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Old
01-22-2014, 09:55 PM
  #201
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Except Gus has been better defensively for a while now and before the last 10 games he was better offensively as well while facing harder comp, with the same d partner. Not to mention he's younger, doesn't have the injury concerns and he's cheaper going forward.

Mez right now is pure offense but he's beyond terrible in his own zone. Also where is this he's got "limitless potential bc he's undrafted" bs coming from. You've said this multiple times but you're the only one I've ever seen say that. It's obvious you just don't like Gus, I mean why else would you start a value of thread for him in the trade board?
He actually did that? Bet that went well.

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01-22-2014, 10:01 PM
  #202
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yeah like all these guys saying mez will sustain a PPG pace
You should try reading a little harder. I never claimed anybody said he would maintain, or is, a ppg player. I advised against falling into the trap of believing he's reformed because of 10 great games well above his normal production rate.

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01-22-2014, 10:21 PM
  #203
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replacing Mez with Gus is not going to make much of a difference

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01-23-2014, 01:21 AM
  #204
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replacing Mez with Gus is not going to make much of a difference
I don't know.

Mobile defensemen who play a responsible game in their own zone as well are exactly what we are lacking right now.

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01-23-2014, 02:05 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
He actually did that? Bet that went well.
Only flyers fans responded lol, no one has ever heard of him.

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01-23-2014, 02:14 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
You should try reading a little harder. I never claimed anybody said he would maintain, or is, a ppg player. I advised against falling into the trap of believing he's reformed because of 10 great games well above his normal production rate.

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Originally Posted by Tymed
Struggles no worse than the rest of the team to start this season, but gets whipped on because he was already the whipping boy. Now on a streak of PPG over the last 11 or 12, helping us win games and you can't give him a sliver of credit?

Give me a break, seriously----The guy has been producing at 30+ pace his whole career
aside from a cpl season in Tampa which was a defensive graveyard for so many years.
To which you said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Mez hasn't been a consistent offensive producer since 2007-8.

He flat out isn't a PPG producer. He never has been. He peaks at 36 points, and that was a long time ago.

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01-23-2014, 02:40 AM
  #207
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Because Mez was producing at a PPG pace at the time. I was pointing out that won't continue.

I was not addressing that part of the post specifically at his 30 point comment. Nor was it my intention to put any words in his mouth. My entire goal, for the zillionth time, was to point out that he was producing at a completely unsustainable rate. I don't know how to make that clearer.

This simple fact remains: His ten game streak is an outlier nowadays. it has been 3 years and several major injuries since he produced consistently. It's incredibly, incredibly optimistic to believe his old form is still the norm. Expecting him to produce at his normal pace over the course of an entire season is probably hoping for too much, and considering he actually looks worse at D than he used to...he really, really needs to put up points to be worth anything.

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Old
01-23-2014, 07:58 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
He actually did that? Bet that went well.
It was mostly Flyers fans who responded and maybe 2 or 3 others. I don't even think the thread made it to a second page. Flyers fans tried to explain that we wouldn't get anything worth while and considering how much he costs and how he's a solid 3rd pairing guy who fills a team need (decent skating puck mover who solid in his own zone) he really wouldn't be worth trading.

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Only flyers fans responded lol, no one has ever heard of him.
Swedish fans know him well from the WC last season. He was their best d-man. Was tied for first in TOI during the tournament, got loads of pk time and wasn't on the ice for a single goal against the entire tournament. He also scored the tying goal in the gold medal game before Sweden went ahead for the win.

The baseless hate continues though.

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Old
01-23-2014, 11:34 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
replacing Mez with Gus is not going to make much of a difference
it might make a difference if we get a 2nd round pick for mez.

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Old
01-23-2014, 11:52 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
replacing Mez with Gus is not going to make much of a difference
well if they traded Mez for a pick and replaced him with Gus it could eventually make a difference. It would give the team cap space to improve the team.
I know that goes against everything the Flyers do but it would be a good move if they did it. If Gus can give you exactly what Mez can minus 3 million in cap space why wouldnt you do it?

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01-23-2014, 12:18 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
well if they traded Mez for a pick and replaced him with Gus it could eventually make a difference. It would give the team cap space to improve the team.
I know that goes against everything the Flyers do but it would be a good move if they did it. If Gus can give you exactly what Mez can minus 3 million in cap space why wouldnt you do it?
I was talking about scratching Mez for Gus. My point was there really isn't any difference between the two that would make us a better team depending on which one of the two was in the line-up

Obviously trading Mez for a pick could help us in the long run, but we'll be lucky to get anything over a 4th rounder for him

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01-23-2014, 12:20 PM
  #212
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Well, Gus can actually play defense so that's a nice improvement right there.

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Old
01-23-2014, 12:22 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
well if they traded Mez for a pick and replaced him with Gus it could eventually make a difference. It would give the team cap space to improve the team.
I know that goes against everything the Flyers do but it would be a good move if they did it. If Gus can give you exactly what Mez can minus 3 million in cap space why wouldnt you do it?
The contract ends in july. Please tell me how we could improve the team with that capspace now? Is it a deadline trade you are suggesting?

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01-23-2014, 12:34 PM
  #214
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yeah we definitely need mobility on the back end right now. following up the grossmann-streit pairing with luke-mez is a recipe for getting pinned in your own end against good forechecking teams.

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01-23-2014, 12:54 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by flyerfanish View Post
The contract ends in july. Please tell me how we could improve the team with that capspace now? Is it a deadline trade you are suggesting?
yes. if Gus can give you what Mez can at a cheaper cap hit why not move him? you can get a good player at the deadline for 4 million that can help you out.
trade Meszaros for a pick and see what you can do to improve the team at the deadline.

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01-23-2014, 01:15 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
it might make a difference if we get a 2nd round pick for mez.
If we got a 2nd AND shed 4 mil before the deadline of course we'd do it.

Thing is, that offer isn't there. I'll post it on the main board and we can see how it fairs.

More likely:
Mez + 4th
For
~2 mil cap dump + 2nd


Gus is worth about a 3/4th
Mez straight up maybe a 5/6th

I'd rather just have the better player on the ice than a late pick

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01-23-2014, 01:20 PM
  #217
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I honestly think Mez is playing to showcase him for teams in need of a defender.

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01-23-2014, 01:31 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
If we got a 2nd AND shed 4 mil before the deadline of course we'd do it.

Thing is, that offer isn't there. I'll post it on the main board and we can see how it fairs.

More likely:
Mez + 4th
For
~2 mil cap dump + 2nd


Gus is worth about a 3/4th
Mez straight up maybe a 5/6th

I'd rather just have the better player on the ice than a late pick
But he's not...



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01-23-2014, 01:33 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I honestly think Mez is playing to showcase him for teams in need of a defender.
He's been playing really well as of late so it may be a combination of the two. In reality, I think it is just who the coaches are more comfortable with at any given time. I know it is hard for some people around here to believe, but Berube might just prefer having Meszaros out there. It is possible that Mesz is being played because he is being shopped, for sure, but he also hasn't been as bad as many are saying.

You are giving very little credit to Berube and/or the organization, essentially saying that they either have some sort of conspiracy against Gus and are playing Mesz even though it is hurting the team because they are too stupid to see how good Gus is, or they are playing Mesz to showcase him which is hurting the team. It doesn't appear that it is possible in the minds of many on here that the team simply likes Meszaros better and thinks he is a better asset to the team. There has to be some sort of ulterior motive. Either a complete misjudgment of Gus's talent (what appears to be the main theory) or a desire to trade Mesz (which frankly, if it hasn't happened at this point, continually playing an inferior player in the midst of contending for a playoff spot is completely unacceptable...a couple game here and there to showcase him, fine, but to play a guy more than half the season while a better player sits the bench is ridiculous). Yet these two theories seem to be the accepted as fact. Strange.

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01-23-2014, 01:38 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
But he's not...


Well, seeing as Berube thinks he is, the burden-of-proof lies on the conspiracy theorists


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
He's been playing really well as of late so it may be a combination of the two. In reality, I think it is just who the coaches are more comfortable with at any given time. I know it is hard for some people around here to believe, but Berube might just prefer having Meszaros out there. It is possible that Mesz is being played because he is being shopped, for sure, but he also hasn't been as bad as many are saying.

You are giving very little credit to Berube and/or the organization, essentially saying that they either have some sort of conspiracy against Gus and are playing Mesz even though it is hurting the team because they are too stupid to see how good Gus is, or they are playing Mesz to showcase him which is hurting the team. It doesn't appear that it is possible in the minds of many on here that the team simply likes Meszaros better and thinks he is a better asset to the team. There has to be some sort of ulterior motive. Either a complete misjudgment of Gus's talent (what appears to be the main theory) or a desire to trade Mesz (which frankly, if it hasn't happened at this point, continually playing an inferior player in the midst of contending for a playoff spot is completely unacceptable...a couple game here and there to showcase him, fine, but to play a guy more than half the season while a better player sits the bench is ridiculous). Yet these two theories seem to be the accepted as fact. Strange.
yep, the conspiracy guys

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01-23-2014, 01:44 PM
  #221
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Then Berube is making a bad decision, because Mez is bad at defense and that's an area he needs to be looking to improve.

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01-23-2014, 02:10 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Then Berube is making a bad decision, because Mez is bad at defense and that's an area he needs to be looking to improve.
Yea... dont see how these two can refute this. It's like staring at the grass, seeing it's green, and stating well it could be magenta.

Mesz, statistically and with the eye, is extremely bad defensively. Extremely. No hands over ears would change this.

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01-23-2014, 03:02 PM
  #223
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The Gus bus is up and running again I see.

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01-23-2014, 03:59 PM
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Yea... dont see how these two can refute this. It's like staring at the grass, seeing it's green, and stating well it could be magenta.

Mesz, statistically and with the eye, is extremely bad defensively. Extremely. No hands over ears would change this.
In the month of January, Mesz has looked overall pretty decent. Are you going to tell me that if you are Craig Berube you are going to bench Mesz right now? Even if Mesz is only given easy minutes and in the offensive zone...who cares if he is playing those minutes well. Someone has to play the easy minutes. It's not like Gus is going to be put out there with 30 seconds left up by one with the goalie pulled in the defensive zone. If Mesz cools down, go ahead and bench him, but when Gus went down with the injury, Mesz stepped up. As I said in pre-season, Gus has not earned the spot to the point where he should be handed anything. If he slips, someone else (anyone really, not just Mesz) can step up and take it. Ride Mesz out until he fizzles, and if he doesn't, great. Gus will still be there when Mesz leaves.

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01-23-2014, 04:25 PM
  #225
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In the month of January, Mez has been good offensively. But he has been a wreck defensively, and that contributes to the team's overall defensive struggles.

He has 10 points in January...yet he's just a +3. So he's only barely been outscoring his defensive gaffes. When he inevitably cools down, he'll go back to being purely detrimental like he was before.


On that note, Grossmann is a lot more alarming at 3 points and a -7. His drop in play likely has a lot to do with the defensive struggles. But adding Mez to the roster has certainly done nothing to alleviate the problem.

Edit: And once again..that's the thing. Gus will still be here when Mez leaves. There's no reason to keep Gus on such a short leash while giving Mez endless chances. Play the guy who'll be here in the future who could use the starts. Mez should be the one on a sort leash.

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