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Old
01-14-2014, 08:52 AM
  #276
geehaad
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
I'll state my first beef ever with muller tonight. Hottest scorer in the NHL and you bump him off the first line? For trusty in his first game back? Skinner should be the featured player on this team, not sitting on the third line, he's scored his way out of that position. 2-0 game and he doesn't change the plan till 3:30 left in the game?

Bad Muller.
I noted this as well, and then thought maybe it was because Skinner expressed a desire to remain a center once EStaal returned. Then I noticed that Lindholm was that line's center. Head-scratcher.

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01-14-2014, 09:14 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
I noted this as well, and then thought maybe it was because Skinner expressed a desire to remain a center once EStaal returned. Then I noticed that Lindholm was that line's center. Head-scratcher.
The only thing I can think of that makes any kind of sense at all is that Staal and Tlusty were rusty and a step behind their line mates so they stuck them together with Semin who wasn't moving his feet at all anyway.

That's digging deep. I thought it was mindless too.

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01-14-2014, 09:20 AM
  #278
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by faulkingdynamic View Post
Khudobin is fine, the d is fine, the forward group is absolute horsesh*t.
Khudobin has actually been more than fine, he's been outstanding. He has yet to have a game I would characterize as a weak performance, and you can really see the confidence he brings to the table. He's out there communicating, helping the D behind the net, making his saves with authority. I don't see a lot of downside in his game right now.

I was not on the Justin Peters love train, and I have a fair amount of patience with Ward. But if Khudobin is really this legit, we might have to start thinking about our options.

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01-14-2014, 09:26 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Discipline Daddy View Post
I didn't think we played as horribly as almost all of you do, though of course we didn't play well. Khudobin was really solid and Ramo was too, but this game wasn't at all about goaltending. I'm surprised no one has talked about Calgary's defense. I have to give them credit, their back end played really solidly tonight. They were insanely active and quick all night, chipping the puck out constantly. To me, this was more a game of their system flat out worked better than ours tonight. They had a slight edge in chances and capitalized, and they forced us to very little. They were monsters in getting in our passing and shooting lanes, moreso than almost every other team we've played against. Seriously, I was impressed.
I do my best to not overreact to bad games and look for the good that we did, but this game was pure ****. This game and the first period against MTL were easily some of the worst hockey I've ever seen played by Carolina (or any team, for that matter).

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Originally Posted by Sasha Cares View Post
Ruutu and Bowman need ****ing waiving... worthless, completely... Nash is also worthless... so much dead weight on this team
Why anyone thinks 3rd and 4th liners are our problem is beyond me. You want to talk about dead weight, talk about the "stars" that take not just shifts off, but entire ****ing games.

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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Games like this make me really wonder whether it was a good idea to go with a first-time coach for this roster. Even aside from the fact that we are struggling to stick inside the playoff bracket, it just seems so far-fetched that this group could win a 7-game series against a seasoned team with experienced coaches.
Agreed. I think as this season has progressed, Muller has shown his inexperience more and more. As much as I think he's going to be a great coach, it bothers me that we won't get to see it.

I also can't believe Murphy didn't bury that shot. If you are playing in the NHL, you put that in every time. Everyone was thinking Skinner was shooting there, makes a solid pass and Murphy LaRose's it. Not to excuse the rest of the **** effort and play, but if he makes that, we could have been walking away with 2.


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Old
01-14-2014, 09:33 AM
  #280
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There is no jam in our coach. Devastating loss, i feel sick, no sleep all night. No words for the decision to play Skinner on the third line. Stupid coach.

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01-14-2014, 09:43 AM
  #281
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After watching the last two games, days off and me having tickets for Saturday..go ahead and count on the Panthers shutting us out 4-0 too.

"We came out flat."

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01-14-2014, 10:04 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by golfpro827 View Post
You realize he didn't play Friday, don't you?
You do realize Sergei Bobrovsky is the reigning Vezina winner, don't you? That was a solid game that bob played lights out in.

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01-14-2014, 10:17 AM
  #283
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I guess the answer is to replace the coach every 3 years, then? They come out with better jump for like half a season, and sometimes make the playoffs. And when that stops working, pack your bags.

Or maybe strip Eric's leadership letter and give it to...hm, that's a tough one too. But someone else, anyone else, would make a better captain so they can get back to making the playoffs every year like they did under Brind'Amour and Francis and...oh

No, I think the fault lies at Rutherford's feet. While you guys have clowned him for his moves, I really don't think his ability to build a team is that bad. If the Staals, Semin, Skinner, et al, are playing the way they're capable, this team has talent. At least enough to consistently grab a low seed in the Eastern Conference, if not outright challenge for the division in some years. Especially when they were in the Southeast.

The problem with JR lies in his ability to hold anyone accountable for anything. His threats are almost always idle and take months to come to fruition, if they ever do. And by threats, I don't mean trading Kevin Westgarth to make a statement. I don't mean holding on to Tim Gleason several years past his expiration date before finally moving him for another problem contract to make a statement. I don't mean begging someone to take Jussi Jokinen or things like that.

And if you do get shipped off to make a statement, there's a high probability you'll be brought back anyway.

The country club atmosphere appears to be very real, and I hold JR accountable for it. Players know they'll get paid regardless, and that can sometimes trump the desire to win. There's a real lack in motivation.

Maybe Muller isn't the right coach to work under JR and make up for his lack of accountability, but then neither were Laviolette nor Maurice, and they take completely different kinds of approaches. Until accountability is actually a word with meaning in Carolina, we're likely to suffer the same consistently inconsistent team, unless lightning were to be caught in a bottle again.

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01-14-2014, 11:08 AM
  #284
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Please continue thinking adding a top 30 player in the world to a lineup hurts.

If you think that, let me know. I've got a sweet $1 bill I'd like to sell you for $5.

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01-14-2014, 11:52 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
I'll state my first beef ever with muller tonight. Hottest scorer in the NHL and you bump him off the first line? For trusty in his first game back? Skinner should be the featured player on this team, not sitting on the third line, he's scored his way out of that position. 2-0 game and he doesn't change the plan till 3:30 left in the game?

Bad Muller.
Skinner still played 17:46 at even strength last night, his most since Dec 20 vs the Caps. Maybe they thought moving him around some would get him better matchups? The way Eric and Semin looked last night, I'm not convinced he would have been a lot better off playing with them.

Regardless of lines, I'd say the real problem is that we iced 5 forwards with higher salaries/cap hits than Calgary's highest-paid forward in the lineup and were outshot and outchanced despite trailing for much of the game. Calgary is 3rd-worst in the league in goals against and hadn't shut anyone out in almost 2 years.

Not sure to what extent Muller is to blame, but this team does seem to have a lot of chronic concerns. Guys like Semin and Murphy can look like the best puckhandlers on the team one minute, and the next minute commit completely unforced turnovers. Murphy is dazzling as a puck mover, but for whatever reason this hasn't translated to much in the way of points for an "offensive defenseman" with plenty of powerplay time and offensive zone starts. He is young, but we need him to improve significantly over the next couple of years. Our forecheckers have decent speed but are too weak along the boards, with the exception of Jordan. And someone needs to tell Eric that he's better off holding onto the puck than making blind passes to the other team.

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01-14-2014, 01:33 PM
  #286
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The quest for Ekblad continues

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Old
01-14-2014, 01:34 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by golfpro827 View Post
Please continue thinking adding a top 30 player in the world to a lineup hurts.

If you think that, let me know. I've got a sweet $1 bill I'd like to sell you for $5.
The problem with this statement is that Eric Staal is only a top 30 player in this league during the playoffs (or on the rare occasion he decides to bring his "A" game). Neither scenario is happening enough.

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Old
01-14-2014, 01:57 PM
  #288
Finlandia WOAT
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Originally Posted by RodTheBawd View Post



Why anyone thinks 3rd and 4th liners are our problem is beyond me. You want to talk about dead weight, talk about the "stars" that take not just shifts off, but entire ****ing games.

Because over an 82 game season, your "star" players are going to have off nights. The players that can keep up a consistent level of play are about as rare as a 5'5 hockey player. And even beyond off nights, there are going to be nights where the other team will simply outplay you, for whatever reason.

If you're (not you singularly, just in general) expecting the same effort level from everyone 100% of the time, you should probably watch more NHL hockey.

Building off of that, if you have depth that can actually contribute (beyond the odd multi-goal Jiri Tlusty game and whenever Skinner is bumped to the 3rd line), then it's suddenly not that big of a deal that your star players are having an off night.

It's also much easier to replace someone that contributes at the level of Riley Nash, Drayson Bowman or Tuomo Ruutu than someone who contributes at the level of Eric Staal (you know, the guy who is leading the team in points right now).

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Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post


The problem with JR lies in his ability to hold anyone accountable for anything. His threats are almost always idle and take months to come to fruition, if they ever do. And by threats, I don't mean trading Kevin Westgarth to make a statement. I don't mean holding on to Tim Gleason several years past his expiration date before finally moving him for another problem contract to make a statement. I don't mean begging someone to take Jussi Jokinen or things like that.
To JR's credit, I've heard comments from both Kirk, some players and JR himself that indicate that Westgarth was very well liked in the room.

I know he was pretty much hated on these boards because he was almost completely useless and was the poster child for wanton nepotism, but I doubt anyone spent so much as an hour in his presence.

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01-14-2014, 03:54 PM
  #289
jstaal
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Canes

If all the other Canes players had the heart of Gerbe, we are in a playoff position..

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01-14-2014, 04:09 PM
  #290
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Staal is tied for the team lead in points with Skinner, despite playing in 8 more games. I do get what you are saying though, and I agree- this team is going nowhere longterm without Staal in the driver's seat. But what I'm saying is, toughness/iron man streaks/whatever be damned, if he isn't ready to play he isn't ready to play. Whether it's the knee injury from the offseason or whatever is going on with his groin lately, playing through pain isn't inspirational if you're playing poorly.

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01-14-2014, 04:14 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
To JR's credit, I've heard comments from both Kirk, some players and JR himself that indicate that Westgarth was very well liked in the room.

I know he was pretty much hated on these boards because he was almost completely useless and was the poster child for wanton nepotism, but I doubt anyone spent so much as an hour in his presence.
I don't doubt that he was, but at the end of the day, he was still a sparingly used player.

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01-14-2014, 04:21 PM
  #292
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I don't doubt that he was, but at the end of the day, he was still a sparingly used player.
So we should just trade anyone and everyone useful just for the hell of it?

Trading Westgarth got us little tangible, unless Greg Nemisz proves otherwise, for on ice additions. But multiple people commented on the effect that it had on the locker room. That a popular guy who was well connected to the area would get traded for nothing.

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01-14-2014, 09:34 PM
  #293
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
So we should just trade anyone and everyone useful just for the hell of it?

Trading Westgarth got us little tangible, unless Greg Nemisz proves otherwise, for on ice additions. But multiple people commented on the effect that it had on the locker room. That a popular guy who was well connected to the area would get traded for nothing.
I'm not following you. Are you saying that the Canes should have kept him because he was a "good locker room guy?"

He's a terrible hockey player, was scratched more often than not, and when he played he barely got any minutes. And even if he was a good locker room guy, it didn't translate to wins so who cares if he was a popular guy?

Trading for him in the first place was a mistake. Getting rid of him for nothing was making the best of a bad situation and gets his salary and roster spot off the books. As I think Sheriff Bart said a few years back. Intangibles are nice, but the Canes need some guys with tangibles. Westgarth may have been a nice guy and a good locker room guy, but that wasn't translating to anything on the ice.

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01-14-2014, 09:41 PM
  #294
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I'm not following you. Are you saying that the Canes should have kept him because he was a "good locker room guy?"
No; I'm glad they traded him.

The poster to whom I responded said that JR made idle threats about a "shakeup" and mentioned Westgarth. I pointed out that both Muller and certain players mentioned (in post-game interviews of the Montreal game IIRC) that Westgarth was a character guy who was well liked and that the locker room received the statement (whatever it was) JR was trying to send.

As fans, all we really saw is how terrible Westgarth was if he was not out there fighting some other hack goon. As players, they actually interacted with him on a daily basis, and he at the least seemed quite well liked.

To us, trading Westgarth was a nothing deal...but several people closer to the locker room than I have commented otherwise. That's really all I'm pointing out.

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01-14-2014, 10:31 PM
  #295
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Popular or not, the guys in the room know who's good and who's not, who's useful and who's not. That's not really the shakeup I meant.

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01-15-2014, 02:24 PM
  #296
imayagainknowanson
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I must admit that most interesting thing from the game was Skinner on the PK.

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