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What happened to our offensive?

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Old
01-15-2014, 05:46 PM
  #76
Noob616
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
But it also assured us 35min of not having possession.
Eh.. not entirely true.

The only pairing that assures us of not having possession is whichever pairing Murray is on. Gorges-Diaz was a fine second pairing but that had to be broken up so we could continue dressing 11 forwards I guess. This team would be substantially better with Markov-Subban Gorges-Diaz as the top 4 until Emelin can sort his game out.

As mentioned though, it's all moot if elite puckmovers like Markov and Subban are being told to chip it in off the glass.

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01-15-2014, 05:48 PM
  #77
Andy
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
That's an interesting comment coming from you...Considering how much you've defended DD in the past (if I'm not mistaken).

Do you feel DD should be contributing more defensively?
Eller has been producing chances, the problem is that if he is not the one scoring on his line, no one else is. Just yesterday he set up Gallagher 3 times, once resulting in a disallowed goal, he also sent a pass to Gionta that gave him a partial break, Gionta shot at the goalies crest.

Even over the past few games we've seen Eller set up Prust, Moen, Briere, Bourque, multiple times, but none of have been able to cash in.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, three of the 7 goals that were disallowed recently had Eller contributing to the play.

He's creating chances at even strength, but like was the case when Plekanec played with them - even Desharnais - hard to get points when playing with Briere, Bourque, Prust and Moen, especially when you are not even given an offensive role.

As Kriss E pointed out, every time he's been given one of Galchenyuk and Gallagher, Eller produces at ES at a respectable top 6 pace.

Also, I don't see how people can expect Eller to put up 40+ points this season without powerplay time. Netting 35-40 ES points while playing with a revolving door of bottom 6 wingers in a non-offensive role is a hard thing to do.

It's one thing if Eller was given all the offensive responsibilities, he hasn't, thus it is disingenuous for Monctonscout to say DD is producing and Eller isn't. It takes no account of context and is entirely misleading.

The important thing is that he has been creating chances, had he not, then I would be worried. Give him an offensive role and he will produce.

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01-15-2014, 07:25 PM
  #78
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Its the system. Simple as that.

Fire Therrien.

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Old
01-16-2014, 12:46 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by bipolarhabfan View Post
The team has scored 1 goal or less 17 times this season. That is a third of all the games they have played. And half our games, we have scored 2 goals or less. I am surprised where we are the standings given this lack of scoring. Personally, I think it is a lack of talent and no depth.

We have 15.8 million, out of a total of 34.9 million budget for forwards, tied up in Briere, Gionta, Deharnais, and Bourque. This makes up 45% of the cap for forwards. They have produced 26 goals and 38 assists for a total of 64 points. Not nearly good enough for such a large chunk of cap space. In fact, it is brutal. Players who make this much should be putting up seasons of 60 points, not 35 to 40.

I will put this out there but our highest producing player on offense, Pacioretty, ranks 97th in the league for points.

EDIT: The fact that we do not have a good #3 D has not helped our offense as well. There is a lot of work that needs to be done with this team.
Good points. Cuts pretty much to the bone in terms of what our immediate problems are, for sure.

Compounding the problem is that 3 of those 4 forwards don't kill penalties and are subpar defensively at even strength. We're investing a lot of money in very little return at either end of the ice.

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Old
01-16-2014, 12:59 PM
  #80
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Its the system. Simple as that.

Fire Therrien.
The system has hurt us for sure. We lack a true superstar up front and that hurts us but we've got enough offense that we should be doing a hell of a lot better than we are.

Some poster looked up that Pac is our best scorer (having missed several games) and ranks 97th on the list?

That's an embarrassment.

Edit: (Max is 90th for forwards) Subban is actually our highest scorer tied for 62nd.

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01-16-2014, 02:27 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by bipolarhabfan View Post
The team has scored 1 goal or less 17 times this season. That is a third of all the games they have played. And half our games, we have scored 2 goals or less. I am surprised where we are the standings given this lack of scoring. Personally, I think it is a lack of talent and no depth.

We have 15.8 million, out of a total of 34.9 million budget for forwards, tied up in Briere, Gionta, Deharnais, and Bourque. This makes up 45% of the cap for forwards. They have produced 26 goals and 38 assists for a total of 64 points. Not nearly good enough for such a large chunk of cap space. In fact, it is brutal. Players who make this much should be putting up seasons of 60 points, not 35 to 40.

I will put this out there but our highest producing player on offense, Pacioretty, ranks 97th in the league for points.

EDIT: The fact that we do not have a good #3 D has not helped our offense as well. There is a lot of work that needs to be done with this team.
Good points. There are people here who think we're so close. We are far.

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01-16-2014, 02:33 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The system has hurt us for sure. We lack a true superstar up front and that hurts us but we've got enough offense that we should be doing a hell of a lot better than we are.

Some poster looked up that Pac is our best scorer (having missed several games) and ranks 97th on the list?

That's an embarrassment.

Edit: (Max is 90th for forwards) Subban is actually our highest scorer tied for 62nd.
Patches is also tied for 14th in goals despite missing ~10 games. Assists really mean absolutely nothing when it comes to winning games. We're 21st in goals per game which is a problem, though not a huge one as two other playoff teams are below us and a team like Ottawa are top 10.

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01-16-2014, 02:52 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by bipolarhabfan View Post
The team has scored 1 goal or less 17 times this season. That is a third of all the games they have played. And half our games, we have scored 2 goals or less. I am surprised where we are the standings given this lack of scoring. Personally, I think it is a lack of talent and no depth.

We have 15.8 million, out of a total of 34.9 million budget for forwards, tied up in Briere, Gionta, Deharnais, and Bourque. This makes up 45% of the cap for forwards. They have produced 26 goals and 38 assists for a total of 64 points. Not nearly good enough for such a large chunk of cap space. In fact, it is brutal. Players who make this much should be putting up seasons of 60 points, not 35 to 40.

I will put this out there but our highest producing player on offense, Pacioretty, ranks 97th in the league for points.

EDIT: The fact that we do not have a good #3 D has not helped our offense as well. There is a lot of work that needs to be done with this team.
Yet, with pretty much the same roster last year the only teams that outscored us was the ones with Crosby-Malkin-Neal, Toews-Kane-Sharp-Hossa, MSL-Stamkos-Vinny. We were 5th for ES GF.
With only one game in difference, we had 30more goals at even strength this time last year.

I mean, the only difference really up front is Ryder, and I don't think you're going to argue he's the reason for such a drastic drop in production (actually, both Ryder and Briere have the same ES production).

So, I don't think it's that.
And you named the guys, add them to MaxPac-Plek-Eller-Gally-Galla, that's a lot of depth. There's really no reason for us not to be able to score at least 2 ES goals every second game. I mean come on, don't tell me we don't have the horses to score more.

It really all comes down to player usage. I think the reason our team is still high in the standings is precisely because we have so much talent. I think talent is the only thing that's saving us right now. We're just too good to drop very low in the standings.
But our coach has messed up the roles and has the team playing in a way that they really shouldn't.

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Old
01-16-2014, 02:58 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
Patches is also tied for 14th in goals despite missing ~10 games. Assists really mean absolutely nothing when it comes to winning games. We're 21st in goals per game which is a problem, though not a huge one as two other playoff teams are below us and a team like Ottawa are top 10.
Most goals have assists attached to them, so yes, assists play a big role when it comes to winning games too. That's why they're counted.
MaxPac plays on a line where one guy parks himself in front of the net, gets little points. Another is constantly looking to make a pass, has few goals, way more assists. The last one is a shooter, he shill shoot from anywhere as often as possible, wicked shot, he has 20 goals and barely any assists.

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Old
01-16-2014, 03:02 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Most goals have assists attached to them, so yes, assists play a big role when it comes to winning games too. That's why they're counted.
MaxPac plays on a line where one guy parks himself in front of the net, gets little points. Another is constantly looking to make a pass, has few goals, way more assists. The last one is a shooter, he shill shoot from anywhere as often as possible, wicked shot, he has 20 goals and barely any assists.
Doesn't sound like a very versatile line

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01-16-2014, 03:02 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yet, with pretty much the same roster last year the only teams that outscored us was the ones with Crosby-Malkin-Neal, Toews-Kane-Sharp-Hossa, MSL-Stamkos-Vinny. We were 5th for ES GF.
With only one game in difference, we had 30more goals at even strength this time last year.

I mean, the only difference really up front is Ryder, and I don't think you're going to argue he's the reason for such a drastic drop in production (actually, both Ryder and Briere have the same ES production).

So, I don't think it's that.
And you named the guys, add them to MaxPac-Plek-Eller-Gally-Galla, that's a lot of depth. There's really no reason for us not to be able to score at least 2 ES goals every second game. I mean come on, don't tell me we don't have the horses to score more.

It really all comes down to player usage. I think the reason our team is still high in the standings is precisely because we have so much talent. I think talent is the only thing that's saving us right now. We're just too good to drop very low in the standings.
But our coach has messed up the roles and has the team playing in a way that they really shouldn't.
Some would say we lack of talent. Player usages is a big thing if you ask me. Since DD is sick, why not try Briere at center of Max and Gallagher? Afraid of the result?

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01-16-2014, 03:04 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
Some would say we lack of talent. Player usages is a big thing if you ask me. Since DD is sick, why not try Briere at center of Max and Gallagher? Afraid of the result?
Because Patches-Eller-Gally looked decent. Eller had a dominant shift, we went on the PP, MT put Briere between Patches and Gally and they **** the bed.

Small sample size, but those two would be better off with a big and physically dominant center.

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01-16-2014, 03:10 PM
  #88
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Our "offensive" is offensive all right.

It's the lethal combo of below-average assets not used to the best of their ability. An argument could be made that changing one of the two should produce more offense however, if Therrien is going to be at the helm for some time still, I'd much rather see Bergevin attempt talent upgrades where he can. Talent tends to outlast coaching tenures.

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01-16-2014, 03:12 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Smoky Thompson View Post
Because Patches-Eller-Gally looked decent. Eller had a dominant shift, we went on the PP, MT put Briere between Patches and Gally and they **** the bed.

Small sample size, but those two would be better off with a big and physically dominant center.
Eller is a beast.

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01-16-2014, 03:13 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
Eller is a beast.
He definitely has an extra gear. I just wish he'd use it more often, because when he does he truly is a beast.

I also wish he'd get the chance to play more on the PP and play with better linemates.

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01-16-2014, 03:21 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
Patches is also tied for 14th in goals despite missing ~10 games. Assists really mean absolutely nothing when it comes to winning games. We're 21st in goals per game which is a problem, though not a huge one as two other playoff teams are below us and a team like Ottawa are top 10.
And this is all well and good except that we don't have another forward in the top 100.

This is not an indictment of Max dude... he's great. But he's missed games and we don't have another forward who can manage to get into the top 100? That's pathetic.

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01-16-2014, 03:22 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Gallagher looked great with Eller. It's mind boggling that Eller isn't given better linemates, he's so strong on the puck and aside from the start of this season he has never really been given a fair shot in a pure offensive role.
Yes, Gallagher really did look much better next to Eller. He seems to mesh with Eller much better than with DD and Patches. I think it would be in our best interest to find someone else to put next to DD and Patches and reunite at least Eller and Gallagher (if not the complete EGG line when Chucky comes back). Gallagher is nothing but a decoy next to the DD-Patches duo(albeit a very believable and efficient one) and he's not used to his full potential there.

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01-16-2014, 03:26 PM
  #93
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Doesn't sound like a very versatile line
Does what it needs to do. But I agree, we need to find a line that can also cook a *****in' spaghetti sauce.

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01-16-2014, 03:32 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by JAVO16 View Post
Does what it needs to do. But I agree, we need to find a line that can also cook a *****in' spaghetti sauce.
As in Patches scores a ton of goals, most of them off the rush. Honestly I think he can be better utilized on a more complete line, but he's on pace for 40ish goals so I won't complain.

Like you said though, this team would be more productive if Gally were taken off that line and reunited with Eller and eventually Chucky. It seems as if we almost all agree on this, which is rare, but for some reason Therrien doesn't see it yet .

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01-16-2014, 03:59 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
Some would say we lack of talent. Player usages is a big thing if you ask me. Since DD is sick, why not try Briere at center of Max and Gallagher? Afraid of the result?
I don't want Briere to center them, I'm happy with Eller doing so. Not surprisingly, they looked good together, and Gallagher also had a center that actually utilized him instead of just looking for MaxPac all the time.

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01-16-2014, 04:01 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Smoky Thompson View Post
As in Patches scores a ton of goals, most of them off the rush. Honestly I think he can be better utilized on a more complete line, but he's on pace for 40ish goals so I won't complain.

Like you said though, this team would be more productive if Gally were taken off that line and reunited with Eller and eventually Chucky. It seems as if we almost all agree on this, which is rare, but for some reason Therrien doesn't see it yet .
MaxPac should be used on a line that doesn't need to be sheltered. He's being used on a 2nd line that we use as our primary offensive one. It's completely upside down.
I mean, if they produced 70-80pts, I get it, but they're not.
We need to create a solid top line that can not only keep up with the opposition's best, but outproduce them too. Plekanec can center that line, MaxPac should be on his wing.

I don't understand how this wasn't addressed yet.

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01-16-2014, 05:29 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Smoky Thompson View Post
Because Patches-Eller-Gally looked decent. Eller had a dominant shift, we went on the PP, MT put Briere between Patches and Gally and they **** the bed.

Small sample size, but those two would be better off with a big and physically dominant center.
Pacioretty needs a playmaker not a guy to cycle the puck for 30 seconds and generate no scoring chances.

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01-16-2014, 06:23 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
MaxPac should be used on a line that doesn't need to be sheltered. He's being used on a 2nd line that we use as our primary offensive one. It's completely upside down.
I mean, if they produced 70-80pts, I get it, but they're not.
We need to create a solid top line that can not only keep up with the opposition's best, but outproduce them too. Plekanec can center that line, MaxPac should be on his wing.

I don't understand how this wasn't addressed yet.
Your best players don't need to play against the best opposition. Just look at the Sedins in Vancouver or the Getzlaf and Perry line in Anaheim which are actually behind the Cogliano-Koivu-Winnik line in terms of Corsi QoC. It's not an unsound strategy to try and let your best players play against weaker competition ( which won't happen consistently throughout a game anyway).

Also,you need to explain why that threshold above which the exploitation line becomes useful is anything but an arbitrary mark. Pacioretty is on pace for 40+ goals and Desharnais could reach 15 considering is pace since his the end of his slump. If they had another depth scorer like Bourque/Brière/etc scoring 20-30 goals with them against weaker opposition, that line would score ~80 goals which is ~30% of the totals goals on which even the best teams are on pace. I think that's an useful contribution either way you cut it. Now, obviously, Gallagher is that guy now and I think he could contribute more to this team on another line, but I don't think that it's outlandish to think that we should be able to find another winger able to produce 20+ on that line in those circumstances. Brière was probably signed to be that guy, but he's failing thoroughly to play the part up until now.

Basically, I don't think that continuing to play Pacioretty with Desharnais while our team keeps the same makeup is such a bad idea and the cause of our offensive woes.

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01-16-2014, 06:38 PM
  #99
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reposting this link in case someone missed it.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...g-away-without

What a piece, you wont see stuff like this in the conventional media.

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01-16-2014, 06:40 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by JAVO16 View Post
Your best players don't need to play against the best opposition. Just look at the Sedins in Vancouver or the Getzlaf and Perry line in Anaheim which are actually behind the Cogliano-Koivu-Winnik line in terms of Corsi QoC. It's not an unsound strategy to try and let your best players play against weaker competition ( which won't happen consistently throughout a game anyway).
That's fine and dandy during the regular season. In fact, it's great during the regular season. Perry and Getzlaf are ripping it up and Anaheim, like last season, will be a favorite going into the playoffs. But what happens when Perry and Getzlaf have to play vs Zetterberg and Datsyuk, or Toews and Hossa in a 7 game series? They'll get shutdown offensively and their team will lose.

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