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Our teams bread and butter

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Old
01-09-2014, 10:29 PM
  #1
LeafsRockForBabcock
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Our teams bread and butter

So what is our teams bread and butter? Every team has a go to strength that they rely on to win them games. Sometimes it works, like Boston being physical and hard to play against, and sometimes it doesn't quite work, like the Oilers being a rush team.

However, this team doesn't have any style. Last year their working identity was a strong physical game and strong offense. This season, they aren't physical, they can't score, and they can't play defense. They can't do board work, they can't even gain the other teams zone. So how do they expect to win?

The team is trying to do everything well, and it doesn't work like that. You know what I think the problem is? Watching 24/7, Randy always preps them saying this team likes to do this, so lets try to counter it by doing this.

Nearly every team in the league chooses a style and plays with it. The leafs however, play differently every night depending on their opponent. Against Boston the try to play physical, against Pitts they try to play the speed game, it's a mess. They leafs should be making other teams play their way like they did last year. What are we? A rush team that can't score, a defensive team that can't play defense, a grinding team that isn't physical? Pick one and have every player play into it.

Randy has gone off the deep end this season. Last year I loved him, this pre season I loved him, then we started getting out worked, out shot and out played. This IMO is all on him and Nonis. Either change the coach to someone who will implement a steady system, or have Carlyle choose a system and have Nonis give him players he needs.

We've seen this all before, and it's ****ing ********. Wait until the leafs ruin Morgan like they did with Luke, wait until all our up and coming players figure out that they can play half assed and not be held accountable. What has our players done the past 30 games? **** all. Play anyone who plays like they care and who play with heart top line minutes for a few games. At least if we lose, it won't be because our top players are floating around like a lost balloon at the circus.

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01-09-2014, 10:30 PM
  #2
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01-09-2014, 10:37 PM
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The Thin White Duke
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01-09-2014, 10:38 PM
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Nazemlupul
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Rush team

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01-09-2014, 10:48 PM
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Speed and physicality.


A shame neither one is anywhere to be found this season.

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01-09-2014, 10:50 PM
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Duffman955
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Originally Posted by VoicexOfxReason View Post
Speed and physicality.


A shame neither one is anywhere to be found this season.
I think the dump and go change system has something to do with that.

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01-09-2014, 10:53 PM
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gamer1035
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Nonis and Carlyle ate all the bread and butter

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01-09-2014, 10:55 PM
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topched
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
I think the dump and go change system has something to do with that.
There are those who would have you believe Randy put that system in place.

Someone out there truly believes 24/7 just stepped out of the room when Randy said "okay guys, gameplan tonight is skate over the redline and get off the ice... lets move our feet and dump it for 60 mins"

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01-09-2014, 11:06 PM
  #9
The Thin White Duke
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Originally Posted by topched View Post
There are those who would have you believe Randy put that system in place.

Someone out there truly believes 24/7 just stepped out of the room when Randy said "okay guys, gameplan tonight is skate over the redline and get off the ice... lets move our feet and dump it for 60 mins"
Two options:

1) Carlyle has control of the locker room and is just incompetent as an NHL head coach.

2) Carlyle has absolutely zero control of the locker room but is a capable NHL coach.

Now, I'm leaning towards option two, but either way he needs to go. Easier to get a new coach than to trade all our major pieces at a loss.

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01-09-2014, 11:14 PM
  #10
ForzaZuffa
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01-09-2014, 11:18 PM
  #11
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01-09-2014, 11:19 PM
  #12
topched
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Originally Posted by The Thin White Duke View Post
Two options:

1) Carlyle has control of the locker room and is just incompetent as an NHL head coach.

2) Carlyle has absolutely zero control of the locker room but is a capable NHL coach.

Now, I'm leaning towards option two, but either way he needs to go. Easier to get a new coach than to trade all our major pieces at a loss.
There are more options though... things aren't so black and white.

3) Carlyle has control of the locker room, the players are slumping majorly, all at the same time (this happens in all pro sports)

4) Carlyle is a capable NHL coach with a good system in place and a lack of personnel to execute.

I'm not saying who's right and who's wrong... but it isn't so simple. Lindy Ruff wasn't coach in Buffalo for a decade without going through some rough patches and seasons.

Did Paul Maclean go from a Jack Adams winner to incompetent idiot in a matter of months?

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01-09-2014, 11:55 PM
  #13
The Thin White Duke
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Originally Posted by topched View Post
There are more options though... things aren't so black and white.

3) Carlyle has control of the locker room, the players are slumping majorly, all at the same time (this happens in all pro sports)

4) Carlyle is a capable NHL coach with a good system in place and a lack of personnel to execute.

I'm not saying who's right and who's wrong... but it isn't so simple. Lindy Ruff wasn't coach in Buffalo for a decade without going through some rough patches and seasons.

Did Paul Maclean go from a Jack Adams winner to incompetent idiot in a matter of months?
How long is a slump? 2 games? 5 games? Cause we're sitting at 20+ right now. That's not a slump, that's a quarter of the season. Could be more if Reimer/Bernier weren't bailing us out for the first few months.

Again, if he's a good coach but doesn't fit our roster, he needs to go. We can't trade our big pieces at a loss just to get Carlyle the tools he needs. Do we blow it up again next coach to get him the new tools HE needs?

I don't think Ruff is really relevant as he had periods of sustained success to justify waiting out his rough patches. Carlyle has ~30 games of sustained success last season and maybe 10 this season. Much thinner ice.

As for Maclean, both of his goalies put up absolutely insane performances last season, similar to Bernier/Reimer when we were playing "well" at the beginning of this season. He was able to out-grind teams with a roster of rookies that were desperate to prove themselves and hungry for contracts. For 48 games mind you.

Carlyle could do well with St Louis's team or maybe LA or Boston. We are not even close to those teams. He's not a bad guy, but he's a bad fit in TO.

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01-10-2014, 12:00 AM
  #14
topched
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Originally Posted by The Thin White Duke View Post
How long is a slump? 2 games? 5 games? Cause we're sitting at 20+ right now. That's not a slump, that's a quarter of the season. Could be more if Reimer/Bernier weren't bailing us out for the first few months.

Again, if he's a good coach but doesn't fit our roster, he needs to go. We can't trade our big pieces at a loss just to get Carlyle the tools he needs. Do we blow it up again next coach to get him the new tools HE needs?

I don't think Ruff is really relevant as he had periods of sustained success to justify waiting out his rough patches. Carlyle has ~30 games of sustained success last season and maybe 10 this season. Much thinner ice.

As for Maclean, both of his goalies put up absolutely insane performances last season, similar to Bernier/Reimer when we were playing "well" at the beginning of this season. He was able to out-grind teams with a roster of rookies that were desperate to prove themselves and hungry for contracts. For 48 games mind you.

Carlyle could do well with St Louis's team or maybe LA or Boston. We are not even close to those teams. He's not a bad guy, but he's a bad fit in TO.
You're just proving my point though. A coach is only as good as his players.

You're right that Randy could do well in St Louis La or Boston.

Funny how Hitchcock couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag in Columbus, and all of a sudden he's fantastic in St Louis.

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01-10-2014, 12:08 AM
  #15
The Thin White Duke
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You're just proving my point though. A coach is only as good as his players.

You're right that Randy could do well in St Louis La or Boston.

Funny how Hitchcock couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag in Columbus, and all of a sudden he's fantastic in St Louis.
We have good players is the problem, they just don't play Carlyle hockey. Carlyle can only play one style of hockey, he can't adapt to a speedy offensive team. It's easier to replace him than it is to replace the whole team. It's very clear that what he's doing isn't working and shows no signs of getting better, and this team is on a pretty short timer to make something happen.

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01-10-2014, 12:11 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by The Thin White Duke View Post
We have good players is the problem, they just don't play Carlyle hockey. Carlyle can only play one style of hockey, he can't adapt to a speedy offensive team. It's easier to replace him than it is to replace the whole team. It's very clear that what he's doing isn't working and shows no signs of getting better, and this team is on a pretty short timer to make something happen.
But Wilson was supposed to be a speedy offensive guy, who thrived with that style in San Jose... and came here, with a similar lineup and couldn't get results.

So leads back to my original blanket statement... when have we collectively had enough blaming folks off the ice and start blaming the ones on it?

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01-10-2014, 12:14 AM
  #17
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To me it looks like Anaheim had good players the last few years? So if Carlye was such a good coach and had good systems why isn't he still the coach?

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01-10-2014, 12:17 AM
  #18
The Thin White Duke
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Originally Posted by topched View Post
But Wilson was supposed to be a speedy offensive guy, who thrived with that style in San Jose... and came here, with a similar lineup and couldn't get results.

So leads back to my original blanket statement... when have we collectively had enough blaming folks off the ice and start blaming the ones on it?
Wilson had a defense with Phaneuf, Komisarek, Beauchemin and Schenn. Try to tell me that's not more of a Carlyle defense.

We tried to adjust the team to Wilson's preferences, fired Wilson, and left Carlyle with a Wilson-flavored team to work with. Why would you want to leave a Carlyle-flavored team for the next coach to work with? It's the exact same mistake. Not to mention that San Jose was infinitely more skilled than us, yet consistently got bounced from the playoffs. Wilson played a style that fits our current strengths better, but that doesn't mean he's a good coach.

If you want to blame the guys on the ice, then you better be prepared for a complete tear-down of the team. There's no non-major piece that you can tweak and fix things. The core of this team is built around a run-and-gun game. In an ideal world, I'd love to tear that down and start over properly, but do you really see Rogers/Bell/Liewike accepting another 3+ year rebuild after 9 years of failure?

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01-10-2014, 12:18 AM
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To me it looks like Anaheim had good players the last few years? So if Carlye was such a good coach and had good systems why isn't he still the coach?
He won a cup. But it is still very perplexing indeed. Wins cup, falls out of favor there. Gets leafs into playoffs, sucks the next year. This is essentially the same roster from last year; "the core" so to speak remains intact.

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01-10-2014, 12:19 AM
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01-10-2014, 12:20 AM
  #21
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I think it's about time we give up on the season and this team, God knows the team gave up months ago.

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01-10-2014, 12:20 AM
  #22
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01-10-2014, 12:26 AM
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01-10-2014, 12:27 AM
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The Thin White Duke
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As long as Lupul can afford his tailored custom suits, who cares about winning games?

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01-10-2014, 12:29 AM
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As long as Lupul can afford his tailored custom suits, who cares about winning games?
I thought they were given to him for the "Lupul Style" promotion. Toronto is a tough place to play. Everything is free for these guys including their.....

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