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Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (Part XVIII)

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01-15-2014, 02:30 PM
  #101
truck
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Originally Posted by Turbofan View Post
On that note, can anyone think of any notable players who peaked in their production at an age > 28? > 30?
I am sure there are a few. Some have peaked later.

On average, players hit it around 25 though.

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01-15-2014, 02:34 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Turbofan View Post
On that note, can anyone think of any notable players who peaked in their production at an age > 28? > 30?
Alfredsson peaked at 33, Iginla at 30, St. Louis at 31.

EDIT: Pavelski is on pace for his best year this year at 29. Lidstrom at 35, Datsyuk at 31, Ray Whitney at 34. Doan at 31.


Last edited by Kyosama: 01-15-2014 at 02:46 PM.
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Old
01-15-2014, 02:36 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Turbofan View Post
On that note, can anyone think of any notable players who peaked in their production at an age > 28? > 30?
Sedins did (30). St. Louis did (31). Briere did (29). A few examples.

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01-15-2014, 02:42 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Turbofan View Post
On that note, can anyone think of any notable players who peaked in their production at an age > 28? > 30?
It's not common

...a couple of defensemen, off the top of my head - Chara and Lidstrom.

Forwards? a few guys...

St. Louis, Briere, Whitney, Marleau.

My sense is that a good number of players maintain a high level for some time into their 30's, depending on their style of play and commitment. This is more common for D. Players are in much better shape these days, overall.

Still, I tend to agree that the Jets should be looking to build around a younger core, not only for performance issues but also due to cap and contract circumstances.

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01-15-2014, 02:52 PM
  #105
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Goaltending dominoes falling. Dubnyk to Preds for Hendricks then Oilers turn around and give a 3rd rounder for Scrivens.

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01-15-2014, 02:58 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Kyosama View Post
Alfredsson peaked at 33, Iginla at 30, St. Louis at 31.

EDIT: Pavelski is on pace for his best year this year at 29. Lidstrom at 35, Datsyuk at 31, Ray Whitney at 34. Doan at 31.
Steen at 29 soon to be 30 is having a career year.

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01-15-2014, 03:05 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
I said if you view him as the player that needs to move. I think they are looking at moving one of Kane/Ladd/Wheeler and Bogo/Enstrom/Buff and I think they want to move forward with a different core being the "leaders".

Personally I wouldn't want Ladd to move but I can see why he would be valuable as a trading chip for certain teams.
Interesting Joe

Today Elliote Friedman was on the Rona Round table and he mentioned something that Dennis Beyak had also talked about the other day. They both said that Kevin and Craig were trying to move some key players before they fired Claude. That they wanted to shake up the core before they quit on the coach but it was (is) next to impossible to get a meaningful deal done mid season with the cap challenges. So now do we a assume a reset button gets hit and all bets are off because their hand was forced with a coaching change, or are they staying full speed ahead on player change? You would have to think that they would lean on Maurice’s opinion and take a bit of time to listen to offers while letting the coach add to the data bank on the talent no?

Friedman indicated that he believed once all teams were out of the playoffs and with the cap going up its believed that this summer will be catch up time for allot of teams


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Old
01-15-2014, 03:14 PM
  #108
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ps241 - I think the players got a reprieve, but only temporarily. One of the advantages to picking up a veteran coach that has NO (or extremely few) former ties to the Org and players is that he comes in with a completely unbiased opinion.

I see the time between now and the trade deadline as an extended audition for the players.

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01-15-2014, 03:21 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Interesting Joe

Today Elliote Friedman was on the Rona Round table and he mentioned something that Dennis Beyak had also talked about the other day. They both said that Kevin and Craig were trying to move some key players before they fired Claude. That they wanted to shake up the core before they quit on the coach but it was (is) next to impossible to get a meaningful deal done mid season with the cap challenges. So now do we a assume a reset button gets hit and all bets are off because their hand was forced with a coaching change, or are they staying full speed ahead on player change? You would have to think that they would lean on Maurice’s opinion and take a bit of time to listen to offers while letting the coach add to the data bank on the talent no?

Friedman indicated that he believed once all teams were out of the playoffs and with the cap going up its believed that this summer will be catch up time for allot of teams
I have stated for awhile now that it is almost impossible to get a big deal done because of the cap. The Jets wanted to shake up the core here but they will wait until the summer to do so.

Right now I believe Maurice is going to decide the fates of a few players and he will shape this team going forward. I believe that 1 or 2 of those players will be moved before/at/after the draft.

They really want to add more prospect talent going forward and they really believe in their amateur and pro scouting departments.

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01-15-2014, 03:23 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
ps241 - I think the players got a reprieve, but only temporarily. One of the advantages to picking up a veteran coach that has NO (or extremely few) former ties to the Org and players is that he comes in with a completely unbiased opinion.

I see the time between now and the trade deadline as an extended audition for the players.
That is how I see it as well.

My guess is that Kevin would have had to have had a candid conversation with Paul to discuss his possible roster direction in the short term (up to the end of the season). Also Kevin appears to have put in some ground work on deals and who knows what might come back his way even if he plans to not press the issue and not try to drive the deals? Yea reprieve is probably the right word and time to see how some of the boys do with the new coach. Some of the UFA guys might get shopped no matter what but either way maybe some guys are getting a second life.

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01-15-2014, 03:23 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
I see the time between now and the trade deadline as an extended audition for the players.
That's the feeling I got from yesterday's practice. It felt like training camp. Players aren't fighting for jobs, but roles and ice time are all up for grabs. Buff and Pardy even got pretty physical once with sticks up high. Buff gave Pardy a "look" that could kill. It turned into a smile eventually but I wasn't sure what was gonna happen a the time.

We'll see if the team continues to look rejuvenated as we go forward, but it makes me wish we'd changed coaches in November.

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01-15-2014, 03:26 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
I have stated for awhile now that it is almost impossible to get a big deal done because of the cap. The Jets wanted to shake up the core here but they will wait until the summer to do so.

Right now I believe Maurice is going to decide the fates of a few players and he will shape this team going forward. I believe that 1 or 2 of those players will be moved before/at/after the draft.

They really want to add more prospect talent going forward and they really believe in their amateur and pro scouting departments.
At the deadline even teams right against the cap have room to add 5-7 million dollar players. And with the cap going up a minimum of 7 million in the off-season, teams will be able to take on contracts at the deadline. You will get better prices for the players if you are looking for futures at the deadline, if they want to trade for futures better make it then.

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01-15-2014, 03:29 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
That's the feeling I got from yesterday's practice. It felt like training camp. Players aren't fighting for jobs, but roles and ice time are all up for grabs. Buff and Pardy even got pretty physical once with sticks up high. Buff gave Pardy a "look" that could kill. It turned into a smile eventually but I wasn't sure what was gonna happen a the time.

We'll see if the team continues to look rejuvenated as we go forward, but it makes me wish we'd changed coaches in November.
Buff would be a guy I would have next to no interest in having a tussle with

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01-15-2014, 03:37 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
That's the feeling I got from yesterday's practice. It felt like training camp. Players aren't fighting for jobs, but roles and ice time are all up for grabs. Buff and Pardy even got pretty physical once with sticks up high. Buff gave Pardy a "look" that could kill. It turned into a smile eventually but I wasn't sure what was gonna happen a the time.

We'll see if the team continues to look rejuvenated as we go forward, but it makes me wish we'd changed coaches in November.
Gotta wonder if Buff was actually mad or just playing it up. He seems like the type to fake mad for fun.

I know the media likes to play up the locker room cancer thing, but:
  • Teammates seem to like him
  • Tallon and Bowman both think he is very good in the room
  • He wore an "A" under Craig Ramsay
  • He wore an "A" under Claude Noel
  • PoMo loved how he handled being moved to forward

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01-15-2014, 03:38 PM
  #115
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Let me check and see...

2010-11: 59 points
2011-12: 50 points
2012-13: 46 points in 48 games (on pace for 79 points)
2013-14: on pace for 51 points.

Yes indeed, I am implying that Ladd is a consistent 50-60 point producer at this stage of his career.
I agree if using the last 2-3 years. Didn't take that into account the first time.
That being said, I still think picking up a great prospect and another 1st round pick, while unloading salary would be good (provided we buyout Bickell). Sucks that Ladd would be gone but we will only get quality back if we give something up. At this point, I think Ladd is expendable.

Quote:
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Alfredsson peaked at 33, Iginla at 30, St. Louis at 31.
Not discrediting anything he has done, but Alfredsson had a nice thing going with Spezza and Heatley.

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01-15-2014, 03:44 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
I have stated for awhile now that it is almost impossible to get a big deal done because of the cap. The Jets wanted to shake up the core here but they will wait until the summer to do so.

Right now I believe Maurice is going to decide the fates of a few players and he will shape this team going forward. I believe that 1 or 2 of those players will be moved before/at/after the draft. They really want to add more prospect talent going forward and they really believe in their amateur and pro scouting departments.
Well Holden and a few others have been beating this drum for a long time now and I sense that is the “direction” Chevy will go in the off season if not sooner. Maurice will have input but when the music stops there are going to be a couple of less chairs than there are older core players and Paul won't stop it he he will probably just have input on his preferences

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01-15-2014, 03:45 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
At the deadline even teams right against the cap have room to add 5-7 million dollar players. And with the cap going up a minimum of 7 million in the off-season, teams will be able to take on contracts at the deadline. You will get better prices for the players if you are looking for futures at the deadline, if they want to trade for futures better make it then.
That may very well what ends up happening.

Right now deals are hard to come by but in a few months who knows

I kind of look at the Jets and think that Columbus faced a similar situation. They ended up moving out

Rick Nash,Jeff Carter,Steven Delisle

for

Brandon Dubinsky,Artem Anisimov,Jack Johnson,Tim Erixon, Kerby Rychel and Marko Dano

Has it worked out for them? Not yet but I guess you won't know till Rychel and Dano get there.

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01-15-2014, 03:51 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
Well Holden and a few others have been beating this drum for a long time now and I sense that is the “direction” Chevy will go in the off season if not sooner. Maurice will have input but when the music stops there are going to be a couple of less chairs than there are older core players and Paul won't stop it he he will probably just have input on his preferences
People spent a lot of time calling me dumb and / or negative for suggesting this too. Same goes for Pav sucking and the coaching change.

Related:

I am dumb, but I am not negative.

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01-15-2014, 03:52 PM
  #119
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People spent a lot of time calling me dumb and / or negative for suggesting this too. Same goes for Pav sucking and the coaching change.

Related:

I am dumb, but I am not negative.
Hey thats the opposite of me. I'm negative but i'm not dumb.

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01-15-2014, 04:02 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
People spent a lot of time calling me dumb and / or negative for suggesting this too. Same goes for Pav sucking and the coaching change.

Related:

I am dumb, but I am not negative.
When it came to Pavs I have been on the right side of that challenge since day 1. When it came to the older core I was wrong, I wanted my Cake and to eat it too but then this season happen and I have come full circle for two reasons.

#1 Our young guys appear to have the chops.

#2 It became REALLY apparent to me that we are not going to get it done with our current mix in the West.

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01-15-2014, 04:07 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
When it came to Pavs I have been on the right side of that challenge since day 1. When it came to the older core I was wrong, I wanted my Cake and to eat it too but then this season happen and I have come full circle for two reasons.

#1 Our young guys appear to have the chops.

#2 It became REALLY apparent to me that we are not going to get it done with our current mix in the West.
I don't see it as a mix issue so much as a matter of loading up on younger talent.

Need to turn a few now players into multiple future players and fill out the system.

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01-15-2014, 04:14 PM
  #122
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If Chevy is actually considering trading Pavs, where could he actually go? I can only think of the Islanders or the Flames as teams that might be interested in his services.

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01-15-2014, 04:35 PM
  #123
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If Chevy is actually considering trading Pavs, where could he actually go? I can only think of the Islanders or the Flames as teams that might be interested in his services.
Edmonton! They just added Scrivens, but both he and Bryz are pending UFAs.

Plus, a trade with Edmonton is likely a trade you win.

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01-15-2014, 04:37 PM
  #124
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Plus, a trade with Edmonton is likely a trade you win.
So long as you don't make the mistake of acquiring any of Edmonton's players.

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01-15-2014, 06:20 PM
  #125
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Interesting covo to say the least about trying to move core players, I wonder who was at the top and what return was, . Wouldn't you love to be a GM or at least the GM's wife

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