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05-14-2014, 09:35 AM
  #251
Vitto79
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Honestly I don't know why the buyout is seen as 100% given.

I actually expect Sather to keep him at this point. The only place it is being discussed is on this board. There are no better options in UFA or in the system.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree but that's what I think will happen.
they get a cap penalty of like 3 million if he retires early which is pretty much a given since the last few yrs of the deal are BS. Its cap curcumvention

Brich would stay if that wasnt the case but it is so regardless of what he does he has to be bought out. Nothing against the guy, heck he just scored the game winning goal

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05-14-2014, 09:54 AM
  #252
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I wish they could do something about the cap recapture penalty. It was almost designed for this one contract. A couple of options I wish they could get done:

- Lift the ban on signing an amnesty bought out player. The Rangers want to rid themselves of the contract, not the player. BRich's contract only got bad after the new cba. For it to truely be an amnesty/compliance buyout, the club should be able to retain the player. - Probably an unlikely option, since it would be unfair to allow an exception when other teams/players have not had that option.

- Allow for a limited restructure. If the player and team agree to modify the contract length and yearly wages provided the $ total in the contract remains the same, the contract may be altered.

- Allow the recapture penalty to be spread over multiple years, similar to how the regular buyout penalty works.

I know a lot of people think the Rangers deserve a penalty for cap circumventon, but they were within the rules and I don't agree with punishment for breaking a rule that has yet to exist.

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05-14-2014, 09:57 AM
  #253
HatTrick Swayze
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
they get a cap penalty of like 3 million if he retires early which is pretty much a given since the last few yrs of the deal are BS. Its cap curcumvention

Brich would stay if that wasnt the case but it is so regardless of what he does he has to be bought out. Nothing against the guy, heck he just scored the game winning goal
I understand all that. I think the front office still will say, "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it" because Richards makes them better now. My point is, I dont think it is a given AT ALL that they are as concerned about recapture as this board is.

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05-14-2014, 10:02 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Honestly I don't know why the buyout is seen as 100% given.

I actually expect Sather to keep him at this point. The only place it is being discussed is on this board. There are no better options in UFA or in the system.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree but that's what I think will happen.
It's seen as 100% given because all other options lead to us getting a large cap penalty. Sure, the cap will go up, but so will salaries. The Rangers are always going to spend to the cap, no matter what the number is.

Of course, many of us thought it was 100% given that he would be bought out last year, so who knows what Sather will do. Having his BFF in MSL here muddies the waters for sure.

In my mind, it has nothing to do with what options are available to replace him. It's a business decision, not a hockey decision. We can't replace Richards now? How are we going to replace him 3 years from now when he retires and we have no cap space because of cap recapture and no high end prospects because of all the high draft picks we've given up? How are we going to replace MSL when he leaves or retires? Trading Nash may become necessary in the very near future.

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05-14-2014, 10:05 AM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I understand all that. I think the front office still will say, "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it" because Richards makes them better now. My point is, I dont think it is a given AT ALL that they are as concerned about recapture as this board is.
Agreed. Especially because Sather will likely be retired and the recapture will be someone else's mess.

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05-14-2014, 10:09 AM
  #256
HatTrick Swayze
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GAG, personally I agree with you. My only point is I'm not sold at all that management does as well.

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05-14-2014, 12:47 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
It's seen as 100% given because all other options lead to us getting a large cap penalty. Sure, the cap will go up, but so will salaries. The Rangers are always going to spend to the cap, no matter what the number is.

Of course, many of us thought it was 100% given that he would be bought out last year, so who knows what Sather will do. Having his BFF in MSL here muddies the waters for sure.

In my mind, it has nothing to do with what options are available to replace him. It's a business decision, not a hockey decision. We can't replace Richards now? How are we going to replace him 3 years from now when he retires and we have no cap space because of cap recapture and no high end prospects because of all the high draft picks we've given up? How are we going to replace MSL when he leaves or retires? Trading Nash may become necessary in the very near future.
The bold is EXACTLY why I said it's going to come down to Nash vs Richards this offseason. Richards is Producing, Nash is not. Nash is here until 2019? Richards till 2020.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
they get a cap penalty of like 3 million if he retires early which is pretty much a given since the last few yrs of the deal are BS. Its cap curcumvention

Brich would stay if that wasnt the case but it is so regardless of what he does he has to be bought out. Nothing against the guy, heck he just scored the game winning goal
According the the cap recapture calculator on Capgeek:

Quote:
If Brad Richards retires or defects in the 2016 off-season (age 36 as of July 1 that year) and is not traded before doing so, following is an estimated breakdown of the recapture penalties for the involved teams.
Team Benefit: $16,666,667
Penalty: 2016-17 through 2019-20 - $4,166,667
http://capgeek.com/recapture-calcula...aded_year=2014

$4M cap penalty for 3 seasons... one of the wings or lower grade Defense players are going to be stuffed with prospects for those years. If Sather is going to go this route, he better make sure that we draft as well as possible, because we're going to need cost controlled talent to play the lower grade positions.

Richards will NEED to retire that year, because the remaining 3 seasons afterwards, we incur a penalty of $5.2M for the remaining seasons...

On the contrary, if Richards retires in the 2015 offseason, its only a $3M cap penalty...

There should be an option to exercise a contract restructuring, while the team still incurs a smaller cap penalty. For instance:
Richards and NYR agree to restructure the contract at the end of this offseason. Contract gets restructured, and then the cap penalty decreases to half of what it was initially determined to be if the player retired during the offseason of that contract structuring.

I think that woudl be fair. Still handicaps you somewhat, but gives you the ability to retain the player.


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05-14-2014, 12:59 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Said this during the Philadelphia series and I'll say it again here - Brad Richards is the best playoff center the Rangers have had since Messier/Gretzky. Two Eastern Conference finals in three years. When was the last time that happened since the league expanded in '67? I'm thinking never.

He's not a one man show, but he gets it done when it counts and he (along with Lundqvist) is the clear leader of this team with Marty gaining steam.

I hate the amnesty buyout. I mean, I get it, but I hate it. You can't really expect players like Hossa and Richards to renegotiate contracts they've already earned. That would be unfair.

Part of me thinks that if we get 2-3 more years of this year's edition of Brad Richards and then he retires, then it's worth the cap recapture penalty (as long as the cap escalates).

If the Rangers somehow manage to make it to the Finals, do you "reward" Brad Richards by buying him out with the hopes of replacing him in what is a very, very thin UFA market? IDK. This is a lot tougher call now than it would've been at the end of last year and, truth is, Sather deserves some credit for believing BR could turn himself around. He did.
Also interesting to note BR has never lost a game 7. Saw it on the broadcast last night and was surprised. He's played in 7 of them

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05-14-2014, 01:00 PM
  #259
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How do you let Richards go after this?

HOW?

I don't see it happening. The guy is flat out stepping up.

Nash is.....well...I don't know where he is.

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05-14-2014, 01:03 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
How do you let Richards go after this?

HOW?
I think it's safe to say that if Richards had a $5m cap hit or his contract was for 6 years instead of 9, nobody would be talking about the need to buy him out at this point.

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05-14-2014, 01:11 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
How do you let Richards go after this?

HOW?

I don't see it happening. The guy is flat out stepping up.

Nash is.....well...I don't know where he is.
Do you believe that Richards will play to this level for the next 6 years?

Do you believe that Richards will want to play out the last 3 years of his contract when he is only making 1 mil per year?

If the answer to either question is "No", then our best case scenarios are that we have an overpaid albatross taking up a large amount of cap space, or we have a large cap penalty. Either way it will be a lot of wasted cap space.

People worry that we have no one to replace him now. Who will replace him 3 years from now and how will we afford to pay that player if we are paying a large recapture penalty?

Also ask yourself this. If we don't buyout Richards this summer, who else from this team won't be coming back? Stralman? Brassard? Zucc? They're all going to want to get paid. Are we trading Nash? Something has to give.

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05-14-2014, 03:23 PM
  #262
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1 question..

if Richards for his last few years simply refuses to report to camp, but doesnt retire. can the rangers suspend him (wink wink) have his cap hit come off the books, and not have the cap recapture penalty?

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05-14-2014, 05:11 PM
  #263
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I think it's absolutely asinine that these contracts (Lecavalier, Hossa, BR, etc...) are penalized like this for contracts that occurred before the CBA and were mutually agreed on by GM's (ie... owners) and players.

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05-14-2014, 05:14 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
I think it's absolutely asinine that these contracts (Lecavalier, Hossa, BR, etc...) are penalized like this for contracts that occurred before the CBA and were mutually agreed on by GM's (ie... owners) and players.
Not sure what point you're trying to make. The Richards contract was only three years ago - everyone knew the contract and cap rules when Sather agreed to give Richards this contract.

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05-14-2014, 05:16 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I understand all that. I think the front office still will say, "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it" because Richards makes them better now. My point is, I dont think it is a given AT ALL that they are as concerned about recapture as this board is.
Valid points, and I'm inclined to agree.

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05-14-2014, 05:16 PM
  #266
SixGoalieSystem
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Not sure what point you're trying to make. The Richards contract was only three years ago - everyone knew the contract and cap rules when Sather agreed to give Richards this contract.
The cap advantage recapture penalty was introduced with the new CBA.

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05-14-2014, 05:19 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by SixGoalieSystem View Post
The cap advantage recapture penalty was introduced with the new CBA.
Gotcha

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05-14-2014, 05:21 PM
  #268
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Have to buy him out. No choice. Strictly business, nothing personal.

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05-14-2014, 05:22 PM
  #269
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Seems like the younger guys view Richards as a leader.

Sather will not step down this summer, and we are in "Win-Now" mode. Maybe they will keep Richards and trade Nash.

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05-14-2014, 05:30 PM
  #270
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Some facts...Richards has become the de facto captain of this team...Sather will be gone sooner rather than later and he is all about win now...the cap recapture is a big issue. Of course, if Richards continues to play for another team he could become one of those Islander specials -- a salary just to get to the floor.

I'm in the camp that the decision is a long ways off. Long way as in a couple of more playoff rounds.

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05-14-2014, 05:32 PM
  #271
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I'm fairly certain Nash isn't going anywhere. Not being traded and isn't being bought out.

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05-14-2014, 05:44 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverdale View Post
Seems like the younger guys view Richards as a leader.

Sather will not step down this summer, and we are in "Win-Now" mode. Maybe they will keep Richards and trade Nash.
For depth or star for star?

Maybe we can trade him for a guy like Spezza

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05-14-2014, 06:29 PM
  #273
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1 question..

if Richards for his last few years simply refuses to report to camp, but doesnt retire. can the rangers suspend him (wink wink) have his cap hit come off the books, and not have the cap recapture penalty?
I was thinking along these lines too, or in about 3 years we trade Richards and a first to a cap floor team for '3rd line wing' and a 4th rounder. Cap floor team just keeps richards as a healthy scratch every game and gets his cap hit while paying comparatively nothing.

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05-15-2014, 09:16 AM
  #274
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I was thinking along these lines too, or in about 3 years we trade Richards and a first to a cap floor team for '3rd line wing' and a 4th rounder. Cap floor team just keeps richards as a healthy scratch every game and gets his cap hit while paying comparatively nothing.
holy **** that is awesome

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05-15-2014, 09:19 AM
  #275
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Some facts...Richards has become the de facto captain of this team...Sather will be gone sooner rather than later and he is all about win now...the cap recapture is a big issue. Of course, if Richards continues to play for another team he could become one of those Islander specials -- a salary just to get to the floor.

I'm in the camp that the decision is a long ways off. Long way as in a couple of more playoff rounds.
Link please - especially since you stated this as fact.

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