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Brayden Schenn

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Old
03-12-2014, 08:16 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Then you weren't watching. Off the top of my head Schenn and Mason won us the last game against the Penguins.
We're 60~ games in, is that the only one that comes to mind? Mate, I don't want to be saying this but he's not developing at all. He is completely invisible most nights and on the few nights a season he looks interested it's short lived.

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Outside of the Bruins series JVR didn't have very many games where he took over either just some great shifts. Keep in mind Schenn and JVR have virtually identical ppg totals, at the same age while getting similar minutes (under 16 without top unit pp time). This is a very similar situation, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
It's all about impressions. JVR didn't always bring it but he did have that spark about him where he looked like a future star. I genuinely haven't seen anything special about him, he looks to be stagnating. He's not lazy or anything, and that's the problem. He's trying his hardest out there but still making no impression.

He's got 175 NHL games under his belt now, it's time he really started trending upwards.

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03-12-2014, 08:22 PM
  #152
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I think Schenn will turn into a really good 2C but right now he is playing with Vinny who is completely awful in every aspect for the game of hockey and Simmonds who is great on the power play and pretty average at even strength. Just put someone a little more competent on his LW and I think his production will start to go up.

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03-12-2014, 10:19 PM
  #153
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Emery actually started the last game against the Pens.

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03-12-2014, 11:08 PM
  #154
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Schenn aside from G is our most consistent producer and has been for years now, on a streaky team. Does it with no prime icetime. Why would you get rid of that, because he's not flashy enough while he's at it? The kids a warrior and doesn't hesitate to fight for his teammates. Anyone who seems to think he's lazy and clearly doesn't have "it" is actually missing "it".

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03-12-2014, 11:22 PM
  #155
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Schenn aside from G is our most consistent producer and has been for years now, on a streaky team. Does it with no prime icetime. Why would you get rid of that, because he's not flashy enough while he's at it? The kids a warrior and doesn't hesitate to fight for his teammates. Anyone who seems to think he's lazy and clearly doesn't have "it" is actually missing "it".
Amen. He's had a couple so-so games, but then again, he did take a pretty nasty shot from Orlov. I agree, he's a warrior, and he's producing. What's not to like?

I guess I shouldn't be disappointed but there are a just a slew of scapegoat threads here, based on two losses after a whole slew of wins. Really people? No perspective at all?

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03-12-2014, 11:49 PM
  #156
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I hear what you're saying and I know exactly what you're talking about but I honestly don't think it's because he's lazy or anything. The Schenns are part of a group of Flyers (I think 5 or so players) that stay after every practice and work on things. I was reading this in an article recently, Cobrun and Gill are two others iirc. That doesn't sound like a player that's not committed. I'll try to find a link.

I think all this stems from his "hockey IQ" outside of the offensive zone and his lack of experience (a little over two seasons now in terms of games played in which he was jerked around from center to wing several times).

Edit: Here is the aforementioned article http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=706191
typical flyers fans, if he is not a hof player at 1 years old he is a bust.

Brayden has been a top tier player at every other level. sometimes a guy has to adapt to the speed of the game. hopefully this is the case with him, everyone develops differently. Let's complain when he is 25.

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03-13-2014, 12:03 AM
  #157
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Not worried about Schenn. He's been bad for two games... and those two games the entire team has been pretty bad with the exception of a few players (Giroux, Couturier, ect). I still say try him at wing. That secludes both Hartnell and Vinny to one line of suckage and gives Schenn a chance to produce with good linemates.

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03-13-2014, 12:40 AM
  #158
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Amen. He's had a couple so-so games, but then again, he did take a pretty nasty shot from Orlov. I agree, he's a warrior, and he's producing. What's not to like?

I guess I shouldn't be disappointed but there are a just a slew of scapegoat threads here, based on two losses after a whole slew of wins. Really people? No perspective at all?
Most of the people in here are judging Schenn by his tenure as a Flyer and what he's shown so far, not by the last two games. You should try that perspective thing, perhaps?

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03-13-2014, 01:40 AM
  #159
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With the exception of Colorado, Pittsburgh and San Jose, I think the majority of second line centres in this league are producing 50ish points per season.
He usually plays under 17 minutes per game and is a great source of hits and grit.
I'd be asking for more out of a 25/26 year old schenn, but I think he's doing just fine in his current role.

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03-13-2014, 08:48 AM
  #160
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So, if the thought is that we should trade Schenn in order to obtain a top defender, that is fine. I get that, however, it will cost a lot more than Schenn to do so. I'm not necessarily opposed to that, depending on what the return is and what the added price would be (hell, I even bought a Couturier jersey instead of Schenn because I think Schenn is more likely to be dealt than Coots).

But if the idea is that we need to trade Schenn because he is not going to get any better than his current abilities and we need to get something in return for him now before its too late, then I vehemently disagree. He is just 22, remember? He's got time to mature and improve his defense and offense. It isn't like he's making $5 million and not living up to that contract. He's probably going to get a deal like Couturier's for his next deal, maybe a little more. He may not be dominating or even living up to the hype that surrounded him when he was drafted/came into the league, but he certainly is playing at an acceptable level for a 22 year old. For all the whining about JvR, Schenn is scoring at the exact same pace that JvR did when he was 22. There is no reason other than the fact that for a couple games during the playoffs one year JvR looked great that should make you think Schenn is not going to be as good as JvR or other comparable player. I also might add that in Schenn's only playof experience in the NHL, he scored 9 points in 11 games, more than JvR did the season when he was dominating in the playoffs.

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03-13-2014, 09:21 AM
  #161
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It's a matter of asset management.

The Flyers are loaded with centers: Giroux, Lecavalier, B. Schenn and Couturier plus their top prospect who is by all accounts NHL ready is a center. The Flyers are not as deep at wing. The Flyers are weak on defense. It is stands to reason that a center should be traded to help on defense. It won't be Giroux. Lecavalier has a not trade and after this year, nobody is going to give up anything of value to get him. Laughton is a prospect which have less value on the trade market then an NHL regular. Plus he is cheap and can play fourth line center next year which none of the guys on the team are suited to play at this point in their careers. So its a matter of trading either Couturier or B. Schenn IMO.

For those that say stand pat and let this team jell another year, here is the starting defense next year as of today if they sign MacDonald.

Coburn-Streit
Grossmann-MacDonald
L. Schenn-Gustaffson.

Caps supposed to be around 69-70 leaving the flyers with 10-11 million to spend. Subtract 4.5 for MacDonald, leaving 6.5 for B. Schenn, Raffl, gus, a backup goalie, and 2 fourth line forwards unless Rosehill plays every game.

With that defense, standing pat doesn't look like an option to me.

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03-13-2014, 09:25 AM
  #162
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I could see a bourque for vinny trade in the summer. They need a center and we would get a bad contract back but in the short term

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03-13-2014, 09:45 AM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
It's a matter of asset management.

The Flyers are loaded with centers: Giroux, Lecavalier, B. Schenn and Couturier plus their top prospect who is by all accounts NHL ready is a center. The Flyers are not as deep at wing. The Flyers are weak on defense. It is stands to reason that a center should be traded to help on defense. It won't be Giroux. Lecavalier has a not trade and after this year, nobody is going to give up anything of value to get him. Laughton is a prospect which have less value on the trade market then an NHL regular. Plus he is cheap and can play fourth line center next year which none of the guys on the team are suited to play at this point in their careers. So its a matter of trading either Couturier or B. Schenn IMO.

For those that say stand pat and let this team jell another year, here is the starting defense next year as of today if they sign MacDonald.

Coburn-Streit
Grossmann-MacDonald
L. Schenn-Gustaffson.

Caps supposed to be around 69-70 leaving the flyers with 10-11 million to spend. Subtract 4.5 for MacDonald, leaving 6.5 for B. Schenn, Raffl, gus, a backup goalie, and 2 fourth line forwards unless Rosehill plays every game.

With that defense, standing pat doesn't look like an option to me.
And that's fine. Like I said, I would deal Schenn for the right package. I'd deal Couturier for the right package as well (although now that I have a jersey I'd be less willing...).

I don't think, however, that there is a NEED to trade Schenn. There is a need to upgrade the defense, absolutely. But there is no need to trade Schenn. I don't know if upgrading the defense can be accomplished without trading Schenn, but I am not going to trade Schenn for a marginal upgrade on defense or an older guy. IDK who is available, but Yandle, Weber, and guys of that ilk are who I would target. Obviously, more would be added to the deal, but if it was a return like that I would be fine. I would not trade him for picks and prospects. I would not trade him for a winger (unless it was a guy around his age). I would not trade him for a defender that is just ok.

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03-13-2014, 10:51 AM
  #164
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As far as production goes, it really doesn't help that the 2nd PP unit both suck and get the tail-end of every PP.

Schenn reminds me a lot of JVR, in the sense that he seems to have it all, but not together yet. I'm pretty confident he'll get there soon enough, though.

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03-13-2014, 11:50 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
So, if the thought is that we should trade Schenn in order to obtain a top defender, that is fine. I get that, however, it will cost a lot more than Schenn to do so. I'm not necessarily opposed to that, depending on what the return is and what the added price would be (hell, I even bought a Couturier jersey instead of Schenn because I think Schenn is more likely to be dealt than Coots).

But if the idea is that we need to trade Schenn because he is not going to get any better than his current abilities and we need to get something in return for him now before its too late, then I vehemently disagree. He is just 22, remember? He's got time to mature and improve his defense and offense. It isn't like he's making $5 million and not living up to that contract. He's probably going to get a deal like Couturier's for his next deal, maybe a little more. He may not be dominating or even living up to the hype that surrounded him when he was drafted/came into the league, but he certainly is playing at an acceptable level for a 22 year old. For all the whining about JvR, Schenn is scoring at the exact same pace that JvR did when he was 22. There is no reason other than the fact that for a couple games during the playoffs one year JvR looked great that should make you think Schenn is not going to be as good as JvR or other comparable player. I also might add that in Schenn's only playof experience in the NHL, he scored 9 points in 11 games, more than JvR did the season when he was dominating in the playoffs.
I completely agree. This season is proving that Couts is untouchable. People should look at Giroux's numbers when he was 22.

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Old
03-13-2014, 12:21 PM
  #166
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I completely agree. This season is proving that Couts is untouchable. People should look at Giroux's numbers when he was 22.
Yup, Giroux scored 47 points in 09-10 while getting a little over 15 min a game and 2nd pp unit duties. He finished that year 22 years old. Brayden is getting a little under 16 min a game, 2nd unit pp duties and is pacing for 45 points also at the age of 22. It wasn't until 10-11 that G broke out but he got a huge bust in ice time, leading all forwards with almost 19 and a half minutes on a team with Richards, Briere and Carter, and was bumped up to the first pp unit.

All things considered (age and experience but primarily ice time) Brayden is producing as much as could realistically be expected.

JVR is another example. He avg less then 16 a game here and in his final season he paced for 45 points. After moving to TO he got a bump of ~5 minutes a game, is on the 1st pp unit and is playing the opposite wing of an All-Star. It's no wonder he's producing. If people want Schenn to put up similar points he needs to be put in a similar position to succeed. If not they you can't expect much more then you're getting, it's just not how it works.

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And that's fine. Like I said, I would deal Schenn for the right package. I'd deal Couturier for the right package as well (although now that I have a jersey I'd be less willing...).

I don't think, however, that there is a NEED to trade Schenn. There is a need to upgrade the defense, absolutely. But there is no need to trade Schenn. I don't know if upgrading the defense can be accomplished without trading Schenn, but I am not going to trade Schenn for a marginal upgrade on defense or an older guy. IDK who is available, but Yandle, Weber, and guys of that ilk are who I would target. Obviously, more would be added to the deal, but if it was a return like that I would be fine. I would not trade him for picks and prospects. I would not trade him for a winger (unless it was a guy around his age). I would not trade him for a defender that is just ok.
I agree.

That was weird.

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03-13-2014, 12:35 PM
  #167
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I think Schenn will turn into a really good 2C but right now he is playing with Vinny who is completely awful in every aspect for the game of hockey and Simmonds who is great on the power play and pretty average at even strength. Just put someone a little more competent on his LW and I think his production will start to go up.
Or to look at it from a different perspective, everyone on Schenn's line has been struggling this season. Maybe he's the problem?

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03-13-2014, 12:38 PM
  #168
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I agree.

That was weird.
Yeah, sometimes I am a member of the majority view around here. Sometimes.

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03-13-2014, 12:56 PM
  #169
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Or to look at it from a different perspective, everyone on Schenn's line has been struggling this season. Maybe he's the problem?
No, he's not. Remember Hartnell-Schenn-Simmonds line? I would say they were playing great hockey (maybe I am saying that because I was expecting disaster from that line)

I really hope we don't trade Brayden. With the limited ice time he gets, he is doing just fine.

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03-13-2014, 01:04 PM
  #170
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I'm not worried about BSchenn's development at all. Unfortunately, on this team, you're not in a position to produce consistent offensive numbers if you're not on the top line. Given that BSchenn's been with the misfit line most of the year, I think he's been as consistent as you could possibly expect of him.

Though he's had a couple poor performances recently, so to say he's been great is not true; I just don't think you can get on his case for not lighting it up this year.

If he got an extended look with Giroux, I think all doubts about his ability to put it all together would be laid to rest.

EDIT: You'd think after JVR Flyers fans would be more cautious about losing faith in young players. JVR's breakout last season wasn't much of a breakout at all. It was just the natural progression of a young player getting more ice time and, more importantly, more ice time with better players.

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03-13-2014, 01:36 PM
  #171
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I'm not worried about BSchenn's development at all. Unfortunately, on this team, you're not in a position to produce consistent offensive numbers if you're not on the top line. Given that BSchenn's been with the misfit line most of the year, I think he's been as consistent as you could possibly expect of him.

Though he's had a couple poor performances recently, so to say he's been great is not true; I just don't think you can get on his case for not lighting it up this year.

If he got an extended look with Giroux, I think all doubts about his ability to put it all together would be laid to rest.

EDIT: You'd think after JVR Flyers fans would be more cautious about losing faith in young players. JVR's breakout last season wasn't much of a breakout at all. It was just the natural progression of a young player getting more ice time and, more importantly, more ice time with better players.
Good point. I would rather they try other people, but its usually Hartnell that gets the top line minutes with Giroux.

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03-13-2014, 01:56 PM
  #172
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Schenn reminds me of Gagne (calm down) in that he is really good at making himself invisible to defenseman in the offensive zone. He finds a way to get lost and find a good scoring location. He can't really create much offense on his own, but I think he'd be a good compliment to Voracek and Giroux.

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03-13-2014, 02:45 PM
  #173
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Good point. I would rather they try other people, but its usually Hartnell that gets the top line minutes with Giroux.
I think the only way Schenn is moved is for a young top 2 dman. If Schenn continues his progression at this rate then I think he will be a better Kesler.

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03-13-2014, 02:51 PM
  #174
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Schenn reminds me of Gagne (calm down) in that he is really good at making himself invisible to defenseman in the offensive zone. He finds a way to get lost and find a good scoring location. He can't really create much offense on his own, but I think he'd be a good compliment to Voracek and Giroux.
Exactly this.

People mistake Schenn's invisibility as his undoing. I find it to be his greatest strength, provided we actually gave him an opportunity to use that strength to his advantage.

Steven Stamkos also has this ability to go invisible. He also has many more tools at his disposal, but he is such a prolific goal scorer because he's so effective at finding the soft spots in coverage. Of course, players like Simmonds, Hartnell, and Lecavalier are not effective linemates for players like these. He needs to be with possession players who can hold the puck while he goes invisible, then reappears with the puck on his stick in the slot.

Giroux and Voracek are excellent complements to his game, and it irks me that we have yet to see that combo for more than a couple games.


I also foresee Stamkos being less productive at 5v5 until he finds a player who can complement him the same way MSL did. But that's sort of unrelated. Though it also exemplifies why BSchenn is generally unproductive in his current role.

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03-13-2014, 03:06 PM
  #175
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I could see a bourque for vinny trade in the summer. They need a center and we would get a bad contract back but in the short term
I think the Vinny to Bolts for Ryan Malone makes sense. Similar cap hits for Tampa, they get their guy back to replace MSL, and if Vinny regresses he retires and takes a job with the Bolts and continues to get his buyout $$.

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