HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

What were the main complaints about Mason Raymond in VAN?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-11-2014, 10:59 AM
  #1
TieClark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,115
vCash: 500
What were the main complaints about Mason Raymond in VAN?

As a Leaf fan who's not a fan of Raymond, I'm curious what the common complaints about Raymond were while he played in Vancouver. It's interesting to see if we see the same things in his game

TieClark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:00 AM
  #2
How Ya Drouin
12/08/13 GM GamesRIP
 
How Ya Drouin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,243
vCash: 500
He was a perimeter player who was very streaky. Very frustrating to see a very very good player sometimes and a very poor player other times. He also had a particularly annoying habit off falling down after gaining the zone.

How Ya Drouin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:01 AM
  #3
tc23
#StopSbieksa2015
 
tc23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,713
vCash: 77
The usual Mason Raymond complaints are that he's a perimeter player, streaky, non-engaging, soft, falls down a lot (usually right after gaining the zone and losing the puck because of this), inconsistent, no-show in the playoffs.

tc23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:02 AM
  #4
JuniorNelson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: E.Vancouver
Country: Australia-Aboriginal
Posts: 5,271
vCash: 50
He established a contract figure that he wasn't earning on the ice.

JuniorNelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:06 AM
  #5
tc23
#StopSbieksa2015
 
tc23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,713
vCash: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by How Ya Drouin View Post
He was a perimeter player who was very streaky. Very frustrating to see a very very good player sometimes and a very poor player other times. He also had a particularly annoying habit off falling down after gaining the zone.
It still felt weird watching #21 in blue cycling and standing in front of the net in last night's game.

tc23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:06 AM
  #6
stuffradio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,781
vCash: 75
He fell down too much, sometimes made mistakes by trying to body check a bigger player who just proceeded to skate by him, and he didn't always score.

stuffradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:07 AM
  #7
stuffradio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,781
vCash: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by tc23 View Post
It still felt weird watching #21 in blue cycling and standing in front of the net in last night's game.
His number is 12 in Toronto...

stuffradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:07 AM
  #8
Vankiller Whale
Win it for AV
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,306
vCash: 1675
He was a perimeter player who fell down a lot.

However I think most people here gave him more grief than he deserved.

Vankiller Whale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:08 AM
  #9
Chairman Maouth
Global Moderator
 
Chairman Maouth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fire Lake
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,519
vCash: 20000
Great guy - all the tools, but often didn't put them all together. Also performed poorly in the playoffs.

__________________
50 million? You have got to be ******** me! -- Todd McLellan
Chairman Maouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:09 AM
  #10
tc23
#StopSbieksa2015
 
tc23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,713
vCash: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuffradio View Post
His number is 12 in Toronto...
Raymond wore 21 in Vancouver. Dalpe wears 21 now and was cycling w/ the Twins and scored the goal in front of the net. That's what I was alluding to.

tc23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:10 AM
  #11
KDizzle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bay Area
Country: Japan
Posts: 8,328
vCash: 500
He would take the puck through the neutral zone, head down, flip it past the defender, skate around the defender and find himself with the puck in the corner where he would proceed to fall down and lose the puck.

Rinse, repeat.

That said, his stick handling was really polished, but without any size and limited hockey IQ, he could only do so much.

KDizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:10 AM
  #12
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,174
vCash: 500
Raymond's issues in VAN amount of, ultimately, consistency. He could score, but not over a 20+ games or so. I will say that he turned around his defensive play by the end of his time here and that was nice to see.

Mizral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:16 AM
  #13
stuffradio
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,781
vCash: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by tc23 View Post
Raymond wore 21 in Vancouver. Dalpe wears 21 now and was cycling w/ the Twins and scored the goal in front of the net. That's what I was alluding to.
It went right over my head.

stuffradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:30 AM
  #14
vadim sharifijanov
Rrbata
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,168
vCash: 500
on top of everything else posted above, he also lacked the hockey sense to pass the puck effectively. which of course led to him skating the puck toward the side boards or corner when angled there by defenders, then falling over.

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:36 AM
  #15
Keke Mortsons helmet
Registered User
 
Keke Mortsons helmet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Horseshoe Bay BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 660
vCash: 500
He's a speedy-but-soft, streaky scorer that when not scoring can't really contribute in other ways. A classic tweener, not enough offensive production for a top six role, lacking the size and grit for a true bottom six fit. He's the kind of player that will do for now-until something better comes along.Strange that he lasted here as long as he did-expect him to bounce around from team to team.

Keke Mortsons helmet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:48 AM
  #16
Ernie
Registered User
 
Ernie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,346
vCash: 500
He was a useful player at gaining puck possession. Unfortunately, he'd make a lot of low percentage plays with the puck on his stick.

During his time here, I always thought that he was trying to play a style of game that he didn't quite have the talent for. He'd have been a great 3rd line winger if he could focus on getting pucks on net. Even with his deficiencies, though, he's still a pretty good 3rd line winger, and I'd gladly have him on my team at $1m. I start not liking him so much at $2m.

Ernie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 11:59 AM
  #17
ddawg1950
Registered User
 
ddawg1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,037
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
As a Leaf fan who's not a fan of Raymond, I'm curious what the common complaints about Raymond were while he played in Vancouver. It's interesting to see if we see the same things in his game
And along with all that, wait until you see him in the playoffs.

...oh right.

Sorry.

ddawg1950 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 12:00 PM
  #18
Wisp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,548
vCash: 500
Honestly, I don't think it was coincidental that he fell out of favour and became less effective around when the west started getting bigger and more physical.

He got more grief than he deserved.

Wisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 12:21 PM
  #19
MS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 14,845
vCash: 500
Raymond's biggest problem here was that he scored 25 goals and 53 points in a year where he was playing on Kesler's line and being used as the main shooting option on the #2 PP unit.

People then expected him to duplicate those numbers on a deeper team where he was seeing mainly 3rd line icetime and no PP time. His ES numbers were very consistent (aside from a stretch in the year where he was coming off a broken back) but he was never going to match his previous highs without the 18 PP points he scored that year.

So he was branded a failure, and all people seemed to notice was that he fell down sometimes. Or missed good scoring chances. Became a situation where nobody would notice if a guy like Chris Higgins had an invisible game with 0 SOG but people would be whaling on Raymond as garbage in a game where he had 5 SOG and was all over the ice because he fell down twice and couldn't finish.

He's a quality 2nd/3rd line tweener who can score 35-45 points while playing a good defensive game. Good depth player to have in your top 9. If you expect him to score 60 points, you're going to be disappointed.

MS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 12:21 PM
  #20
TieClark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawg1950 View Post
And along with all that, wait until you see him in the playoffs.

...oh right.

Sorry.
We'll be there

TieClark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 12:23 PM
  #21
TieClark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
Raymond's biggest problem here was that he scored 25 goals and 53 points in a year where he was playing on Kesler's line and being used as the main shooting option on the #2 PP unit.

People then expected him to duplicate those numbers on a deeper team where he was seeing mainly 3rd line icetime and no PP time. His ES numbers were very consistent (aside from a stretch in the year where he was coming off a broken back) but he was never going to match his previous highs without the 18 PP points he scored that year.

So he was branded a failure, and all people seemed to notice was that he fell down sometimes. Or missed good scoring chances. Became a situation where nobody would notice if a guy like Chris Higgins had an invisible game with 0 SOG but people would be whaling on Raymond as garbage in a game where he had 5 SOG and was all over the ice because he fell down twice and couldn't finish.

He's a quality 2nd/3rd line tweener who can score 35-45 points while playing a good defensive game. Good depth player to have in your top 9. If you expect him to score 60 points, you're going to be disappointed.
I heard this during the off-season but have seen nothing of the sort in Toronto.

TieClark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 12:27 PM
  #22
dave babych returns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
I heard this during the off-season but have seen nothing of the sort in Toronto.
Perhaps he's being asked to do other things in Toronto but what you could never deny about him in Vancouver is that even if he is not a big gritty player like we all see when we imagine a strong defensive forward he is conscientious and that and his mobility allows him to limit chances against.

But maybe on a.. uhh no offense here but "less good"... defensive team that isn't enough to stop the bleeding.

dave babych returns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 12:31 PM
  #23
ddawg1950
Registered User
 
ddawg1950's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,037
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
We'll be there
Gotta support the team.

ddawg1950 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 12:31 PM
  #24
Wolfhard
Registered User
 
Wolfhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 681
vCash: 500
Mason Raymond enters the zone on the left side.
Chips the puck off the boards to beat the defender wide. Might fall down.
If he doesn't, he regains the puck and lofts a shot on goal. Maybe a muffin to the chest. Maybe high and wide, where the puck leaves the zone again.
If there was no chance for a shot, he'll continue to the corner. Might fall down.
If he didn't fall, he'll continue behind the net.
If no defender is present, he'll circle the net for the muffin shot to the chest or high/wide shot that then leaves the zone.
If a defender is present, he'll skate back up the right side boards looking for help. May or may not skate the puck back out of the zone, or attempt a wild muffin shot nowhere near the net. Or fall down.

Slight exaggeration, yes. But not completely! Mason Raymond is where plays go to die, and once you start paying attention to his tendencies, it will drive you crazy.

Though he is good for 6-10 games of solid, aggressive play, where he will get 40% of his points, maybe twice a year. It'll show you what he's capable of, and tease you into wanting to keep him around, on the blind hope that one day he'll put it all together and maintain that play. The Canucks finally gave up on that hope.

Wolfhard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2014, 12:47 PM
  #25
B-rock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,105
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfhard View Post
Mason Raymond enters the zone on the left side.
Chips the puck off the boards to beat the defender wide. Might fall down.
If he doesn't, he regains the puck and lofts a shot on goal. Maybe a muffin to the chest. Maybe high and wide, where the puck leaves the zone again.
If there was no chance for a shot, he'll continue to the corner. Might fall down.
If he didn't fall, he'll continue behind the net.
If no defender is present, he'll circle the net for the muffin shot to the chest or high/wide shot that then leaves the zone.
If a defender is present, he'll skate back up the right side boards looking for help. May or may not skate the puck back out of the zone, or attempt a wild muffin shot nowhere near the net. Or fall down.

Slight exaggeration, yes. But not completely! Mason Raymond is where plays go to die, and once you start paying attention to his tendencies, it will drive you crazy.

Though he is good for 6-10 games of solid, aggressive play, where he will get 40% of his points, maybe twice a year. It'll show you what he's capable of, and tease you into wanting to keep him around, on the blind hope that one day he'll put it all together and maintain that play. The Canucks finally gave up on that hope.
You nailed it. Raymond is where plays go to die.

MS mentioned that Raymond was criticized unfairly because he had one good year. I disagree. Raymond was criticized because he would add nothing to his line except for once every 7 or 8 games. Even if Higgins has a bad game, they don't go on for almost 10 games, and you know that Higgins will still be winning battles in the corner. Raymond is completely and absolutely inept at winning any kind of board battle.

For all his speed, he doesn't know how to utilize it. You could count on one hand the amount of breakaways he had here. For all of his stick handling ability, he doesn't know how to get himself to an open spot for a shot on net. He dangles around with the puck on his stick a step or 2 too long, resulting in missing the pass or play that was open for a moment. I've never seen a player deke and juke himself out of the offensive zone with the puck on his stick killing the Zone pressure on repeated occasions like Raymond would sometimes do.

He's an infuriating player to have on your team because he seems to have all of the tools necessary to be a good player (except size) but he can't put them all together. His hockey sense is limited.

Raymond is where plays go to die.

(One notable point is that Raymond would always put together his best games against Cowtown, usually in the Saddledome. Burke would be wise to pick him up for a cheap contract and see what he could do playing for his hometown team a la Santorelli)

B-rock is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:08 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.