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Is it finally time for a new GM?

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Old
01-14-2014, 04:31 PM
  #26
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
I don't even know I'd say half wouldn't. The Cup is huge.
Think about it this way -- if we change the outcome of ONE PERIOD of hockey in 2006, nearly every team would pass on our 20-year record.

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01-14-2014, 04:32 PM
  #27
staalgood
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I really just don't like how JR has constructed the team. He's not only is reactionary (see the changes he made after getting swept in the 09 ECF by Pittsburgh), but he go from one extreme to another. Last year, this team had too many puck-moving defensemen. This season started with rookie Ryan Murphy as the only PMD. This team has needed some size in the forward ranks, who does JR pick up this offseason? Nathan Gerbe, the smallest guy in the NHL. Gerbe is a nice player, but you need to line him up with some players with size. Carolina really doesn't have that.

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01-14-2014, 05:01 PM
  #28
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The game has changed. It's a young man's game, with short-term contracts and maximizing entry-level deals. JR doesn't think that way. No GM in the league would have given Semin the contract JR gave him. It's just not the way the game is played these days. Twenty years ago, maybe you have to lock up a one-dimensional player in his prime. But JR has been very slow to adapt to the way the game is played now, as a 20-man unit, with everyone fighting for jobs and playing time every minute of every game.

I think JR has done a horrible job of building a team for the 2010s. I hate to say it, but guys like E. Staal, Semin, Ruutu and Cam Ward are over-the-hill in today's NHL, and we have very few young players coming up behind them. He just hasn't adjusted to the way GMs need to think in this era and as a result, we have a great team, if this was the 1990s. But it isn't, and we suck.

Plus, we have the softest team in the NHL by a wide margin. I was driving to the Leafs game with three Leafs fans and we all agreed there would be a fight. But none of us could think of a single guy on the Canes who would drop the gloves. After much consternation, we all agreed Justin Faulk was the only guy and sure enough, he dropped 'em with Lupul. Seriously, Justin Faulk is our most likely guy to fight. Think about that.

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01-14-2014, 05:16 PM
  #29
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
Plus, we have the softest team in the NHL by a wide margin. I was driving to the Leafs game with three Leafs fans and we all agreed there would be a fight. But none of us could think of a single guy on the Canes who would drop the gloves. After much consternation, we all agreed Justin Faulk was the only guy and sure enough, he dropped 'em with Lupul. Seriously, Justin Faulk is our most likely guy to fight. Think about that.
I agree that the team is much too soft, but I'm also kind of surprised that you're taking JR to task for not including enough fighters. He just traded 2 of them to universal acclaim.

The team doesn't need more fighters, it needs more guys like Faulk.

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01-14-2014, 05:20 PM
  #30
totaltank
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I agree that the team is much too soft, but I'm also kind of surprised that you're taking JR to task for not including enough fighters. He just traded 2 of them to universal acclaim.

The team doesn't need more fighters, it needs more guys like Faulk.
Yeah, I was worried that wouldn't come across right on a message board. I don't necessarily want more fighters. I just want more guys who can play hard-nosed hockey. We're very easy to play against. Our forwards don't take the body on the forecheck. We don't win any board battles. We shy away from hits in the neutral zone. It's OK to have a couple of guys like that, but when we put Lindholm, Skinner and Semin on the ice together, with Murphy and Hainsey on the back end, the goalie could be the most likely player to take a hit to make a play.

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01-14-2014, 05:20 PM
  #31
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Yes, Staal looked especially over the hill in finishing 6th in scoring last year. Semin too at his PPG pace.

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01-14-2014, 05:35 PM
  #32
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Soon to be 5 straight years without a playoff appearance.

I said it at the start of last season in January that if we miss playoffs the next two seasons (12-13 and 13-14), then I won't (financially) support the Canes until JR is gone. I understand parity, and budgets, and all that, but it's hard to argue against that list of current playoff droughts and say 1994 isn't a big deal. I used to go to about 10 games a year, every year. I've gone to 2 or 3 this season. There's no light at the end of the tunnel.

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01-14-2014, 05:49 PM
  #33
TheBigKahuna
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Long overdue.

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01-14-2014, 06:18 PM
  #34
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been a season ticket holder for 11 years... I'm done after this year with my support until this team shows me something... I can just buy tickets for pennies on the dollar off stub hub when I want to go... Lowers for $20 for many games...

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01-14-2014, 06:27 PM
  #35
impeach estaalo
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well, this is how the offseason will go, based on every JR offsesaon ever:

- all of gerbe, bellemore, hainsey, malhotra will be signed for market value on long-term deals instead of looking to replace any of them with buy-low options. this will leave a team already thin on depth with even less as they will have no money left to sign anyone halfway decent, forcing them team to either fill 5 or 6 roster spots with league minimum players (most of whom are "gritty" and terrible, because that's JR niche will obsess over this offseason) or trading picks and prospects to get rid of ruutu's contract and then filling the team with merely 3 or 4 borderline NHLers.
- tlusty will be traded for a conditional 6th round pick. he had a bad year and is therefore trash. any players not named cam ward who suck for a season are on the JR must-trade-for-anything block.
- khudobin? peters? are you kidding? "we are confident in cam's ability to boune back. he is an elite goalie in this league. we like our group" dan ellis signed to back up.
- joshua wesley picked 150 spots higher than he should be, we pick some guy who was passed over in two previous drafts (this player will be 6'3", 220 pounds, and have 9 goals as a 19-year old), and trade another pick for a fringe NHLer.

so unless you want to see that, JR should be fired.

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01-14-2014, 07:26 PM
  #36
dogbazinho
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Yes time for a new GM and new approach. Initially I felt most of this organization's issues stemmed from the financials but after seeing the purse strings relax I think it's more organizational. We do not seem to have a consistent message across players, staff, scouting, and minors. We draft players to fit a certain role, use them in another in the pros and send them down to the minors and use them in yet a different role. Accountability, a supposed hallmark of this coaching staff, seems to get lost on the players and staff that matter most like the captain. JR, while I think he does a serviceable job of finding players that can excel here does a poor job of assessing his own talent and knowing when to cut bait. He also negotiates from a position of weakness, not only in trades, but in contract negotiations which has burned us in the past. I seem to recall him even admitting he doesn't like to get the better of other GM's in trades due to relationships. IMO, old school mentality. The troubling part of all of this is he doesn't seem to learn. After seeing a NTC flexed you'd think he'd be hesitant to give out another but he gives them out to role players. I know alot of this isn't just about JR but his removal to me is more of a signal that this organization is willing to follow through on accountability and give this team some fresh ideas/energy.

Alot of my dissatisfaction with the team stems from the season following the Stanley Cup win. We had an opportunity to capitalize, make this market an attractive one, enforce a winning mentality, create depth whereby the cup veterans can provide leadership while our depth could be prospects pushing the vets for minutes. We failed, almost all our players were universally overpaid and we have never recovered. It could be said that JR's biggest failure is not knowing how to win.


Last edited by dogbazinho: 01-14-2014 at 08:34 PM.
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01-14-2014, 10:14 PM
  #37
Lazyking
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it has been time for a new GM for years now.

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01-14-2014, 11:08 PM
  #38
TheOllieC
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Yeah but I don't know who I'd want to replace JR, is Ronnie Franchise ready?

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01-14-2014, 11:20 PM
  #39
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Is Francis the right move? I mean, it's a given that he's going to be the choice regardless, but is he actually going to turn this mess around or will it just be the same **** painted a different color?

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01-15-2014, 05:32 AM
  #40
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true

Quote:
Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
Yeah, I was worried that wouldn't come across right on a message board. I don't necessarily want more fighters. I just want more guys who can play hard-nosed hockey. We're very easy to play against. Our forwards don't take the body on the forecheck. We don't win any board battles. We shy away from hits in the neutral zone. It's OK to have a couple of guys like that, but when we put Lindholm, Skinner and Semin on the ice together, with Murphy and Hainsey on the back end, the goalie could be the most likely player to take a hit to make a play.
Agree completely, Bellemore hits, but no one is afraid that we will muck it up, we play tic tac toe, along boards, cant get to the net..... its hard to watch..

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01-15-2014, 09:02 AM
  #41
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
Yeah, I was worried that wouldn't come across right on a message board. I don't necessarily want more fighters. I just want more guys who can play hard-nosed hockey. We're very easy to play against. Our forwards don't take the body on the forecheck. We don't win any board battles. We shy away from hits in the neutral zone. It's OK to have a couple of guys like that, but when we put Lindholm, Skinner and Semin on the ice together, with Murphy and Hainsey on the back end, the goalie could be the most likely player to take a hit to make a play.
Needless to say, I completely agree. This has been an issue for the longest time.

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01-15-2014, 09:08 AM
  #42
impeach estaalo
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Is Francis the right move? I mean, it's a given that he's going to be the choice regardless, but is he actually going to turn this mess around or will it just be the same **** painted a different color?
I would like to hire a GM outside of the country club. Let's not be Edmonton.

And wasn't it Francis who expertly recommended Riley Nash and Noah Babin? Being a great hockey player doesn't necessarily mean you have the ability to run a hockey team.

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01-15-2014, 09:39 AM
  #43
The Faulker 27
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I'm totally on board with a GM change. I've voiced that longer than most people, not here, but in other conversations. I think JR has made some very good roster moves in the past and he has a Stanley Cup to show for it. Good for him. However, that was 2006 and the ECF's were 2009. We're looking at 2014 with the possibility of missing again.

I have several friends that were "big" fans after the 2006 Cup, and 2009 run but they haven't watched and/or attended the games in a long time. We all make fun of fair weather fans but it's them (they?) who fill the extra seats, impulsively buy merchandise, and help make professional team's profitable.

It's definitely too soon to say "oh well, another year lost" but as others have stated the trend is glaringly obvious. They need to make the playoffs now or JR has to go.

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01-15-2014, 10:03 AM
  #44
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaxing Joni Jokel View Post
I would like to hire a GM outside of the country club. Let's not be Edmonton.
I agree, but I think this is going to be the real stumbling block for this franchise. Unlike some of our peer organizations, we have an embedded culture and history of relationships that makes it really tough to just clean house all at once. Say Rutherford steps down... if they replace him with someone from outside the family, that likely spells the end of Brind'Amour, Francis, and Stillman in this organization. Can anyone imagine that happening?

If they're serious about a change in direction, to the point that they want to bring in a GM with "his guys" and not just a continuation of the current lineage, then it's going to require a major change in identity from top to bottom. Basically, it will require Karmanos to be really pissed off and ready to fire a bunch of his buddies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Faulker 27 View Post
I have several friends that were "big" fans after the 2006 Cup, and 2009 run but they haven't watched and/or attended the games in a long time. We all make fun of fair weather fans but it's them (they?) who fill the extra seats, impulsively buy merchandise, and help make professional team's profitable.
And they're also the ones who bring fresh energy into the building. Someone mentioned the other night how dead the crowds have been this season; I believe it has a lot to do with the loss of the fair weather fanbase. Most of the people in the building are long-time fans who are fed up with the past few years, overexposed to too many meaningless games, and really not inclined to go crazy about a random faceoff in the 2nd period. You can really feel the difference in atmosphere when the crowd is bored with the game, which is the impression that I have been getting lately.

Bringing those fairweather fans back into the building, even if they're not the most knowledgeable crowd, would inject some life into the place. That in turn would help motivate some positive energy from the STH crowd.

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01-15-2014, 10:10 AM
  #45
TheBigKahuna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Is Francis the right move? I mean, it's a given that he's going to be the choice regardless, but is he actually going to turn this mess around or will it just be the same **** painted a different color?

I'd only hope that they'd go after someone with a proven track record, or new blood. Nepotism is a recipe for more of the same in my opinion.

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01-15-2014, 10:17 AM
  #46
Joe McGrath
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JR should have been gone long long ago but let's get one thing straight, this is a playoff team today if Staal, Ward and Semin hadn't been terrible for most of this season. I'm sorry but that's not JRs fault. In fact most of his recent moves are the ones keeping the team afloat (Malhotra, Khudobin, JStaal, Gerbe, Hainsey, Sekera). If anything JR did a decent job rebuilding this team from what it was last year on paper. Unfortunately the 3 supposedly best and highest paid players have been terrible or injured or both.

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01-15-2014, 10:38 AM
  #47
The Faulker 27
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Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
JR should have been gone long long ago but let's get one thing straight, this is a playoff team today if Staal, Ward and Semin hadn't been terrible for most of this season. I'm sorry but that's not JRs fault. In fact most of his recent moves are the ones keeping the team afloat (Malhotra, Khudobin, JStaal, Gerbe, Hainsey, Sekera). If anything JR did a decent job rebuilding this team from what it was last year on paper. Unfortunately the 3 supposedly best and highest paid players have been terrible or injured or both.
I don't disagree with you on that but unfortunately for JR, he signed them, and that's what matters. Any GM would have signed Ward and Staal after that Cup run. Would they have gone for so many years or paid them as much? Who knows. I'm not going to debate how good or bad any of them are or the value of their contracts but when a company tanks over and over no one goes around pointing fingers at the top employee's. It's the man in charge that gets blamed. That's why he get's paid the big bucks as they say.

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01-15-2014, 10:51 AM
  #48
totaltank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
JR should have been gone long long ago but let's get one thing straight, this is a playoff team today if Staal, Ward and Semin hadn't been terrible for most of this season. I'm sorry but that's not JRs fault. In fact most of his recent moves are the ones keeping the team afloat (Malhotra, Khudobin, JStaal, Gerbe, Hainsey, Sekera). If anything JR did a decent job rebuilding this team from what it was last year on paper. Unfortunately the 3 supposedly best and highest paid players have been terrible or injured or both.
I agree with you, that our stars have been the problem. But unlike you, I'm not going to give JR a pass. JR is the guy who decided to hitch our wagon to Staal and Ward, make sure both were locked up for the better part of their careers and put the "C" on Eric's sweater. Then he inexplicably gave Semin a "lifetime" deal after just a few months of his one-year deal. The single biggest issue I have with JR isn't his talent judgement or his trades or even his drafting, it's his contract management. The list of bad contract decisions is stunning. The number of trades we've made the past few years to dump bad contracts -- starting with Oleg Tverdovsky going with Jack Johnson and continuing through the baffling one-way deal for Jeremy Welsh this year -- is just too much for a small-market team to overcome.

Put simply and looking at the big picture, when a small-market team is up against the cap to finish out of the playoffs, something is horribly, horribly wrong. And that's all on JR.

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01-15-2014, 11:21 AM
  #49
Elsker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
JR should have been gone long long ago but let's get one thing straight, this is a playoff team today if Staal, Ward and Semin hadn't been terrible for most of this season. I'm sorry but that's not JRs fault. In fact most of his recent moves are the ones keeping the team afloat (Malhotra, Khudobin, JStaal, Gerbe, Hainsey, Sekera). If anything JR did a decent job rebuilding this team from what it was last year on paper. Unfortunately the 3 supposedly best and highest paid players have been terrible or injured or both.
QFT

Defense completely overhauled and not half-bad this season.

Bottom-six much improved. Solid back-up goalie acquired.

High-dollar veteran core a mysterious no-show so far.

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01-15-2014, 11:32 AM
  #50
The Faulker 27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaxing Joni Jokel View Post
...most of whom are "gritty" and terrible...
JR has redefined the meaning of gritty.

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