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Surrealistic Defensive Zone Play

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Old
01-17-2014, 07:15 AM
  #1
GreenBubbleRaincoat
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Surrealistic Defensive Zone Play

I have never seen a team so incompetent, confused and nervous in their own zone as this team. It is so insane how they fumble the puck, get beat to the puck, fail to clear the puck and lose corner battles. I've just come to expect some kind of mishap EVERY TIME THE PUCK IS IN THEIR ZONE. It's unreal. Almost dream-like in the worst possible way.

I've always been a Therrien supporter. Even the first time around when I was a 12/13 year old. The team he had to work with back then was absolutely mediocre. Theodore made things possible too. That 2002 1st round against Boston is still one of my favorites. I was just happy to have a coach with some fire again... but my support is seriously waning. WE PLAY 80% OF THE GAME IN OUR OWN ZONE!! Didn't you guys notice the forecheck against Chicago?! The team was more aggressive. They were last year too. Funny how they play the game in THEIR OWN ZONE these days without the more aggressive forecheck. MB, wake up. This is not a defensive team. They haven't been built like that ever since I can remember.

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01-17-2014, 07:26 AM
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puckeater
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My recent thoughts exactly. How they look so bad is beyond me. Missed assignments all over the place, panicky and indecisive with the puck and completely lacking in body contact in the neutral zone and even less so in our zone. Swiping at the puck, turning away from finishing a check and finally throwing themselves in front of the puck in desperation. Sure the shot blocking stats are impressive but indicates poor d coverage not impeccable coverage. If this doesn't get seriously overhauled soon, we're doomed in the post season if we even make it there.

Of course we need more scoring up front but that takes a back seat to preventing goals at the other end.

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01-17-2014, 07:32 AM
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Lshap
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Welcome to the bi-polar fan base discussing its favourite bi-polar team. Yeah, last night was brutal for all the reasons you mentioned. Brief summary: That mess was not a conscious system implemented by Therrien, it was a result of a flaw in our roster. Our D gets flustered when pushed. They're effective when given the time to pass or skate, but any team that rushes or bullies them causes mistakes, and the Habs end up flailing away in their own zone. Ottawa, St-Louis, LA, even Florida, all play a physical game that kills our defensive ballet moves. Boston is just as physical, but slower, so they can't commit as deeply in the zone, which is why we're still given space to breathe.

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01-17-2014, 07:42 AM
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GreenBubbleRaincoat
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I know what you're saying Lshap. In no way is this a conscious system from J.J., Gallant or MT. I guess the other point I'm trying to make is the lack of aggression. This incessant dump and chase 'grinding' kind of style is so contradictory to the way this team is built it's not even funny. Like I said, I've always been a big Therrien supporter. His numbers are absolutely excellent since coming back. This year it's because of Price. We just aren't aggressive enough on the forecheck anymore. The 5 on 5 numbers don't lie. The play on the TV screen doesn't lie.

Simply put.... It's hard to score even strength goals when the play is in your zone for a majority of the time. I just can't believe how bad we are in our own zone.

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01-17-2014, 08:11 AM
  #5
Lshap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenBubbleRaincoat View Post
I know what you're saying Lshap. In no way is this a conscious system from J.J., Gallant or MT. I guess the other point I'm trying to make is the lack of aggression. This incessant dump and chase 'grinding' kind of style is so contradictory to the way this team is built it's not even funny. Like I said, I've always been a big Therrien supporter. His numbers are absolutely excellent since coming back. This year it's because of Price. We just aren't aggressive enough on the forecheck anymore. The 5 on 5 numbers don't lie. The play on the TV screen doesn't lie.

Simply put.... It's hard to score even strength goals when the play is in your zone for a majority of the time. I just can't believe how bad we are in our own zone.
I feel your pain. Therrien's aggressive offense worked great last season, but other teams have adapted. Their forwards are playing us deeper and tighter this season, pushing our D farther into our zone, forcing them to rush passes or make more passes. The result is we make more mistakes when moving the puck out, or we're physically more tired from the extra circling and puck battling. Guys like Diaz, Bouillon, Murray and Gorges can't maneuver with that extra pressure. The puck isn't cleared, a pass is intercepted, or it's iced, and there we are again, stuck in our zone.

This is where we need a more punishing core of Dmen. If the other team's forwards are in our face, messing up our fancy playmaking, they need to pay the price by being banged around for their efforts. Diaz, Bouillon, even Markov, aren't equipped to do that, so we continue being picked on.

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01-17-2014, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenBubbleRaincoat View Post
I have never seen a team so incompetent, confused and nervous in their own zone as this team. It is so insane how they fumble the puck, get beat to the puck, fail to clear the puck and lose corner battles. I've just come to expect some kind of mishap EVERY TIME THE PUCK IS IN THEIR ZONE. It's unreal. Almost dream-like in the worst possible way.

I've always been a Therrien supporter. Even the first time around when I was a 12/13 year old. The team he had to work with back then was absolutely mediocre. Theodore made things possible too. That 2002 1st round against Boston is still one of my favorites. I was just happy to have a coach with some fire again... but my support is seriously waning. WE PLAY 80% OF THE GAME IN OUR OWN ZONE!! Didn't you guys notice the forecheck against Chicago?! The team was more aggressive. They were last year too. Funny how they play the game in THEIR OWN ZONE these days without the more aggressive forecheck. MB, wake up. This is not a defensive team. They haven't been built like that ever since I can remember.
I've seen a lot worse dude at least this team can somewhat win some games. But I agree with you. We have pretty much the same team from last year yet we look completely different. I say for the majority it's a coaching problem because this team is not playing to it's strengths at the moment. Things need to change quick before the playoffs.

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01-17-2014, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CH25 View Post
I've seen a lot worse dude at least this team can somewhat win some games. But I agree with you. We have pretty much the same team from last year yet we look completely different. I say for the majority it's a coaching problem because this team is not playing to it's strengths at the moment. Things need to change quick before the playoffs.
I'd agree, but because trades are too difficult in this era, because the coach is perfect, and because we trust Brière holds the keys to Hogwarts, we need to build through the draft no. matter. what.

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01-17-2014, 09:15 AM
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This hasn't been mentioned much. But i think alot of the blame goes to JJ Daigneault. Impossible for the french media to mention it though. If his name was Steve Smith i can guarantee you they would mention in continually on AC.

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01-17-2014, 09:18 AM
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Lshap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drakaar10iemechx2012 View Post
This hasn't been mentioned much. But i think alot of the blame goes to JJ Daigneault. Impossible for the french media to mention it though. If his name was Steve Smith i can guarantee you they would mention in continually on AC.
You're right -- JJ's name hasn't come up much, and he's probably hoping no one else notices.

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01-17-2014, 09:19 AM
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I never thought we can be as bad defensively in our zone the way we were under Carbo in the last couple of months before he got fired. But I think we're worse now. I've never seen anything like this, even under Cunneyworth I guess. We're just lucky Price is playing out of his mind.

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01-17-2014, 09:32 AM
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I've said it before. We've been having issues defensively since the last third of the last season. I know the stats and results say different. But our defensive coverage, and some aspects in our offense have been bad since then. Also, the coaches haven't been able to adapt our team appropreately. I can only give credit to the goalie coach.

Those are the reasons why we were embarassed in the playoffs. Yet again, we managed to start off the season well considering the deficiency. But I think it'll be more a test of character rather than skill if we can manage to fix our issues without any trades involved.

We need a guy to clear the crease in front of Price. We need a big body to park in front of opposing goalies and score garbage goals, Gallagher can't be the only one doing this. We need a finisher that has that killer instinct to score. And we need to improve our defensive coverage from both our defensemen and forwards.

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01-17-2014, 10:07 AM
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Uber Coca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupmonger View Post
I've said it before. We've been having issues defensively since the last third of the last season. I know the stats and results say different. But our defensive coverage, and some aspects in our offense have been bad since then. Also, the coaches haven't been able to adapt our team appropreately. I can only give credit to the goalie coach.

Those are the reasons why we were embarassed in the playoffs. Yet again, we managed to start off the season well considering the deficiency. But I think it'll be more a test of character rather than skill if we can manage to fix our issues without any trades involved.

We need a guy to clear the crease in front of Price. We need a big body to park in front of opposing goalies and score garbage goals, Gallagher can't be the only one doing this. We need a finisher that has that killer instinct to score. And we need to improve our defensive coverage from both our defensemen and forwards.
This is true. I'm also convinced the players missing are within the system. I know we need to be patient with younger players - especially defensemen - but I'd rather live with Tinordi making some mistakes. He's exactly what this team is lacking.

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01-17-2014, 10:12 AM
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GreenBubbleRaincoat
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Originally Posted by Captain Saku View Post
I never thought we can be as bad defensively in our zone the way we were under Carbo in the last couple of months before he got fired. But I think we're worse now. I've never seen anything like this, even under Cunneyworth I guess. We're just lucky Price is playing out of his mind.
Wow. I almost mentioned this at the very beginning of the thread. That 08-09 came apart as we know, but were they ever bad at getting the puck out of their zone in the latter part of that season. Didn't improve much more after Gainey took to the bench either. Still, this team currently takes the cake. Maybe it's J.J.? Why can't people that have lived this game their whole lives adjust this team just a little? They have been playing such piss poor hockey, yet I expect a change come each game. This game against the Sens has finally made me cynical like a lot of fans.

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01-18-2014, 01:21 AM
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To compound these issues, they cannot prevent the opposition from gaining speed and break right through the neutral zone, nor can they forcheck effectively, and very few players are able to maintain possession or make a simple tape to tape pass.

There are issues all over the ice.

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01-18-2014, 04:50 PM
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Kirk Muller
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While I believe the defense core has issues, Mtl forwards do jack crap to help out. They are terrible at slowing the opposition coming up ice. Way too often you see MTL defenseman pushed back because the opposing player is at top speed thru the neutral zone.

You also have to add in, Briere, DD, Galchenyuk, Bourque, Parros aren't responsible and in DD and Briere case, downright awful, Pacioretty and Gallagher are adequate but not what i'd call two way forwards.

Really the only strong defensive forwards are Pleks, Eller, Gionta, Prust and Moen.

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01-18-2014, 04:59 PM
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I've never really liked this system in our own end where the defender kind of floats to the corner to attack the player.. When it works it's good but you'll see at least two three times a game a colossal **** up where you get a guy alone in the slot from it.. I'm surprised Price managed to get any shutouts in this system lol.

Not blaming Therrien I don't know who implemented it

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01-18-2014, 05:10 PM
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Only St-Louis, LA and Boston have less goals given than the Habs.


Definitely the worst defensive team ever.

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01-18-2014, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
Only St-Louis, LA and Boston have less goals given than the Habs.


Definitely the worst defensive team ever.

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01-18-2014, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
Only St-Louis, LA and Boston have less goals given than the Habs.


Definitely the worst defensive team ever.
Carey Price has kept this team out of the basement.

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01-18-2014, 05:32 PM
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Lshap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
Only St-Louis, LA and Boston have less goals given than the Habs.


Definitely the worst defensive team ever.

16 teams have allowed less shots than the Habs. Not so great. That's a better measure of our D.

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01-18-2014, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
16 teams have allowed less shots than the Habs. Not so great. That's a better measure of our D.
They are average yes.


OP said ''I have never seen a team so incompetent,''....

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01-18-2014, 05:51 PM
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We're missing one solid top-6 and one third pairing guy.

Subban and Gorges are solid, Diaz is okay but,

Markov-Emelin-Murray-Bouillon are legitimatly weak defensively. If they played Markov with Subban or Gorges that would make more sense, but with Emelin he's atrocious, as both are bad skaters and turnover prone.

Also we have a weak 5 on 5 team because our forwards are too small and lose most of their puck battles.

But nothing about this is a surprise. We already knew that our only chance of having a good team was if we got good special teams and goaltending.

No need to panic or trade everyone, patience is the key as magic rarely happens in hockey. But still, we pay for years of bad pro scouting. And our amateur scouting hasn't been too great since 2007 either.


Last edited by LeMAD: 01-18-2014 at 06:03 PM.
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01-18-2014, 07:01 PM
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Rebuild the defense

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01-19-2014, 01:28 PM
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I have been cheering for the Habs since 1960.The best defenceman that I ever saw wear the Hab jersey was Larry Robinson.He has been a head coach and defensive coach for several teams in the NHL.Does anyone know if there is some reason he has not been hired in either capacity?Is there a long standing grudge? I think that I heard that he did not want to be head coach here because of the pressure.I also thought that he was looking to be coach of defencemen if offered.Can any of the fans who live near Montreal shed any light? You would certainly have access to way more information than I would through your local papers and talk radio or TV. I agree that our defensive coverage in the defensive zone is chaotic at best and seems to depend on world class goaltending.I am simply appalled by the numerous times that we are incapable of shooting a puck 60 feet.

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01-19-2014, 01:32 PM
  #25
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They aren't incompetent, just not confident at all.

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