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Old
05-01-2014, 10:57 AM
  #401
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also Schenn never faced the Qoc that JVR did here

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05-01-2014, 11:03 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Displayname40 View Post
the difference is JVR showed flashes of offensive brilliance BUT WAS INCONSISTENT . Bschenn has shown no such flashes and is lazy without the puck on a Jeff carter level (without the scoring touch)
jeff carter's hockey IQ is double that of bschenn's

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05-01-2014, 11:35 AM
  #403
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the difference is JVR showed flashes of offensive brilliance BUT WAS INCONSISTENT . Bschenn has shown no such flashes and is lazy without the puck on a Jeff carter level (without the scoring touch)
Schenn has shown flashes though. Particularly in the first half of last year, there were spells when he looked like he was getting it together. The Pittsburgh series 2 years ago he was great in. His play has nosedived in the final 3rd of this season though.

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05-01-2014, 11:39 AM
  #404
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Schenn has shown flashes though. Particularly in the first half of last year, there were spells when he looked like he was getting it together. The Pittsburgh series 2 years ago he was great in. His play has nosedived in the final 3rd of this season though.
Which is to be expected from a kid who has never played an 82 game season. Him and Lecavalier were the only two putting up points in the first 2 months of the year.

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05-01-2014, 11:40 AM
  #405
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Honestly, I think getting rid of Vinny and solidifying where he is on the line up could really help his confidence. If the kid can put up about 60 points or so a season, I'll be happy.

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05-01-2014, 11:40 AM
  #406
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Corsi is a fine argument when looking at the broader spectrum and using it with other things. It's not that great as a sole metric.

Schenn has looked great at times. He is 22 years old. He scored 41 points. I'm not ready to just ship him out.

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05-01-2014, 11:51 AM
  #407
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Man, Flyers fans are some of the most impatient fans in sports. Guy just played his first full season and did decent and people are ready to ship him out because.. why? He had a bad playoffs against a crazy good defensive team? You're crazy if you think Schenn doesn't show flashes, he's just as inconsistent as any guy who just played his first 82 game season in the NHL.

Where's Appleyard with the stats? IIRC, he scores right around where guys his age with his minutes should be scoring. All the stats show he's developing perfectly fine, but because people say they don't see flashes apparently he's a bust we should get rid of.

Most top picks get sheltered minutes playing with the best players their team has to offer, they don't get 3rd line minutes with poor linemates and weak PP time.

It's really amazing after how spectacularly we got screwed on the JVR trade and how people are already willing to give up on Schenn.


Last edited by blinds: 05-01-2014 at 11:57 AM.
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05-01-2014, 11:52 AM
  #408
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Man, Flyers fans are some of the most impatient fans in sports. Guy just played his first full season and did decent and people are ready to ship him out because.. why? He had a bad playoffs against a crazy good defensive team? You're crazy if you think Schenn doesn't show flashes, he's just as inconsistent as any guy who just played his first 82 game season in the NHL.

Where's Appleyard with the stats? IIRC, he scores right around where guys his age with his minutes should be scoring. All the stats show he's developing perfectly fine, but because people say they don't see flashes apparently he's a bust we should get rid of.

It's really amazing after how spectacularly we got screwed on the JVR trade and how people are already willing to give up on Schenn.
There's no reasoning around here with some people. They want it one way but then in the same breath, the other way.

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05-01-2014, 11:57 AM
  #409
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Originally Posted by JDinkalage Morgoone View Post
Corsi is a fine argument when looking at the broader spectrum and using it with other things. It's not that great as a sole metric.

Schenn has looked great at times. He is 22 years old. He scored 41 points. I'm not ready to just ship him out.
This is pretty accurate. There are a few bigger concerns than Brayden Schenn on this team. Vinny, Rinaldo, Hall, Rosehill being such complete negatives is one of them. Flyers were 2 goals away from a 2nd round meeting with the Pens (which i think they win and get to ECF) so I am not sure shipping off a 40 point center at the age of 22 is the best idea. The defense and ability to have full use of the forwards is much more important.

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05-01-2014, 12:04 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by blinds View Post
Man, Flyers fans are some of the most impatient fans in sports. Guy just played his first full season and did decent and people are ready to ship him out because.. why? He had a bad playoffs against a crazy good defensive team? You're crazy if you think Schenn doesn't show flashes, he's just as inconsistent as any guy who just played his first 82 game season in the NHL.

Where's Appleyard with the stats? IIRC, he scores right around where guys his age with his minutes should be scoring. All the stats show he's developing perfectly fine, but because people say they don't see flashes apparently he's a bust we should get rid of.

Most top picks get sheltered minutes playing with the best players their team has to offer, they don't get 3rd line minutes with poor linemates and weak PP time. Look at a guy like Landeskog over in Colorado, that's the type of minutes Schenn should be getting.

It's really amazing after how spectacularly we got screwed on the JVR trade and how people are already willing to give up on Schenn.
This is the post you are looking for.

Quote:
Schenn had 41 points during the regular season. On the list of 22yr old player-stats in the NHL, there are a few players who go on to have some really nice seasons.

Andrew Ladd - 30 pts / 63 games (2007-2008) - round 1 / 4th overall
Daniel Sedin - 31 pts / 79 games (2002-2003) - round 1 / 2nd overall
Henrik Sedin - 39 pts / 78 games (2002-2003) - round 1 / 3rd overall
Loui Eriksson - 31 pts / 69 games (2007-2008) - round 2 / 33rd overall
Nikolai Zherdev - 32 pts / 71 games (2006-2007) - round 1 / 4th overall
Bryan Little - 34 pts / 79 games (2009-2010) - round 1 / 12th overall
Kyle Turris - 29 pts / 55 games (2011-2012) - round 1 / 3rd overall
Wayne Simmonds - 30 pts / 80 games (2010-2011) - round 2 / 61st overall
Travis Zajac - 34 pts / 82 games (2007-2008) - round 1 / 20th overall
Alexander Steen - 35 pts / 82 games (2006-2007) - round 1 / 24th overall
Brandon Duninsky - 41 pts / 82 games (2008-2009) - round 2 / 60th overall
Justin Williams - 44 pts / 79 games (2003-2004) - round 1 / 28th overall
Patrick Marleau - 44 pts / 79 games (2001-2002) - round 1 / 2nd overall
Henril Zetterberg - 44 pts/ 79 games (2002-2003) - round 7 / 210 overall
Blake Wheeler - 45 pts/ 81 games (2008-2009) - round 1 / 5th overall
Dustin Brown - 46 pts / 81 games (2006-2007) - round 1 / 13th overall
Jakub Voracek - 49 pts / 78 games (2011-2012) - round 1 / 7th overall
James Van Riemsdyk - 24 pts / 43 games (2011-2012) - round 1 / 2nd overall
David Backes - 23 pts / 49 games (2006-2007) - round 2 / 62nd overall

Brayden Schenn - 41 pts / 82 games (2013-2014) - round 1 / 5th overall
Schenn(15:44/G) had the 5th most ESP on the team, tied with Hartnell(16:52/G) who played half the year with G and Voracek. 2 ESP behind Read(18:47/G) and 4 behind Simmonds(16:46/G), 7 behind Voracek(17:15/G), 17 behind G(20:26/G). The difference in Points is easily explained by PP time alone. Is there anyone here who thinks Schenn can't do the same thing or better on the 1st unit that Hartnell does?

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05-01-2014, 12:07 PM
  #411
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BSchenn doesn't want to play wing, though. If he's traded that may play a big part.

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05-01-2014, 12:09 PM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
BSchenn doesn't want to play wing, though. If he's traded that may play a big part.
Schenn-Simmonds with a real LW would be fine.

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05-01-2014, 12:09 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
BSchenn doesn't want to play wing, though. If he's traded that may play a big part.
Which is why I say Vinny should be traded. Vinny has been flopping between the 4th line center job and a winger. Both have not worked out well at all since he sucks ass as a winger and has no good wingers on the 4th line. Keep Schenn, build his confidence and simplify his game and he'll be better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Schenn-Simmonds with a real LW would be fine.
Maybe try to inquire Ottawa and trade Vinny for Ryan. Both ha down years, but Vinny might be nice considering he's actually signed.

Ryan-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Akeson-Couturier-Read
Raffl-Laughton-Hall

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05-01-2014, 12:16 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Schenn-Simmonds with a real LW would be fine.
Homer could have signed MacArthur if he hadn't already blown his load on Vinny.

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05-01-2014, 12:17 PM
  #415
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Which is why I say Vinny should be traded. Vinny has been flopping between the 4th line center job and a winger. Both have not worked out well at all since he sucks ass as a winger and has no good wingers on the 4th line. Keep Schenn, build his confidence and simplify his game and he'll be better.



Maybe try to inquire Ottawa and trade Vinny for Ryan. Both ha down years, but Vinny might be nice considering he's actually signed.

Ryan-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Akeson-Couturier-Read
Raffl-Laughton-Hall
Ottawa is going to be re-building or at least pseudo-re-building so I doubt they have any interest in Vinny. I do like the legion of dumb line though.

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05-01-2014, 12:23 PM
  #416
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Maybe try to inquire Ottawa and trade Vinny for Ryan. Both ha down years, but Vinny might be nice considering he's actually signed.
Yeah he didn't have that bad enough of season for that kind of return. That would be selling extremely low, they won't get back what they paid for Ryan but they can do way better than that.

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05-01-2014, 12:27 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Which is why I say Vinny should be traded. Vinny has been flopping between the 4th line center job and a winger. Both have not worked out well at all since he sucks ass as a winger and has no good wingers on the 4th line. Keep Schenn, build his confidence and simplify his game and he'll be better.



Maybe try to inquire Ottawa and trade Vinny for Ryan. Both ha down years, but Vinny might be nice considering he's actually signed.

Ryan-Giroux-Voracek
Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds
Akeson-Couturier-Read
Raffl-Laughton-Hall
I'm not a fan of the Legion of Dumb. They get good forechecking pressure, but it's never anything more than that. Simmonds and Hartnell are awful with the puck which lets the other team converge on Schenn. Too redundant.

Now, if we separated G and Jake, and had Schenn centering Hartnell and Jake, that could be promising. It would essentially be our first line now with Schenn instead of G, but Hartnell and Jake would be much more effective without the top line match ups and lesser expectations. Schenn and Jake looked good together in the past as well.

Ryan would be nice, but I don't see us getting him until at least the 2015 offseason.

People are mistaking Vinny's awful play at left wing for awful play at both wings, I think. The guy has played center his whole career, it's a completely different game on your off wing but it's a more familiar one on his right wing. He actually played well when he played right wing which hasn't been since before his injury. Right wing gives him space for his shot and stick handling plays, and he's not bad coming off the right wall whereas he couldn't figure out a way to get off the left wall at all and he can't really utilize his shot (which is really his saving grace) as well on the left side.

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05-01-2014, 12:49 PM
  #418
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apparently I was making that up. obviously not since I'm not the only one to mention that
No, he's wrong too. Unless playing good defense and going to the front of the net for the hard goals counts as lazy.

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05-01-2014, 12:53 PM
  #419
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That's not true, Luke could be playing his best hockey and he still wouldn't be worth JVR. He filled a need, but the value isn't close.



No, you are being ignorant. You're suggesting a 22 year old doesn't have the potential to improve at all. He has shown a lot to give him that chance. He's already a 20 goal scorer with 3rd line minutes and 2nd unit PP. You seriously think with more development, better linemates and better minutes he couldn't produce like a 1st liner? You don't need to put up 80 points to be a 1st line player, man.

He was only like 10 points behind Hartnell. The difference is powerplay time, Hartnell just picked up the extra points playing on the 1st unit (and doing jack **** compared to everyone else on that unit).

I wouldn't be surprised to see him produce like JVR if he was on the 1st line and 1st PP like JVR is in Toronto.
Again, ignorance is not defined here. I'm not suggesting a 22 year old doesn't have room to improve. I'm suggesting that Brayden Schenn doesn't have the potential to be much more than what he is. The simple fact that a player is young doesn't mean he has all the room in the world for improvement. Typically you see it with those players. You clearly see what they can be. With JVR, you could see it. Clear as day. You saw what he could potential be and you saw his immense talent level in flashes. I simply do not see that with Brayden Schenn. I see the capability to be an opportunistic 2nd-3rd line center with little 2-way play and below average hockey sense, who can be physical when he wants to be and can maybe hit 50-55 points a couple seasons. I don't see even the slightest ability to be a gamebreaker or a dynamic focal point.

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05-01-2014, 12:57 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
BSchenn doesn't want to play wing, though. If he's traded that may play a big part.
Well, he better accept it, because he looks completely overwhelmed at both ends of the ice at center. It's absurd how easily he gets banged around and how often he's out of position. He needs to be in a less prominent role until he gets that figured out.

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05-01-2014, 01:04 PM
  #421
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Again, ignorance is not defined here. I'm not suggesting a 22 year old doesn't have room to improve. I'm suggesting that Brayden Schenn doesn't have the potential to be much more than what he is. The simple fact that a player is young doesn't mean he has all the room in the world for improvement. Typically you see it with those players. You clearly see what they can be. With JVR, you could see it. Clear as day. You saw what he could potential be and you saw his immense talent level in flashes. I simply do not see that with Brayden Schenn. I see the capability to be an opportunistic 2nd-3rd line center with little 2-way play and below average hockey sense, who can be physical when he wants to be and can maybe hit 50-55 points a couple seasons. I don't see even the slightest ability to be a gamebreaker or a dynamic focal point.
Yeah, I'm the same way. With guys like JVR or Giroux, it was pretty clear early on that they had "it." Schenn hasn't done much to convince me he'll be much more than a Hartnell, after watching him for 3 years. Hartnell had similar production at the same age as Schenn. He's another guy who has talent, but lacks the brain to make the most of it. His production hit its natural level at 22, and has stayed pretty much at the same level ever since with the exception of a couple 60 point seasons.

In the last two years Schenn has shown practically nothing on the ice to indicate his ceiling is much higher than what we're looking at. At 22 Giroux did, and so did JVR. Hell, even Couturier has.

I love stats and all, but they can't be used without context. On their own, a 22 year old putting up his numbers with his usage looks great. But combined with the eyeball test...it's hard to see him growing to a level much higher than what we're currently seeing.

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05-01-2014, 01:08 PM
  #422
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at this rate if Schenn is gonna be just fine, Couturier gonna become Toews.

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05-01-2014, 01:17 PM
  #423
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Schenn does have some playmaking skills, be he turns the puck over too often when pressured. They should try playing him with Giroux. I dont think Schenn is psychical or fast enough to be the #2 C.

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05-01-2014, 01:20 PM
  #424
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Yeah, I'm the same way. With guys like JVR or Giroux, it was pretty clear early on that they had "it." Schenn hasn't done much to convince me he'll be much more than a Hartnell, after watching him for 3 years. Hartnell had similar production at the same age as Schenn. He's another guy who has talent, but lacks the brain to make the most of it. His production hit its natural level at 22, and has stayed pretty much at the same level ever since with the exception of a couple 60 point seasons.

In the last two years Schenn has shown practically nothing on the ice to indicate his ceiling is much higher than what we're looking at. At 22 Giroux did, and so did JVR. Hell, even Couturier has.

I love stats and all, but they can't be used without context. On their own, a 22 year old putting up his numbers with his usage looks great. But combined with the eyeball test...it's hard to see him growing to a level much higher than what we're currently seeing.
I could see Schenn getting 30 Goals getting 1-PP time and top line minutes like Hartnell. He just needs someone a little more gifted than Simmonds to play with on the 2nd Line. Maybe Akeson or Read. Couturier? A healthy Vinny would work.

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05-01-2014, 01:21 PM
  #425
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I would blame Schenn problems 50% on him and 50% on the coaching staff, because the same things happen over and over again.

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