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Our Defense Core - Who stays, who goes?

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01-15-2014, 06:49 AM
  #1
hockeyfan2k11
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Our Defense Core - Who stays, who goes?

Subban
Markov
Gorges
Emelin
Diaz
Murray
Bouillion
Drewiskie



Pateryn
Beaulieu
Tinordi

Bouillion and Murray will be gone. I see the Bergie stupidly re-signing Diaz. Gorges and Emelin are locked up. Markov and PK will get new contracts.

So what does our D look like going into next year? It's in terrible shape right now.

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01-15-2014, 07:00 AM
  #2
L4br3cqu3
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Beside Bouillon and Murray, IMO it's Gorges that needs to go, too limited, skill-wise, his shot blocking is huge, but he has trouble making a decent pass from our zone, which scraps our transition more often than not, he's not very big, nor very physical, and our next wave of D prospects are mainly LD (Beaulieu, Tinordi), and we'll have to make place for then someday. Now, since he's a 'character' guy, I wonder if Bergevin will ever trade him, but oh well...


Last edited by L4br3cqu3: 01-15-2014 at 07:08 AM.
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01-15-2014, 07:06 AM
  #3
hockeyfan2k11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasculio View Post
Beside Bouillon and Murray, IMO it's Gorges that needs to go, too limited, skill-wise, his shot blocking is huge, but he has trouble making a decent pass from our zone, which scraps our transition more often than not, he's not very big, nor very physical, and our next wave of D prospects are mainly LD (Beaulieu, Tinordi), and we'll have to make place for then sooner someday. Now, since he's a 'character' guy, I w8nder if Bergevin will ever trade him, but oh well...
I think it's obvious that Gorges should be the 1st guy to go but I don't see that happening. I think he will stupidly get the C so he's not going anywhere for a while IMO.

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01-15-2014, 07:10 AM
  #4
MathMan
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Diaz is actually pretty good; he just can't look good now, trying to carry Douglas Murray on his back, but he was fine as a 4th D-man with Gorges.

What the Habs needed, and still need, is a defenseman who can push Bouillon out of the lineup, preferably a RD who can push Emelin to the third pair's LD. With pairings like Markov-Subban, Gorges-Diaz, Emelin-someone (or Gorges-someone, Emelin-Diaz), the Habs would be in pretty good shape. They don't even have to get a world-beater, a good-quality third-pairing guy would be enough.

Instead Murray's dragging down the whole unit, Emelin has been up-and-down, and now they're burying Gorges and Subban to preserve the other pairings so much that even PK has been sinking.

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01-15-2014, 07:29 AM
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FlyingKostitsyn
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Wow, the hate is strong on Gorges today

Imho he's far from the worst, even if he could and should play better. We need to get a top4 defensemen for the second pairing and put back Markov and Subban together. Anything to take ice time away from Bouillon and Murray while limiting Diaz and Gorges to more limited roles.

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01-15-2014, 07:44 AM
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gillyguzzler
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The top 4 is evident and expensive - Markov, Subban, Emelin and Gorges. That's about 22M right there. My opinion is that they should go with youth for the bottom three so Tinordi, Beaulieu and Pateryn should be given a shot.

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01-15-2014, 07:49 AM
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hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Wow, the hate is strong on Gorges today

Imho he's far from the worst, even if he could and should play better. We need to get a top4 defensemen for the second pairing and put back Markov and Subban together. Anything to take ice time away from Bouillon and Murray while limiting Diaz and Gorges to more limited roles.
It's not hate. I don't think he is valuable to this team. Are you a hater for thinking Bouillion and Murray are not strong players? No. Just realistic.

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01-15-2014, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
The top 4 is evident and expensive - Markov, Subban, Emelin and Gorges. That's about 22M right there. My opinion is that they should go with youth for the bottom three so Tinordi, Beaulieu and Pateryn should be given a shot.
22M on the top 4 IMO is way too much for what you get. Emelin and Gorges at this point are NOT top 4 dmen.

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01-15-2014, 08:17 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Wow, the hate is strong on Gorges today

Imho he's far from the worst, even if he could and should play better. We need to get a top4 defensemen for the second pairing and put back Markov and Subban together. Anything to take ice time away from Bouillon and Murray while limiting Diaz and Gorges to more limited roles.
We hate Gorges cause we think he's expendable ? What ?


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01-15-2014, 08:22 AM
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Still wish we could've seen Emelin come back before we signed him to that deal. Losing faith in MB..

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01-15-2014, 08:23 AM
  #11
ClasslessGuy
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- Subban
Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Tinordi
Diaz
Beaulieu

Defensive stud on the first pair

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01-15-2014, 08:27 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Subban
Markov
Gorges
Emelin
Diaz
Murray
Bouillion
Drewiskie



Pateryn
Beaulieu
Tinordi

Bouillion and Murray will be gone. I see the Bergie stupidly re-signing Diaz. Gorges and Emelin are locked up. Markov and PK will get new contracts.

So what does our D look like going into next year? It's in terrible shape right now.
Subban-Markov-Emelin is fine in the top 4. Gorges needs to be relegated to the bottom pairing. Diaz, Bouillon, Murray and Drewiske need to go. I'd ride with Beaulieu and Tinordi next year if we can't land someone like Girardi off free agency.

I'd rather Tinordi and Beaulieu make mistakes and learn at the NHL level than watch Murray screen his own goalie and get around the ice like cold molasses, Bouillon ruin every offensive cycle he's a part of and play the PP, and Diaz shoot the puck with a plastic stick and avoid the boards like it is housing a mutant form of the bubonic plague.

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01-15-2014, 08:30 AM
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FlyingKostitsyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasculio View Post
We hate Gorges cause we think he's expendable ? What ?

Have you seen that other beautiful thread that popped up last night about Gorges? You might say he's expendable (which is more true than ever before I'll admit) but others don't hesitate call him expletives.

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01-15-2014, 08:36 AM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Have you seen that other beautiful thread that popped up last night about Gorges? You might say he's expendable (which is more true than ever before I'll admit) but others don't hesitate call him expletives.
For such a mediocre defenseman, he talks an awful lot in that room.

Mediocre players who spout off in the dressing room get tuned out pretty quick. If "let's go red" counts for leadership then... we're in serious trouble. There's no way this guy should be considered captain material and I'd be just fine with dealing him away provided a solid blueliner came back the other way.

Not a hater but he should keep his mouth shut.

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01-15-2014, 09:05 AM
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Subban-markov
Emelin-diaz(yes Diaz)
Tinordi-pateryn
Beaulieu
Drewiske

No more gorges or murray or bou bou please.

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01-15-2014, 09:10 AM
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hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
For such a mediocre defenseman, he talks an awful lot in that room.

Mediocre players who spout off in the dressing room get tuned out pretty quick. If "let's go red" counts for leadership then... we're in serious trouble. There's no way this guy should be considered captain material and I'd be just fine with dealing him away provided a solid blueliner came back the other way.

Not a hater but he should keep his mouth shut.
He will be the next captain.

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01-15-2014, 09:13 AM
  #17
JLP
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I'd like ~

Stay: Markov, Subban, Emelin, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn (add a 2nd pairing guy)

Go: Cube, Diaz, Murray, Gorges

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01-15-2014, 09:26 AM
  #18
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If there is any truth to the Brière for Volchenkov rumor (well its more of a case point), i'd trade Diaz for a pick, let Murray and Bouillon go.

Subban Markov
Emelin Gorges
Volchenkov Diaz/Tinordi/Beaulieu/Drewiske

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01-15-2014, 09:27 AM
  #19
Blind Gardien
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Subban, Markov, and Gorges are obvious keepers for me. I'd like for Emelin to emerge as a keeper too, and I think his contract essentially locks him in whether he emerges or not. So that's a clear foursome.

Past them... I could take or leave Diaz... it all depends on the new salary and what other options are out there. He continues to be surprisingly adequate and versatile. We probably won't know what other options are out there until d-day has already passed on keeping or dropping Diaz, though, so as long as the price was right, I'd play it safe and just keep him anyway.

I'd like to get a better version of Murray. I like his size and physicality. He has surprised me at how poor his decision-making is, though. At his price/term, he's still ok as a #6/7 guy, but it would really be nice to have somebody with size and physicality who was higher up in the rotation and could be counted on to play every game, and more minutes.

I don't want anything to do with Bouillon going forward. He does still hold his own on the ice as another #6/7 guy. It's just too frustrating to see Therrien overuse him.

Drewiske is probably an adequate #7/8 guy. He's the guy to turn to if the kids aren't ready, I guess. Better to have him as a pressbox spare than one of the younger kids, if it came to that.

Mostly I'd be looking to upgrade on Murray. Murray himself (or another depth guy like him) could then replace Bouillon. I'd lean towards erring on the side of maximum development time for the young defensemen, and pencil in another season in Hamilton for all of them, with injury recall cameos, as per this year.

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01-15-2014, 09:33 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Subban
Markov
Gorges
Emelin
Diaz
Murray
Bouillion
Drewiskie



Pateryn
Beaulieu
Tinordi

Bouillion and Murray will be gone. I see the Bergie stupidly re-signing Diaz. Gorges and Emelin are locked up. Markov and PK will get new contracts.

So what does our D look like going into next year? It's in terrible shape right now.
If you think our defense is in terrible shpe you haven't watched any Toronto games this year.

I'd say the defense is above average. The big problem this yaer is too many games it's been 1-2 lines contributing, last year it was 3 or 4 a lot of nights. In the NHL if the opposition has posession 55-60% of the time well it's harder to score goals defending.

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01-15-2014, 09:37 AM
  #21
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
It's not hate. I don't think he is valuable to this team. Are you a hater for thinking Bouillion and Murray are not strong players? No. Just realistic.
How is keeping pucks out of our net not valuable?

Winning NHL games is scoring goals and keeping them out of your net, so he is very good at one part and not as good at the other...still quite valuable.

The defense and goaltending hasn't been an issue most games...it's the forwards not scoring or carrying enough of the play. We rely too much on Subban and Markov to generate goals, more of it needs to come from the guys up front.

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01-15-2014, 09:38 AM
  #22
hockeyfan2k11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
If you think our defense is in terrible shpe you haven't watched any Toronto games this year.

I'd say the defense is above average. The big problem this yaer is too many games it's been 1-2 lines contributing, last year it was 3 or 4 a lot of nights. In the NHL if the opposition has posession 55-60% of the time well it's harder to score goals defending.
Who cares about the Leafs? How do you improve when you use bad teams as a measuring stick?

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01-15-2014, 09:53 AM
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Subban and Markov are great to have in your top-4. Not many teams have a 1-2 punch like that. So it's Gorges/Emelin that we'll want to upgrade. Both are top-4 D-men, but they don't complement Subban/Markov very well. Emelin is too weak in his own zone, and Gorges doesn't bring much besides shot blocking. Having one in the top-4 is good, having both not so much.

With the money committed to Gorges/Emelin, you can't have one play on the 3rd pairing, so that means packaging one of them with a top prospect and/or a pick and get a high end #3 guy. Which one goes probably doesn't matter much, Gorges is the more versatile of the two and also the guy other teams would probably be more interested in. Though if Emelin ever puts it all together he'd be much better of the two.

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01-15-2014, 09:57 AM
  #24
habdynasty
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Originally Posted by Jrham15 View Post
Subban-markov
Emelin-diaz(yes Diaz)
Tinordi-pateryn
Beaulieu
Drewiske

No more gorges or murray or bou bou please.
Can't disagree with this

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01-15-2014, 10:04 AM
  #25
Andrighetto Fabolous
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Didn't Robidas mention this past summer he'd be interested in returning to Montreal to end his career? Wouldn't mind him on the third pairing if he can back for cheap, $1.5 - 2 million and we were certain he's healthy. Obviously someone younger would be ideal but with so many young defense coming up it'd be better to get someone on a short-term contract.

Markov - Subban
Emelin - Gorges
Tinordi/Beaulieu - Robidas
Drewiske

Best case is both Beaulieu and Tinordi impress during the year and they're both in our top 6 by the end of next year.

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