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What happened to our offensive?

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Old
01-17-2014, 10:28 AM
  #126
Andy
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Players have to find a way no matter what.

Eller isn't producing because of his linemates? Then why is Plek producing while playing against tougher opposition and playing with the supposed-to-be-finished Gionta and whoever? Because he plays good and smart, that's why.

Eller has a better skillset than Plek, imo. But he isn't as smart in his decision making and positioning. Heck, even Desharnais is cutting more pass than Eller. And Eller is an average passer at best.

Stop putting everything on the coaches. Good players find a way. Last year Eller started on the fourth line and was even left in the stands for one game. Then he came back and the sames coaches gave him more and more icetime and responsabilities because he was playing well. Period. And it is not like if the coaches didn't like him this year. He's still given big responsabilities and the coaches recognize his effort level. But it is true than no winger is helping him much right now. Like any player in his situation, he has to find a way to produce. That's it.

Last game, I think Therrien made an interesting bold move when putting him on the wing. Eller couldn't do anything at center because the wingers were atrocious. The only way to use Eller to some effect was to put him on the wing. I'm sure it won't be repeat unless the wingers start playing that bad again.

And it all fall on the d-group. Given the below average talent on the wings, the offense has to come from the d-men a lot more, with good passes off the rush. But Subban is not in a very good sequence right now (nothing to be worry of) and Markov has slowed down (which had to be expected). All the other d-men of the team are below average in that department.
That's actually not true. ELler was brought back into the lineup last season because of an injury to another player and actually only moved up in the lineup again do to an injury. Therrien didn't hand him anything. He wasn't even in his plans. Once Eller was producing in the role, Therrien couldn't justify putting him back. But Therrien didn't put him there because he wanted, but because he had no choice due to an injured player (I forget who).

Dude, no one has produced this season with Bourque, Prust and Briere (only Plekanec has produced with Briere). Not even Desharnais was producing when playing with Bourque and Briere.

Everytime Eller plays with one of Gallagher or Galchenyuk he produces at a decent pace. Considering the fact that he has barely been given consistent PP time over the last month and a half, expecting him to produce at a 50 point pace at ES with Bourque and Briere now that Galchenyuk is injured is dreaming in technicolor. He played one game with Pacioretty and Gallagher and looked more than fine offensively, creating several chances.No way Eller gets 40 points this season playing in a tertiary offensive role with no PP time.

And regardless of the narrative on this board, Gionta is not a useless player offensively. He might not be scoring as much, but he still contributes with his yeoman-like work ethic.

Everytime Eller is given an extended period in an offensive role, he produces, that's what's important.


Last edited by Andy: 01-17-2014 at 10:35 AM.
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Old
01-17-2014, 10:33 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Jeez, I wonder why...
Me too.

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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
...last year he was given the linemates and the proper starts to succeed...this year, he's, well, given an interchanging grab-bag of linemates and put out to "defend da deficit"...big difference...there's blame to be had, but it doesn't start with Eller...
He was given the same this year and the results are not there. Plekanec gets the top lines, Eller's most common linemates have been Gallagher and Galchenyuk, part of the reason for so many changes is he isn't producing and he isn't getting his wingers producing either, last year he was driving his line.

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Originally Posted by CH25 View Post
I don't get Therrien and his assistants. They had everything working fine Why oh why did they decide change everything and make stupid decision after stupid decision. Especially with line compositions and player usage. Some things just don't make sense at all with the way this coaching staff functions at time.
They have mostly the same players and the same system.

It's some of the players that have slacked off...Eller Bourque Prust etc

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Really? Wow. You'd think with Travis Moen on his wing he'd be racking up the points.

What up wit' dat?
Travis Moen has never been a regular linemate of Eller for any period of time...go look up his most common linemates, 5 on 5 and PP.

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Old
01-17-2014, 10:45 AM
  #128
DAChampion
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LaPoche,

- Plekanec is playing well but is on track for one of the worst seasons of his career;
- A 48 game season has 77% of the statistical significance of an 82 game season.

These are facts, moving on.

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Old
01-17-2014, 10:47 AM
  #129
LePoche69
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
That's actually not true. ELler was brought back into the lineup last season because of an injury to another player and actually only moved up in the lineup again do to an injury. Therrien didn't hand him anything. He wasn't even in his plans. Once Eller was producing in the role, Therrien couldn't justify putting him back. But Therrien didn't put him there because he wanted, but because he had no choice due to an injured player (I forget who).

Dude, no one has produced this season with Bourque, Prust and Briere (only Plekanec has produced with Briere). Not even Desharnais was producing when playing with Bourque and Briere.

Everytime Eller plays with one of Gallagher or Galchenyuk he produces at a decent pace. Considering the fact that he has barely been given consistent PP time over the last month and a half, expecting him to produce at a 50 point pace at ES with Bourque and Briere now that Galchenyuk is injured is dreaming in technicolor. He played one game with Pacioretty and Gallagher and looked more than fine offensively, creating several chances.

And regardless of the narrative on this board, Gionta is not a useless player offensively. He might not be scoring as much, but he still contributes with his yeoman-like work ethic.
I'm not expecting him to necessarily produce 50 points. I'm expecting him to play better offensively, to make things happen, to force Therrien's hand.

That said, I do agree his linemates are not helping, and I don't even think he's playing bad. I just think he's not playing as good as last year in the o-zone (no matter his linemates) or as good as at the start of this season.

True that seperating him and Gallagher doesn't help, but people embelish the past; people remember the first 10 games when they were outstanding, but the egg line wasn't playing so good when they got broke up, and both Gallagher and Galchenyuk were horrible at getting out of their zone, which made that line pretty dangerous. And like it or not, Gallagher and Galchenyuk are still below avergage in their zone.

Now, I do think Therrien would have keep them together if Briere on DD's right wing would have worked, or if Bourque had a good enough season to play there. Then the team could have live with the Gallys' defensive shortcomings. But it isn't what happened.

It's too easy to blame everything's on the coach when, since the beginning of time, the adage "a coach is only as good as his players" is true. Of course Therrien could be better, but give him a 20% better season from Bourque and a 20% better season from Brière and we wouldn't even talk about it.

Ryder is missed a lot more than people think. A sure-bet 25-30 goals scorer, as frustrating as he could be, is hard to replace as his presence is balancing the lines better.

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Old
01-17-2014, 10:48 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
LaPoche,

- Plekanec is playing well but is on track for one of the worst seasons of his career;
- A 48 game season has 77% of the statistical significance of an 82 game season.

These are facts, moving on.
Sorry, really, I don't get it. How's that?

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01-17-2014, 10:51 AM
  #131
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Poeple shouldn't forget that Eller's line save our ass from a really bad start when DD did nothing.
If Plekanec goes down, Eller will be so usefull then.
If we need him to play on the wings, he can cause he's a 200ft player.

Altought he might have drop production, unlike others, he's helping in so many ways.

But for your information, EVERY SINGLE PLAYERS, no exception, have produced less this year than last year.

But Eller is used as a 3rd center, with no PP, no stability what-so-ever in terms of linesmates, gets mostly defensive missions.

What's the rationnal expectation for this kind ice-time?
40-45 pts would be really really good!!!!!
45-50 pts is totally elite.

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Old
01-17-2014, 10:57 AM
  #132
Et le But
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
LaPoche,

- Plekanec is playing well but is on track for one of the worst seasons of his career;
- A 48 game season has 77% of the statistical significance of an 82 game season.

These are facts, moving on.
Well, Plekanec is at least going to break the 20 goal mark he failed to reach only under Cunneyworth's attempt to ruin his life, but you are right, he's on pace for 50 points, which is perfectly good for his role but not at all his offensive ceiling, considering how he's getting virtually no PP time and brutally difficult defensive assignments.

However Plekanec is something extremely rare on this team, a player with a track record of producing regardless of context (and even then his best seasons all came on good possession teams except for the Carbo year where the entire offense was inflated by a ridiculous PP), Eller isn't playing particularly good offensively but he's mostly being expected to grind it out considering the way this team has been playing.

This team is playing dump and chase hockey, a player like Plekanec whose game is based around breakaways is suited for that, it's no coincidence that Eller, a player who likes to hold the puck, looked significantly better under the high possession system the Habs played last year and for the first 10 games this season, compared to the dump and chase the Habs have played since. This means Eller is a limited offensive player, it also means the team isn't taking advantage of the things he is good at offensively.

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Old
01-17-2014, 10:58 AM
  #133
Andy
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I'm not expecting him to necessarily produce 50 points. I'm expecting him to play better offensively, to make things happen, to force Therrien's hand.
Dude, no matter what he does he won't force Therrien's hand. MT just won't use him an offensive position anymore. There are games where Eller is one of team's better players and doesn't even sniff PP time.

In the game where he played with pacioretty and Gallagher, he had two dominant shifts and drew a PP, MT replaced him with Briere.

Therrien is more concerned with getting Bourque and Briere going and ensuring that DD and Pacioretty stay productive. Eller is an after thought offensively to these 4 players. He's hand plenty of games that could have forced MT's hand to throw him a bone, but he doesn't.

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Old
01-17-2014, 10:59 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
LaPoche,

- Plekanec is playing well but is on track for one of the worst seasons of his career;
- A 48 game season has 77% of the statistical significance of an 82 game season.

These are facts, moving on.
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Sorry, really, I don't get it. How's that?

Because every fan knows that a season has 62 games right?

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Old
01-17-2014, 11:02 AM
  #135
Milhouse40
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I'm not expecting him to necessarily produce 50 points. I'm expecting him to play better offensively, to make things happen, to force Therrien's hand.

That said, I do agree his linemates are not helping, and I don't even think he's playing bad. I just think he's not playing as good as last year in the o-zone (no matter his linemates) or as good as at the start of this season.

True that seperating him and Gallagher doesn't help, but people embelish the past; people remember the first 10 games when they were outstanding, but the egg line wasn't playing so good when they got broke up, and both Gallagher and Galchenyuk were horrible at getting out of their zone, which made that line pretty dangerous. And like it or not, Gallagher and Galchenyuk are still below avergage in their zone.

Now, I do think Therrien would have keep them together if Briere on DD's right wing would have worked, or if Bourque had a good enough season to play there. Then the team could have live with the Gallys' defensive shortcomings. But it isn't what happened.

It's too easy to blame everything's on the coach when, since the beginning of time, the adage "a coach is only as good as his players" is true. Of course Therrien could be better, but give him a 20% better season from Bourque and a 20% better season from Brière and we wouldn't even talk about it.

Ryder is missed a lot more than people think. A sure-bet 25-30 goals scorer, as frustrating as he could be, is hard to replace as his presence is balancing the lines better.
Well, with last year where Eller outproduced DD in tougher competition, tougher ice-time, tougher linesmates....and his play in the first 20 games isn't forcing Therrien's hand....i don't know what will....

But that's one of my main problem with Therrien.

Even if player X is playing a hell of a game, he still don't anything from Therrien.
Therrien keeps giving the best ice-time, best PP opp. to the same player even if those players are playing badly that night.

WQhen a coach asked more from a player and the player deliver.....Coach need to give more to that player....but that's not the case right now.

Not a good way to motivate anybody.....

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Old
01-17-2014, 02:52 PM
  #136
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Sorry, really, I don't get it. How's that?
It has 59% of the number games, and the square root of 0.59 is 0.77.

In statistics, significance most often goes as the square root of the number of counts.

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Old
01-17-2014, 03:20 PM
  #137
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Travis Moen has never been a regular linemate of Eller for any period of time...go look up his most common linemates, 5 on 5 and PP.
Eller hasn't had regular linemates dude... that's the point.

Again, stop with your crap.

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