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05-01-2014, 12:21 PM
  #426
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What we were hoping for was an eventual Richards or Carter replacement. I see no way in hell that happens. I'm hoping that, what we accidentally got instead, is a Gagne replacement. Gotta try to be somewhat positive I guess.

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05-01-2014, 12:33 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
What we were hoping for was an eventual Richards or Carter replacement. I see no way in hell that happens. I'm hoping that, what we accidentally got instead, is a Gagne replacement. Gotta try to be somewhat positive I guess.
Did people really think we were trading Richards for someone who will be just as good down the line, plus Simmonds and a 2nd? That seems like pretty wishful thinking. Richards and Carter were really good players, they're not that easy to replace. We got a ton of solid guys back, but none that are really better.

Not that I'm not happy, I think Schenn, Simmonds, Couts and Voracek beats Richards and Carter any day, just that it's not clear any of those 4 will ever be on the level of Richards or Carter while they played for us (they're different players for the Kings, not really relevant to compare).

If Schenn can turn into a Gagne replacement though, I'd be perfectly happy with that.

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05-01-2014, 12:34 PM
  #428
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Well, he better accept it, because he looks completely overwhelmed at both ends of the ice at center. It's absurd how easily he gets banged around and how often he's out of position. He needs to be in a less prominent role until he gets that figured out.
Yeah, I think he'd be better off at wing.

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05-01-2014, 12:39 PM
  #429
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Did people really think we were trading Richards for someone who will be just as good down the line, plus Simmonds and a 2nd? That seems like pretty wishful thinking. Richards and Carter were really good players, they're not that easy to replace. We got a ton of solid guys back, but none that are really better.

Not that I'm not happy, I think Schenn, Simmonds, Couts and Voracek beats Richards and Carter any day, just that it's not clear any of those 4 will ever be on the level of Richards or Carter while they played for us (they're different players for the Kings, not really relevant to compare).

If Schenn can turn into a Gagne replacement though, I'd be perfectly happy with that.
Considering the Flyers' situation at the time, yes, I think they were honestly hoping that Schenn would be able to step into the shoes of either Richards or Carter down the road. He was considered a top prospect (with a highly stupid label), and they had just traded two centers for two wingers. I have to think the org had hopes he would take one of their spots down the line behind Giroux...if not, then I don't get why they bother getting him, or what their logic could possibly have beeen; especially since they had no idea they were getting Couturier. As I recall Schenn was the centerpiece of the trade based on his assumed potential and Simmonds was the add-on.

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05-01-2014, 12:40 PM
  #430
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Schenn needs his chance on Giroux's wing. He can skate well enough, can be physical, and is good at getting open. If he's main job on the line is keep up, and be open I think he'll be fine.

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05-01-2014, 12:42 PM
  #431
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I trust him to play "keep-up" and "get open." Those are two things he's shown he can do.

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05-01-2014, 12:48 PM
  #432
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Did people really think we were trading Richards for someone who will be just as good down the line, plus Simmonds and a 2nd? That seems like pretty wishful thinking.
you have conveniently forgotten what the scouting reports were like on the 5th overall pick of the 2009 nhl draft at the time of that trade.

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05-01-2014, 01:12 PM
  #433
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you have conveniently forgotten what the scouting reports were like on the 5th overall pick of the 2009 nhl draft at the time of that trade.
Yeah despite that Hextall is on record saying that thought process the Kings had on Schenn when they drafted him was that he was five years away. I couldn't find the link but Prongo posted it on here before but here's another one:

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On the development of Brayden Schenn:

“He’s probably, I think, where I thought he’d be right now. He’s a good player for us, he’s played very well. He’s probably been more of our more consistent guys– we have had some issues with consistency- and I think Brayden’s been one of the more consistent guys. We all want to rush too far ahead, it takes time- you look at Kopi or Doughty and these guys- it takes time for a young player to figure out all the new aspects of the game and just to become comfortable at this level and just start producing. That’s a hard thing to do at a young age and I think Brayden right now is probably right on par with where everybody thought. Part of the reason we traded him was because we had to speed up the process of where that team was going and that’s why when you get Mike Richards at 26, and Schenner I think was 20 at the time. That’s a big difference.”
http://mayorsmanor.com/2014/02/ron-h...he-kings-more/

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05-01-2014, 01:17 PM
  #434
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Well, he sure has a LOT to learn and figure out if he wants to meet that 5 year plan. We are entering Year 5 now.

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05-01-2014, 01:21 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm hoping that, what we accidentally got instead, is a Gagne replacement. Gotta try to be somewhat positive I guess.
You made me choke on my food.

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05-01-2014, 01:22 PM
  #436
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I like Schenn. I know we have people in here complain a lot about him but he did give us 20-21-41 this year and the same people thought he had a bad year. The stats are there, especially the ones where it showed he produced most for himself at even strength. Players like Schenn take longer to develop because they have the physical edge they need to gain as well. It's hard for a 20/21 year old to go out and be constantly physical when he is getting hit around simply because the players are more matured. We all preach patience yet we want to run a great talent out the door because before he is 23.

I strongly believe the Flyers traded JVR because they didn't like the way he played. They wanted him to be a physical/skilled winger but all they got was skilled. There was no denying his talent, they like the wingers to play a certain way though. Simmonds/Hartnell/Voracek/Read all provide a great forecheck, especially with the latter being more skill players. JVR just didn't give the Flyers that forecheck. JVR had the body for it, Schenn is still coming into his body.

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05-01-2014, 01:23 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Well, he sure has a LOT to learn and figure out if he wants to meet that 5 year plan. We are entering Year 5 now.
Doesn't help when the first 2 years were only 9 games in the NHL, then being traded and essentially having 3 completely different NHL coaches in his career with different plans to develop him may be a difficult thing. Give the kid time.

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05-01-2014, 01:23 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by ihatebraydenschenn View Post
You made me choke on my food.
Would you say you choked as hard as Schenn in the playoffs?


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05-01-2014, 01:24 PM
  #439
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Doesn't help when the first 2 years were only 9 games in the NHL, then being traded and essentially having 3 completely different NHL coaches in his career with different plans to develop him may be a difficult thing. Give the kid time.
I have given the kid time. The kid has shown very little potential that he'll be much more than what we're currently seeing, much like a 22 year old Hartnell. That would create quite a problem for this running rebuild thing.


That Akeson outperformed him by a wide margin in that series while getting much harder competition on Couturier's wing is a red flag.

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05-01-2014, 01:27 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I have given the kid time. The kid has shown very little potential that he'll be much more than what we're currently seeing, much like a 22 year old Hartnell.

That Akeson outperformed him by a wide margin in that series while getting much harder competition on Couturier's wing is a red flag.
Then you be the GM and trade a 22 year old. He went 41 points in 82 games as a 22 year old. Be patient... holy **** man...

Considering also the ****** start we had of not scoring goals, that affected everyone's points overall.

Why do you think he will be nothing more when he hasn't even hit his prime? Unless you think a center hits their prime at 22?

So that makes Akeson the better player already? Fine. Sign Akeson to a 2 to 3M dollar contract and then ship off Schenn for Slater or something.

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05-01-2014, 01:31 PM
  #441
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Then you be the GM and trade a 22 year old. He went 41 points in 82 games as a 22 year old. Be patient... holy **** man...

Considering also the ****** start we had of not scoring goals, that affected everyone's points overall.

Why do you think he will be nothing more when he hasn't even hit his prime? Unless you think a center hits their prime at 22?

So that makes Akeson the better player already? Fine. Sign Akeson to a 2 to 3M dollar contract and then ship off Schenn for Slater or something.
Hartnell had 48 points in 81 games as a 22 year old. Guess what? He didn't develop much higher than that. He plateaued.

What aspect of Schenn's game screams "I will meet my potential?" There is a lot more about his game that screams "I'm not getting much better than this!"

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05-01-2014, 01:34 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Hartnell had 48 points in 81 games as a 22 year old. Guess what? He didn't develop much higher than that. He plateaued.

What aspect of Schenn's game screams "I will meet my potential?" There is a lot more about his game that screams "I'm not getting much better than this!"
I'm not saying his highest potential, but the idea that you think he will never be better is absurd. He's 22 and still learning ****. He can get better at the draw, he can simplify his game some more so he doesn't do a ton of unnecessary moves and he can learn to get a little better at pass accuracy.

Funny how Hartnell has plateaued then even though he's has 3 52+ point seasons since he was 22...

Do you expect to Schenn to be no more than a 3rd line guy at most? I bet you a million ****ing bucks when we trade him, he's going to explode. So yeah Beef, go ahead and pull your Patrick Sharp move. We gave up on him at the age of 22...

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05-01-2014, 01:34 PM
  #443
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Hey it's May now, people here are behind on shifting focus to the next young player to **** on.

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05-01-2014, 01:46 PM
  #444
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Hartnell had 48 points in 81 games as a 22 year old. Guess what? He didn't develop much higher than that. He plateaued.
beat me to it, here some other guys

Gagner had 49pts as a 19 year old
Dubinsky had 40pts as a 21 year old
Berglund had 47pts as a 19 year old
Frolik had 45pts as a 19 year old
TJ Galiardi had 39pts as a 19 year old

it's up to him if he wanna take his game to the next level or stay like this.

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05-01-2014, 01:50 PM
  #445
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Then trade off Schenn. Have Vinny in his place? Or is he gone too? Then who do we have at center? Couturier is immediately ready for 2nd line duty? Laughton for 3rd?

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05-01-2014, 01:52 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I have given the kid time. The kid has shown very little potential that he'll be much more than what we're currently seeing, much like a 22 year old Hartnell. That would create quite a problem for this running rebuild thing.

That Akeson outperformed him by a wide margin in that series while getting much harder competition on Couturier's wing is a red flag.
I'm not privy to give up on a soon to be 23 year old who just completed his first full year in the NHL while being shifted in & out of two positions the entire time here. I would be willing to listen to trade offers if the value is there but holding on to him for another year if the demands aren't there wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Akeson outperformed the majority of the team including his two linemates so why is that only used as a slight against Schenn & not the others. Quickly you forget the impact Schenn had in his first playoff series against Pittsburgh which was far better than Akeson's this year yet you call Schenn garbage now.

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05-01-2014, 01:53 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I'm not privy to give up on a soon to be 23 year old who just completed his first full year in the NHL while being shifted in & out of two positions the entire time here. I would be willing to listen to trade offers if the value is there but holding on to him for another year if the demands aren't there wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Akeson outperformed the majority of the team including his two linemates so why is that only used as a slight against Schenn & not the others. Quickly you forget the impact Schenn had in his first playoff series against Pittsburgh which was far better than Akeson's this year yet you call Schenn garbage now.
The "What have you done for me lately?" strikes again.

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05-01-2014, 01:54 PM
  #448
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Quickly you forget the impact Schenn had in his first playoff series against Pittsburgh which was far better than Akeson's this year yet you call Schenn garbage now.
I don't think anyone's forgotten that
the issue is that we've barely seen anything but mere glimpses of that kind of play from bschenn since then

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05-01-2014, 01:54 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Hartnell had 48 points in 81 games as a 22 year old. Guess what? He didn't develop much higher than that. He plateaued.

What aspect of Schenn's game screams "I will meet my potential?" There is a lot more about his game that screams "I'm not getting much better than this!"
Hartnell is a 50 pt forward. If B Schenn becomes a consistent 50 pt guy while getting 16 min/game I wouldn't be disappointed because that's pretty much all you can ask for (it's been proven that 50ish points is the highest a player can produce from year to year when playing 16 min or less a game with very few outliers). And btw, Schenn just finished his first full season in the NHL. When Hartnell put up 48 pts in 81 games as a 23 year old (2005-1982=23) he was in his 5th NHL season with 297 NHL games under his belt (that's before the start of the season).

Quote:
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I don't think anyone's forgotten that
the issue is that we've barely seen anything but mere glimpses of that kind of play from bschenn since then
Inconsistent 22 year old, go figure.


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05-01-2014, 01:58 PM
  #450
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Wow, too many posts to reply to.

1) I haven't given up on the kid. I don't want him traded. But I no longer have any hope that he'll be the impact player we thought we acquired. It looks now like he's a complimentary player. Teams need those too, but it does throw a large wrench into the planned running rebuild since our 2C plans are a mess.

2) BRAYDEN SCHENN SUCKS.

3) Perhaps he would improve if we hired Stevens to bake him things after good games. Give him incentive.

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