. If you're expecting Schenn to EVER be a dynamic 1st line player, you are going to severely disappointed. He's not, nor has he shown me anything that makes me believe he has the potential to be.
No, you are being ignorant. You're suggesting a 22 year old doesn't have the potential to improve at all. He has shown a lot to give him that chance. He's already a 20 goal scorer with 3rd line minutes and 2nd unit PP. You seriously think with more development, better linemates and better minutes he couldn't produce like a 1st liner? You don't need to put up 80 points to be a 1st line player, man.

He was only like 10 points behind Hartnell. The difference is powerplay time, Hartnell just picked up the extra points playing on the 1st unit (and doing jack **** compared to everyone else on that unit).

I wouldn't be surprised to see him produce like JVR if he was on the 1st line and 1st PP like JVR is in Toronto.

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05-01-2014, 09:47 AM
  #397
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The issue is, he's done nothing nor has he shown anything that's earned him the right to get 1st line minutes or 1st unit pp time. Im not being ignorant, I'm being realistic. If you're expecting Schenn to EVER be a dynamic 1st line player, you are going to severely disappointed. He's not, nor has he shown me anything that makes me believe he has the potential to be.
Schenn doesn't have to turn into a first liner to have a spot on this team though. He just needs to become a solid second liner, which he's pretty much proven that he's capable of if he gets the minutes. The only mention of first liner is if he were put on Giroux's wing. And even then, it would only be in a complimentary role.

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05-01-2014, 09:52 AM
  #398
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the difference is JVR showed flashes of offensive brilliance BUT WAS INCONSISTENT . Bschenn has shown no such flashes and is lazy without the puck on a Jeff carter level (without the scoring touch)

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05-01-2014, 09:54 AM
  #399
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Brayden Schenn caused all that snow during the winter.

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05-01-2014, 09:56 AM
  #400
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the difference is JVR showed flashes of offensive brilliance BUT WAS INCONSISTENT . Bschenn has shown no such flashes and is lazy without the puck on a Jeff carter level (without the scoring touch)


apparently I was making that up. obviously not since I'm not the only one to mention that

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