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Old
08-03-2005, 06:57 PM
  #1
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So, is everybody surprised that Sather

has stuck to his guns on rebuilding?
Looking at what Holik got in the new revised Capped NHL, his old uncapped salary doesn't appear to be all bad. Atlanta is going to have an old player on their hands by the end of the deal. I thought we would see the end of long contracts given to older players. Also, where is Edmonton getting all this dough from? I know the USD/CAD exchange rate is better, but that doesn't explain the sudden loosening of the purse strings. Same with Pittsburgh. I understand the Crosby effect, but they still, to go from low spender to top spender shows how truly disingenerous some of the teams were reagrding their willingness to spend. regardless of cap, you either have the moeny all you didn't.

Also when teams like Philly go over the cap, why would any team make a trade with them to help them out. I thought that there was some format in place to deal with this in the CBA. Anybody know what the new regulation is ?

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08-03-2005, 07:04 PM
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I'm not surprised the Rangers have stuck to their guns.

I'd also like to know what the penalty for the FLyers will be if they cant get under the cap.

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08-03-2005, 09:00 PM
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I'm not sold that he did. Sounds like Sather was turned down by more than a few guys. Leetch, Forsberg, Naslund and, perhaps, Neidermeyer.

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08-03-2005, 09:13 PM
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I think Sather may have thrown offers out on the table for these guys, but was not willing to overpay like the rangers have in the past. I'm fine with that.

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08-03-2005, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balej20
I think Sather may have thrown offers out on the table for these guys, but was not willing to overpay like the rangers have in the past. I'm fine with that.
First of all, you can make an argument that he overpaid for Malik.

Second, it's hard to overpay in this new environment. If indeed he offered Forsberg 6M, Forsberg signed for less. So Sather tried to overpay. In that case, he's learned nothing.

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08-03-2005, 09:21 PM
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Not surprised at all. I could tell the Organization was serious about this whole thing. Though next summer could be a different story......

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08-03-2005, 10:28 PM
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"First of all, you can make an argument that he overpaid for Malik.

Second, it's hard to overpay in this new environment. If indeed he offered Forsberg 6M, Forsberg signed for less. So Sather tried to overpay. In that case, he's learned nothing."


Was it a multi-year dear or 1 year for 6 million in which case I would not say that it was overpaying considering Forsberg signed a 2 year deal for 10.7 mil. If the Rangers are going to be so far under the cap, a one year deal would not hurt them. a 2-3 year deal at 6 per would be overpaying.

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08-03-2005, 10:50 PM
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Has he stuck to his guns, or have the "guns" decided to go elsewhere? There's already been a report (Alan Hahn, Newsday) that said that they offered the same deal to Adrian Aucoin has he took to go to Chi-town and JD has said they offered Forsberg 6 million to come to New York.

There's also been suggestions that the Rangers have been interested in Niedermayer...

The only thing that is different really is that they didn't have a whole lot of veterans to start with.

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08-03-2005, 11:01 PM
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Yeah, although he hasn't signed anyone big it could be just that no one wanted to come to NY... either way he'll spin it however he wants.

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08-04-2005, 05:31 AM
  #10
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"Second, it's hard to overpay in this new environment. "


Funny, I just saw about 30 players get overpaid in this new environment

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08-04-2005, 07:16 AM
  #11
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I think that Sather is

screwing the pooch once again.

Straka at 3 million is absurd
Malik at 2.5 million is absurd
Rucinsky at 3 million is absurd
Poti qualified at any price is absurd.

We just locked up 4 players at I believe slightly over 11 million and they are all now 3rd line players, 1st line guys in NY, just 3rd line guys most other places.

I will always root for the Jersey, but management is really pissing me off.

not that they care about the fans. whatever.

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08-04-2005, 07:41 AM
  #12
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As others have said, we can't say he's stuck to his guns. If his philosophy has remained and players have simply taken deals elsewhere, well, his philosophy remains - he simply hasn't been able to enact it.

With regards to Philly, why would any team go out of their way to screw them? if you can (like LA) get Roenick on your terms, why would you hurt yourself jst to stick it to a team in the other conference?

I'll also re-post what i've written in another thread since it relates directly to your Flyer question AND Sather:

Clarke has had a brilliant offseason, no two ways about it. He shored up his defense in a big way, jettisoned two huge contracts for two underperforming players, acquired the league's best center, and he walks into next year's draft with FOUR second round draft picks and at least 2 third rounders. (Look for the Flyers to move up very high in the first round.)

This is the joke about excusing Glen Sather because he's worked (working) with a "dual agenda." Clarke has built a exceptional base of young talent WHILE maintaining a competitive team. So the lesson here is that you CAN perform a dual agenda - if you're good.

Clearly Sather is not.

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08-04-2005, 08:52 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happyrangerfan
"Second, it's hard to overpay in this new environment. "


Funny, I just saw about 30 players get overpaid in this new environment

Reread my post and try again.

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08-04-2005, 10:18 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666
screwing the pooch once again.

Straka at 3 million is absurd
Malik at 2.5 million is absurd
Rucinsky at 3 million is absurd
Poti qualified at any price is absurd.

We just locked up 4 players at I believe slightly over 11 million and they are all now 3rd line players, 1st line guys in NY, just 3rd line guys most other places.

I will always root for the Jersey, but management is really pissing me off.

not that they care about the fans. whatever.
This is a little bit of spin.

Straka at 3 million for one-year is not absurd.
Rucinsky at 3 million for one-year is not absurd.

Here is the truth of the matter. The Rangers are bad. They aren't going to be a contending team next season. They don't really even have a prayer at the playoffs. So what's going to get anyone to come here? Right now, the Rangers have to overpay to get players here. The Malik deal is a little strange. But if you look at it, Sather has not made a single move that has locked the team into any kind of cap trouble. He's overpaying because he has to, but he's been intelligent about it by not getting into bidding wars over players and not signing lots of long term deals.

Let me put it this way, my impression of the Straka and Rucinsky deals are that we signed them mainly because we need enough players to ice a damn team.

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08-04-2005, 10:28 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos
This is a little bit of spin.

Straka at 3 million for one-year is not absurd.
Rucinsky at 3 million for one-year is not absurd.

Here is the truth of the matter. The Rangers are bad. They aren't going to be a contending team next season. They don't really even have a prayer at the playoffs. So what's going to get anyone to come here? Right now, the Rangers have to overpay to get players here. The Malik deal is a little strange. But if you look at it, Sather has not made a single move that has locked the team into any kind of cap trouble. He's overpaying because he has to, but he's been intelligent about it by not getting into bidding wars over players and not signing lots of long term deals.

Let me put it this way, my impression of the Straka and Rucinsky deals are that we signed them mainly because we need enough players to ice a damn team.
I agree with you, sather has made some smart decisions with his signies. Both straka and rucinsky are making 3 mill which is not all that bad. Whats even better about these deal is that they are one year deals....meaning when we get near the trade deadline, we may pick up draft picks, which i think is awesome.

I also agree with anyone that thinks malik may be a little overpaid...a little. Dont forget this guy led the leage in +/-, which whether you like it or not, gives the guy leverage. And so far with all the other defensmen signing for more, at least all the d-man that i have seen, its not all that bad of a sign. The guy may not use his body but he deffinetly isnt poti. Poti was a 4th forward, this guy knows how to get the puck out of the zone. thats something we havnt had, and somtihng im willing to pay to get.

Besides if your going to get a d-man who makes sure his zone is cleared, why not get the guy who lead the leage in +/-?

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08-04-2005, 12:22 PM
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It ain't over yet, Atlanta...

the market is four days old with many old people still out there and potential trades to still happen. But I'm not sure what options were really out there for the Rangers, unless Sather wanted to blow an entire wad on two guys, both of whom were more than happy to go somewhere else and would only take excessive $$$ from the Rangers.

I'm not ecstatic about Malik. Straka's only good because it's for one season. Rucinsky's back for a third tour. And he did overpay for Straka and Rucinsky, by the way, although it won't matter since it is for only one year, a year in which the cash is not needed.

We'll see what he does.

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08-04-2005, 09:44 PM
  #17
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Sather is doing a great job this offseason. Frankly he has done a great job since the fire sale. He shouldn't be the GM but at some point Maloney will take over and that will be that.

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08-05-2005, 06:48 AM
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Stuck to his guns? What are you watching? All he did was switch from taking up kids spots with big FA's to taking up kids spots with reject FA role players. Same crap, different color.

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08-05-2005, 06:55 AM
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I don't think signing some veterans is a bad idea, the kids have to learn from somebody, but Marek Malik and Martin Rucinsky??? What are they going to learn for those two? How to be lazy?

And wait till you see Roman Hamrlik in blue and white

But i did like the first round draft pick. You guys got a steal with Staal.

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08-05-2005, 10:07 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
Has he stuck to his guns, or have the "guns" decided to go elsewhere? There's already been a report (Alan Hahn, Newsday) that said that they offered the same deal to Adrian Aucoin has he took to go to Chi-town and JD has said they offered Forsberg 6 million to come to New York.

There's also been suggestions that the Rangers have been interested in Niedermayer...

The only thing that is different really is that they didn't have a whole lot of veterans to start with.
I think they said all along the they were going to try and sign some guys to help lead the young players on their roster. Who better than Peter Forsberg?

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08-05-2005, 10:10 AM
  #21
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Do you really need Forsberg...

when you have Jagr? How many 'star' vets are really needed? The plan was obviously (or hopefully) to keep cap room available for the future - which would be taking a run at UFAs under 30 years old the next couple seasons. That should remain the objective. Further, it's not a forgone conclusion that Forsberg would come to New York (seems as though he may've been enticed to come here if Naslund came here too).

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08-05-2005, 08:31 PM
  #22
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Forget for a moment that you hate Sather

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
I'm not sold that he did. Sounds like Sather was turned down by more than a few guys. Leetch, Forsberg, Naslund and, perhaps, Neidermeyer.
and the team is not the rangers, but a team with a similar situation, do you think any of those guys sign with that team? Come on, it's the situation more than anything else. Those guys are top guys nearing the end of their useful playing life. Notice I said useful. They want another shot at grabbing a ring.That is the reason why they turned away, if indeed they had an offer. Let's not forget for one moment the fact that agents in every single sport say to the other teams, "well you know I havve an offer from the NY team". More times than not its pure fiction just to drive the price up and eliminate the real players from the tire kickers. Bringing in a NY team into the bidding even on an imaginary basis, has the desired effect. As far as getting turned down, the same can be said for every single GM out there. So he's been no different than any of the others. You make it sound like he's the only one getting turned down.

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08-05-2005, 08:34 PM
  #23
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Malik was a bit intriguing to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
the market is four days old with many old people still out there and potential trades to still happen. But I'm not sure what options were really out there for the Rangers, unless Sather wanted to blow an entire wad on two guys, both of whom were more than happy to go somewhere else and would only take excessive $$$ from the Rangers.

I'm not ecstatic about Malik. Straka's only good because it's for one season. Rucinsky's back for a third tour. And he did overpay for Straka and Rucinsky, by the way, although it won't matter since it is for only one year, a year in which the cash is not needed.

We'll see what he does.
I thought he was a real pain in the butt to play against whenever we played his teams. He's not a flashy guy. I view him more a safe choice. I think he made Jovo look good in vancouver. I see him being paired with one of the guy kids, same with kaspar.

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Old
08-06-2005, 03:30 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666
screwing the pooch once again.

Straka at 3 million is absurd
Malik at 2.5 million is absurd
Rucinsky at 3 million is absurd
Poti qualified at any price is absurd.

We just locked up 4 players at I believe slightly over 11 million and they are all now 3rd line players, 1st line guys in NY, just 3rd line guys most other places.

I will always root for the Jersey, but management is really pissing me off.

not that they care about the fans. whatever.

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Old
08-06-2005, 09:18 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER
has stuck to his guns on rebuilding?
There is a central theme expressed all over this site and by many Rangers fans in general. It attributes all of the Rangers' woes under Sather to his building around free agents instead of building from within.

That was not the problem here. The problem was the free agents Sather went after, his abominable coaching choices, the coaches implementing systems that worked against their free agents, rather than playing to their strengths (see Holik) etc.

Over the time frame of Sather's tenure some other teams did exceedingly well playing the free agent game. In fact, it was responsible for quite a few Cup wins. My understanding is that that is the goal. To win the Cup.

Confusing Sather's failures with the notion of going after free agents is missing the point.

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