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Ales Hemsky worth a third round pick?

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Old
01-15-2014, 11:30 AM
  #101
ManofSteel55
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
yes but when it comes to risk/reward...Hemsky is not worth giving up a 1st for. A 70 point Hemsky was. The 40-50 point Hemsky is not. He is worth a 2nd+ salary coming back.
Funny thing is, he's still the same player, he may actually have become a better two way player. He just doesn't get as much prime ice time, powerplay time, linemates like he once did. He's still a 60 point player on a team that can give him top quality minutes and linemates.

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01-15-2014, 11:40 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by ManofSteel55 View Post
Funny thing is, he's still the same player, he may actually have become a better two way player. He just doesn't get as much prime ice time, powerplay time, linemates like he once did. He's still a 60 point player on a team that can give him top quality minutes and linemates.
No...No he isn't.

He is on pace for 41 points.
Last year on pace for 43 points
2 years ago pace was for 43 points

It is time Oilers fans realize that he is no longer that type of point producer. He is a 40-45 points guy over the last 3 seasons. That IS his REAL value.

And as for icetime...Eberle is the 1st line RW. Hemsky's competition is Yak the past 2 years. The year before that was who? Ryan Jones maybe?(33 points)

I actually like Hemsky. He can help certain teams. But he is no longer worth a 1st.

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01-15-2014, 11:41 AM
  #103
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For a third round pick, the Oilers would probably have buyers. Might even be able to squeeze a second. Anything more than that strikes me as a pipe dream.

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01-15-2014, 11:45 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by McArthur View Post
I really don't understand why we let that guy into rexall. Him or ryan rishaug. No draft picks are worth hockey players in this draft, especially a 3rd round pick. Someone punch Spector in the face. right now Oilers are sitting with the 2nd overall pick... I want to trade it away! in fact if MacT traded every draft pick he had in this draft for future considerations... we might be better off. that's how weak this draft is. so I want spector to walk up to Ales Hemsky, and tell him to his face that he's worth a 3rd round pick in an incredibly weak draft. Then I want to watch Ales Hemsky punch spector in the face. They can do it in the bar on the way to the dressing room.
While there's no disputing that scouts unanimously say this draft is weaker than previous years, it's getting a little tiresome hearing some people's obtuse opinions like "if MacT traded every draft pick for future considerations, we'd be better off." All you have to do is reference the 2007 draft and how it was dubbed the weakest in a decade at the time (or since 99 at least). This was evident by how many 1st rders were moved in trade (13 1sts changed hands at some point - 5 of them more than once). Yet when the dust settled, that draft was decent, considering:

- the first round yielded 17 players who are currently NHL regulars (might have been 18 if not for the Cherepanov tragedy).

- an NHL player in every round.

- impact players outside of the first round (Subban and Simmonds in the 2nd, Benn in the 5th).

The point being, if the scouts do their homework I'm sure there are impact players outside of the top 5-10. If it is a complete lack of trust in our scouting staff, then I have no problem with your take. But to suggest this draft is a waste of time is foolish. There are draft eligible players playing significant roles on their junior clubs right now competing against 19 and 20 year olds from "stronger" previous drafts and they seem to be holding their own.

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01-15-2014, 11:48 AM
  #105
ManofSteel55
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
No...No he isn't.

He is on pace for 41 points.
Last year on pace for 43 points
2 years ago pace was for 43 points

It is time Oilers fans realize that he is no longer that type of point producer. He is a 40-45 points guy over the last 3 seasons. That IS his REAL value.

And as for icetime...Eberle is the 1st line RW. Hemsky's competition is Yak the past 2 years. The year before that was who? Ryan Jones maybe?(33 points)

I actually like Hemsky. He can help certain teams. But he is no longer worth a 1st.
Read the whole thread, and take some advice from people who actually do watch him. He's on 41 pace playing with Boyd Gordon primarily, on the 2nd powerplay unit. He used to be a 70 point player, playing with much better linemates, and top unit powerplay time. Get it through your head. Hemsky's skill is still the same. He is just as willing to go to the dirty areas. The only difference, is that this year he has been more focussed on two way play. You can sit back and stat watch all you like, it doesn't make you right. Hemsky is playing better than he has in 5 years, but when you are playing with Boyd Gordon and over the hill Smyth, the points won't show up. Especially for a playmaker.

What about his game is different than a few years ago? Aside from his stat line of course? Perhaps you can enlighten us Oiler fans as to what about Ales Hemsky's game has made him such a worse player.


Last edited by ManofSteel55: 01-15-2014 at 12:01 PM.
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01-15-2014, 12:04 PM
  #106
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I hope we resign him and trade Eberle.

Also, Sportsnet is ********.
I love Hemmers, but its time for him to go. Can't wait till he goes to Pittsburgh or any contending team and plays competitive hockey. The hockey fans of the east (aka clueless fans) will see just how "useless" he is.

EDIT: gonna bookmark this post just to remind you of how clueless some of you really were when he gets traded and preforms.

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01-15-2014, 12:08 PM
  #107
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Eric Gryba is a solid snarly D man who can give you 15-18 minutes a night while playing a sort of enforcer. He destroyed Eller last year in the playoffs with a huge hit so he has that in his reptoir so I think he could be worth Hemsky this year.

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01-15-2014, 12:12 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by ManofSteel55 View Post
Read the whole thread, and take some advice from people who actually do watch him. He's on 41 pace playing with Boyd Gordon primarily, on the 2nd powerplay unit. He used to be a 70 point player, playing with much better linemates, and top unit powerplay time. Get it through your head. Hemsky's skill is still the same. He is just as willing to go to the dirty areas. The only difference, is that this year he has been more focussed on two way play. You can sit back and stat watch all you like, it doesn't make you right. Hemsky is playing better than he has in 5 years, but when you are playing with Boyd Gordon and over the hill Smyth, the points won't show up. Especially for a playmaker.

What about his game is different than a few years ago? Aside from his stat line of course? Perhaps you can enlighten us Oiler fans as to what about Ales Hemsky's game has made him such a worse player.
Move on dude. Hemsky is what he is. A second line player that if healthy he'll put up 40-50 points. Stats don't tell the whole story but they also don't lie.
He gets 2nd unit PP time which means he's up against oppositions weaker 2nd PK unit

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01-15-2014, 12:15 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Move on dude. Hemsky is what he is. A second line player that if healthy he'll put up 40-50 points. Stats don't tell the whole story but they also don't lie.
He gets 2nd unit PP time which means he's up against oppositions weaker 2nd PK unit
I agree, he is a second line player. Playing a 3rd line role primarily, yet is still on pace for 40 points. In a top six role, Hemsky is a 50 - 60 point player. Exactly what he always realistically was, considering how he is adapting his game to be more rounded. I'm not saying he's worth the moon here, but some people seem to think Hemsky is a borderline NHL'er at this point, which is not the case. And "stats don't lie" is probably the most b.s. statement I've seen here in a long time. Stats are easy to manipulate, and mean nothing if not taken in context.

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01-15-2014, 12:30 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by ManofSteel55 View Post
I agree, he is a second line player. Playing a 3rd line role primarily, yet is still on pace for 40 points. In a top six role, Hemsky is a 50 - 60 point player. Exactly what he always realistically was, considering how he is adapting his game to be more rounded. I'm not saying he's worth the moon here, but some people seem to think Hemsky is a borderline NHL'er at this point, which is not the case. And "stats don't lie" is probably the most b.s. statement I've seen here in a long time. Stats are easy to manipulate, and mean nothing if not taken in context.
He was playing in a top 6 role for at least 20 of the first 30 games with guys like Hall injured and Yak in the doghouse. His production remained the same in those games.

I will say his game has seen better defensive awareness, but he has his opportunities and is still just a 40-50 point player. Late 2nd is all I expect.

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01-15-2014, 12:33 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by ManofSteel55 View Post
I agree, he is a second line player. Playing a 3rd line role primarily, yet is still on pace for 40 points. In a top six role, Hemsky is a 50 - 60 point player. Exactly what he always realistically was, considering how he is adapting his game to be more rounded. I'm not saying he's worth the moon here, but some people seem to think Hemsky is a borderline NHL'er at this point, which is not the case. And "stats don't lie" is probably the most b.s. statement I've seen here in a long time. Stats are easy to manipulate, and mean nothing if not taken in context.
You've claimed that Yakupov would be doing better if Eakins wasn't bouncing him around the 3/4 lines. So who they hell besides Eberle is playing the top 6 RW?
Hemsky has been brutal on the PP and really can't keep up with the speed in the top 6 so he's played himself down to the 3rd line because his offense is drying up but he does play a better defensive game

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01-15-2014, 12:37 PM
  #112
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I'd rather trade Hemsky for a bottom six roster player with some size than a draft pick (if the market is there). If he's worth a 3rd round pick, is it not possible he could fetch a bubble NHL guy?

Hemsky can help almost any team in some capacity right now and will contribute in a playoff run. For any playoff team that should be worth a throwaway player who can stick with the Oilers bottom six.

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01-15-2014, 12:39 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by ManofSteel55 View Post
Read the whole thread, and take some advice from people who actually do watch him. He's on 41 pace playing with Boyd Gordon primarily, on the 2nd powerplay unit. He used to be a 70 point player, playing with much better linemates, and top unit powerplay time. Get it through your head. Hemsky's skill is still the same. He is just as willing to go to the dirty areas. The only difference, is that this year he has been more focussed on two way play. You can sit back and stat watch all you like, it doesn't make you right. Hemsky is playing better than he has in 5 years, but when you are playing with Boyd Gordon and over the hill Smyth, the points won't show up. Especially for a playmaker.

What about his game is different than a few years ago? Aside from his stat line of course? Perhaps you can enlighten us Oiler fans as to what about Ales Hemsky's game has made him such a worse player.
Think I've still got a PM from an Oiler fan flipping out on me for daring to question the notion that Jeff Petry is a superior two-way player in comparison to Ryan McDonagh.

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01-15-2014, 12:45 PM
  #114
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I'd send Ryan Wilson and maybe even John Mitchell for him yesterday if the Avs could extend him at a better number. Avs need more top 9 caliber RWs and Hemsky on the cheap would be ideal for bolstering the depth.

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01-15-2014, 12:53 PM
  #115
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Oilers should retain 50% salary to try to get max value. Probably a 2nd rounder. Katz can take the money out of Lowe and MacT's salary.

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01-15-2014, 12:57 PM
  #116
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Hemsky for Volchenkov/Salvador?

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01-15-2014, 01:00 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by ManofSteel55 View Post
I agree, he is a second line player. Playing a 3rd line role primarily, yet is still on pace for 40 points. In a top six role, Hemsky is a 50 - 60 point player. Exactly what he always realistically was, considering how he is adapting his game to be more rounded. I'm not saying he's worth the moon here, but some people seem to think Hemsky is a borderline NHL'er at this point, which is not the case. And "stats don't lie" is probably the most b.s. statement I've seen here in a long time. Stats are easy to manipulate, and mean nothing if not taken in context.
He's playing 16+ minutes per game. He's playing 2.22 minutes on the PP per game.

His linemates for this season:
Gagner: 38% of games
Gordon: 36% of games
Smyth: 28% of games
Yakupov: 26% of games
Perron: 25% of games
Hall: 21% of games
Arcobello: 17% of games
Nugent-Hopkins: 9% of games

Him not playing on a consistent line has hurt him this season, but he's clearly used more as a second than a third liner this year.

I can see him fetch a second round pick but it's not like he's being buried on the Oilers and can't produce offensively because of that.

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01-15-2014, 01:11 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Douglas Murray was worth those picks, the way he played on the Pens was pretty solid, wasn't mad one bit with his time in Pittsburgh. I don't think I would give up those picks for Hemsky.
Thanks, I needed that laugh. Face it, "GM of the Year" got ripped off on the Murray deal.


Speaking of the Murray deal, I'd give Pittsburgh's 2nd plus someone like Adam Burish (salary purposes) for Hemsky with some cap retained. Hemsky would be perfect for the Sharks, we just don't have the cap or contract space for him.

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01-15-2014, 02:03 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by The Big Unit View Post
I'd rather trade Hemsky for a bottom six roster player with some size than a draft pick (if the market is there). If he's worth a 3rd round pick, is it not possible he could fetch a bubble NHL guy?

Hemsky can help almost any team in some capacity right now and will contribute in a playoff run. For any playoff team that should be worth a throwaway player who can stick with the Oilers bottom six.
While not a forward, somebody brought up Eric Gryba and I thought it might be a good option for the Oilers, obviously depending on what other teams are offering.

I think the Sens could be willing to move Gryba, a 3rd/4th and one of our Binghamton players like Da Costa, Hoffman, Prince, O'Brien, Grant.

My guess would be the Oilers would prefer Grant in the package as he has looked decent so far in his limited time as a penalty killing and defensively responsible center.

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01-15-2014, 04:07 PM
  #120
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While I agree with a previous poster that Spector is ********, I think his point is simply that Hemsky is overvalued by Oiler management and otherwise would have been moved at prior draft deadlines.

From what I recall, even oiler fans wanted him traded when he was a pending UFA and they never moved him, so I think that is (or at least was) evidence of overvalue.

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01-15-2014, 04:16 PM
  #121
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question for oiler fans how much lw has he played ? can he play to 6 mins in your opinion? How is he on the pp Does he play much pk?
He moves around so much that it doesn't matter what wing he plays on, imo. He can be an effective PP guy.

He's not a pk-er.

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01-15-2014, 04:16 PM
  #122
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I think a team desperate for some offense might pony up a 2nd rounder for him.

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01-15-2014, 04:34 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Nazemlupul View Post
They just mentioned on sportsnet that the oilers won't get more than a third for Ales Hemsky. Which teams will be interested in him at that price?
Supply + demand.
Contenders + outside contenders w/need due to injury.
Competitive bid.

not too many
Prob. Pens.

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01-15-2014, 04:38 PM
  #124
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For those who are unaware, Mark Spector is an idiot. I think someone will cough up a 2nd, or if they get desperate, maybe a late 1st.
We're talking about a GM who is desperate, not insane. No one is giving you a first rounder for Ales Hemsky.

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01-15-2014, 04:43 PM
  #125
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Hemsky will be traded for a 3rd to make up for the one MacT lost in getting Scrivens.

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