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Our Defense Core - Who stays, who goes?

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Old
01-15-2014, 11:56 PM
  #51
DAChampion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Oduya Ference Mitchell Scuderi Salvador Fayne were top 4 guys on teams that got to the cup final. Goirges is easily as good as those guys.
Scuderi was a lot better than Gorges, though maybe he has declined by now.

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Old
01-16-2014, 12:24 AM
  #52
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As I said in the Bulldogs thread, I really enjoyed to watch the Dogs blueline lately, especially Beaulieu Tinordi and Pateryn, they were pretty impressive in the games I watched, Beaulieu was flying on the ice while being more responsible defensively and physically engaged.. The Tinordi Pateryn pairing was awesome as well, I feel all 3 have serious NHL potential at this point and not very far from the big league..

What I would personally do.. I would try to trade Diaz's rights this summer to at least get a pick for, if we cant get anything for his rights, too bad and move on, let him go to open a spot for a kid.. Diaz is a decent puckmover but can be replaced..

Of course, you re-sign Subban for 8 years and you pry he doesnt ask for more than 8.5M per season..

Same thing about Markov, you have to re-sign him.. I would offer him more money per year but try to make it a 2 years deal no more.. I dont see it as a problem for him since he will likely get offered alot of money from the KHL when his next contract expires, even at 38 years old..

So you let Diaz Bouillon Murray go, you then have Subban Markov Gorges Emelin Drewski under contract, what leave 1 or 2 open spots for rookies (Beaulieu Tinordi Pateryn) depending if MB want 6 or 7 defensemen around the team.. that way the kids will have plenty of opportunities to play games in the NHL and prove to the direction that they belong there.. Perfect scenario, all 3 kids do well, what would give Bergevin several options such as trading Gorges at some point for offensive help or a great draft pick..

While our fowards depth is very thin right now in the farm, thats quite the opposite on D, I could see all 3 guys with the Habs in the near future..

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Old
01-18-2014, 11:07 PM
  #53
hockeyfan2k11
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Keep Beaulieu and Tinordi up and trim the fat.

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01-19-2014, 12:13 AM
  #54
Lebowski
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Keep:

Subban
Markov
Gorges

Trading chips:

Diaz only if a decent offer presents itself. If all we can get is some mid-late round pick, I rather just keep him as a #5, a role at which he's actually pretty good.
Emelin. He actually has quite the reputation around the league, or around the fans at least... I think he could fetch us a pretty decent return.

Let go:

Murray
Bouillon

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Scuderi was a lot better than Gorges, though maybe he has declined by now.
Not really. Really similar types of defensemen. Neither is clearly ahead of the other when compared prime on prime. Gorges is a good SAH defenseman and would be a #4 on most good teams, a #3 on some more depleted teams such as ourselves. He's getting under-appreciated around here. Steady defensive players, shot-blocking machines that bring good leadership skills while actually offering a decent first pass aren't as much of a hot commodity around the league as some people may think.

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Old
01-19-2014, 02:37 AM
  #55
Kimota
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I think that Scuderi and Lovejoy are the two Ds we should have gotten last summer.

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Old
01-19-2014, 07:04 AM
  #56
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I think I'm getting closer to accepting the fact that we should trade Markov for a top end defensive prospect and a high level pick, depending on the quality of the D man coming back.

He's getting up there in age.. he will only decline and this defense core is so pitiful right now that it will take a few more years to fix it to the point that it can compete in the play-offs.. By that time, Markov will be staring at the sunset in Russia.

Maybe a 1st and Gormley from Phoenix; Pouliot and a 2nd from Pittsburgh or Despres and a 1st, Vatanen and a 1st from Anaheim or Hampus Lindholm plus 4th round pick.

Target play-off bound teams that are looking for a boost on the PP and puck moving from the back end. I think they would be more than willing to part with a high end pick or high end defensive prospect to improve their chances in their current cup window.

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Old
01-19-2014, 07:48 AM
  #57
68
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Stays
PK Subban

Goes
I don't give a ****

Trade for good pieces
A. Markov

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Old
01-19-2014, 07:58 AM
  #58
hockeyfan2k11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 View Post
Stays
PK Subban

Goes
I don't give a ****

Trade for good pieces
A. Markov
Wouldn't even be mad with this. Would keep Tinordi, Beaulieu...

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Old
01-19-2014, 11:10 AM
  #59
Adam Spylo
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For next season I'd like the following d-core:

Markov
Subban
Emelin
Tinordi
Beaulieu
Pateryn

I'd trade Diaz at the deadline for whatever is offered. Gorges also needs to go as his cap hit is too high. Maybe a trade for Brouwer which would make sense for both teams. Either at the deadline or after the season. I wouldn't offer Murray and Bouillon a contract. It's time to give Beaulieu, Tinordi and Pateryn playing time at the NHL level.

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Old
01-19-2014, 11:23 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Maybe a 1st and Gormley from Phoenix; Pouliot and a 2nd from Pittsburgh or Despres and a 1st, Vatanen and a 1st from Anaheim or Hampus Lindholm plus 4th round pick.
Don't share that with some of those fanbases, you'll be mocked.

Markov is coming off a bad game but he's still a very key part of the team. There is no one to replace what he provides. I'd keep him around a couple more years and hope Beaulieu and company progress enough to replace Markov.

Emelin on the other hand... signing him WHILE HE WAS INJURED to a big contract does not help Bergevin's resume. There was no reason at all not to wait and see how he played coming off the injury. I bet if he was still unsigned now they could have got him back at a lower number and fewer years. Otherwise they could let him walk. Bad decision. No one would want him at his current price and current level of play.

Gorges bothers me for some reason. Not just his play, considering he's neither big nor physical nor skilled. He brings something I suppose, some defensive awareness and shot blocking with some annoying "rah rah" leadership. But he handles the puck like a grenade and is overpaid on a long-term deal.

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Old
01-19-2014, 12:00 PM
  #61
Andrighetto Fabolous
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Markov - Subban
Beaulieu - Gorges
Emelin - Diaz

Markov and Subban should never of been separated so put them back together, Subban's speed helps for Markov's pinching/mistakes.

Let Beaulieu play already, having Gorges to back him up defensively will help a lot. Obviously Beaulieu will make mistakes but having another guy on defence who can actually make a pass will be huge.

Emelin needs to be back on the left side and him and Diaz played very well together their first year on the Habs, I'd like to see Tinordi given a chance but Emelin needs a serviceable guy with him until he gets back on track.

Get Beaulieu into the lineup full-time the rest of the year this way we can let Tinordi/Pateryn battle out for the last defence spot next year and not have to worry about having 2 rookies in our top 6.

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Old
01-19-2014, 12:08 PM
  #62
dkdanielkli
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Markov-Subban
Emelin-BIG BUDDY(4TH D)
Tinordi-Gorges

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Old
01-19-2014, 12:13 PM
  #63
loudi94
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Gorges has value to a struggling team like Calgary or Edmonton. On a team that wants to go to the next level, he's a number 6 D. He is replaceable and a pretty good chip to bargain with.

Emelin is perplexing. He was great last year but is a pylon now. Fix the problem by putting him back on his proper side or get him out of here.

Markov is a keeper at a reduced price and radually reduced role. So smart and is the number one reason PK has been able to elevate his game. No one on the farm or upcoming UFA that can replace him.

The rest of the current group not mentioned are expendable.

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Old
01-19-2014, 12:14 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I think that Scuderi and Lovejoy are the two Ds we should have gotten last summer.
Lovejoy has one of the greatest names in the nhl would love to have in a habs uniform just so I could by a jersey with his name on it.

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Old
01-19-2014, 12:15 PM
  #65
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Glad Beaulieu did well yesterday. Upgrading the defense will come from Hamilton.

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Old
01-19-2014, 12:34 PM
  #66
WeThreeKings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Count of DannyKristo View Post
Don't share that with some of those fanbases, you'll be mocked.

Markov is coming off a bad game but he's still a very key part of the team. There is no one to replace what he provides. I'd keep him around a couple more years and hope Beaulieu and company progress enough to replace Markov.

Emelin on the other hand... signing him WHILE HE WAS INJURED to a big contract does not help Bergevin's resume. There was no reason at all not to wait and see how he played coming off the injury. I bet if he was still unsigned now they could have got him back at a lower number and fewer years. Otherwise they could let him walk. Bad decision. No one would want him at his current price and current level of play.

Gorges bothers me for some reason. Not just his play, considering he's neither big nor physical nor skilled. He brings something I suppose, some defensive awareness and shot blocking with some annoying "rah rah" leadership. But he handles the puck like a grenade and is overpaid on a long-term deal.
Just like we would have mocked anyone proposing Gomez for McDonagh/Higgins.

Bouwmeester got a 1st, Cundari and Berra from the Blues. No reason to think Markov can't get a similar return.

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Old
01-19-2014, 12:36 PM
  #67
lou4gehrig
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I think you meant Defense Corps and not Defense Core.

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Old
01-19-2014, 01:19 PM
  #68
Bad Natey
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Volchenkov?????

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Old
01-19-2014, 01:34 PM
  #69
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I think the team really need a goo top 4 D, ideally before the trade deadline.

Bogosian, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Garrison, Girardi, Myers, Ericsson, Hamonic, Staal, Coburn, Giordano, Hjalmarsson, Hejda, Dillon, Michalek, Vlasic, Cowen, Edler.

I don't who are available in thoses guys, but that's what the team need.

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Old
01-19-2014, 01:37 PM
  #70
Chris Cutter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I think I'm getting closer to accepting the fact that we should trade Markov for a top end defensive prospect and a high level pick, depending on the quality of the D man coming back.

He's getting up there in age.. he will only decline and this defense core is so pitiful right now that it will take a few more years to fix it to the point that it can compete in the play-offs.. By that time, Markov will be staring at the sunset in Russia.

Maybe a 1st and Gormley from Phoenix; Pouliot and a 2nd from Pittsburgh or Despres and a 1st, Vatanen and a 1st from Anaheim or Hampus Lindholm plus 4th round pick.

Target play-off bound teams that are looking for a boost on the PP and puck moving from the back end. I think they would be more than willing to part with a high end pick or high end defensive prospect to improve their chances in their current cup window.
I would absolutely love Gormley in a hab uniform, smart player all around.

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Old
01-19-2014, 05:01 PM
  #71
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I think the time for us to try and win a cup with Markov has come and gone.

If MB is serious to build through the draft, I would seriously look at moving Markov at this trade deadline for young nhl forward with size and top 6 potential like mcginn or similar forward prospect + a 1st in both case.

Run with Gorges-Subban, Emelin-diaz, Beaulieu- murray/bouillon/pateryn for the rest of this year. Swap gorges and emelin at time to see how emelin does on first pair with subban.

Then if emelin-subban did good and tinordi looks ready, in off season or the 14-15 trade deadline move gorges for more young nhl forward or almost ready forward prospect with size and skill.

So that by next season or at least by 14-15 trade deadline we have a defense of Emelin-subban, tinordi-diaz, beaulieu-pateryn, any ufa signing, d trade or surprise d prospect can replace the weakest link.

At forward, gio, briere, bourque got replaced by the young forward with size we got in the markov and gorges trade and we still have whatever prospect we got we the extra pick from those trade also.

Hurts a little bit short term, but sure helps long term and we are not going anywhere in the short term anyway.

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