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Your views on Dallas Eakins so far - Part II

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Old
01-22-2014, 11:31 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Heavy Dee View Post
But guys like Gregor says its not the coaching.....

Signed, the Winnipeg jets
Heh, yeah

He seems stuck on the idea that because the team is bad, nothing about Eakin's performance should be evaluated.

I'm more partial to the opposite personally; Eakins has been so bad, I don't see how you can justify condemning all the players on the roster. Some were showing quite a bit of progress before Eakins showed up on the scene.

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01-23-2014, 12:15 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by JoeCool16 View Post
It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't things. Whether they deserved to be fired or not, it's been such a revolving door that I feel losing a bad coach still does damage at this point. The team'll look at the new guy NO MATTER WHAT with "oh, you're going to be here for the year and that's it" in the back of their head. For some of the players, it's all they've known in their pro career!

Only way you give him the boot, I think, is if you've got an established, experienced guy coming in that will command respect from the get go. As much as I dislike Eakins' coaching, that hypothetical coach is what we need before we can the guy one season in.
I think you're right, but only if we hire another rookie coach. You think if we had a Quenville, Hitchcock, Babcock, or some other experienced coach that players would just brush him off? No way Jose. These guys have never played under an experienced coach (except for Quinn, a couple guys played under him but he was past his exp date, he was more of a nice grandpa than a hardened veteran coach). If we actually hired a legit, experienced NHL coach I expect the culture of this team would change real quick, similar to what happened in Chicago when they hired Quennville. The players were upset that their buddy Savard was fired, but you're not going to sit around crying about your old coach when you're got Quennville in the room. He's gonna whip you into shape.

I really, REALLY hope that Detroit lets Babcock go. He's awesome, he knows how to win, he knows systems, he's from Alberta even. Perfect fit imo. If you need to give him a stake in Rexall Drugs, Mr. Katz, you do it. Throw all your $$$ at him.

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Old
01-23-2014, 12:47 AM
  #203
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Goals for 2.50 last season 2.56
Goals against 3.48 last season 2.73
PP% 17.7 last season 20.1
PK% 81.0 last season 83.4
Shots for 27.2 last season 26.8
Shots against 31.8 last season 32.8
5 on 5 goals for/against ratio 0.67 last season 0.90
Winning % when scoring 1st .381 last season .500
Winning % when trailing after 1st .226 last season .292
Winning % in 1 goal games .316 last season .353
Winning % in 3+ goal games .238 last season .500


Out of those 11 stats the Oilers are worse in 9 of the 11 categories from last season. They are marginally better in shots for and against. 0.4 shots more per game and 1 shot less against per game.

Generally though in all the categories that actually count.. goals for and against.. wins.. losses.. getting a lead... keeping it... NOT getting blown out in one-sided games... the Oilers are worse in all those areas from last season.


This in a year with games versus Eastern teams which is helping to "pad" the Oilers results somewhat over last season which should have been more difficult with only a Western schedule.

Is this roster supposed to have been better than last year's version? Well many I think believed it was at least marginally improved.

Personally I DID NOT think MacT improved the roster to any significant degree and I thought this team was about an 11th place team in the West... BUT Eakins is even making that prediction look irrationally optimistic in hindsight.

I see no redeeming qualities to anything Eakins has managed to squeeze out of this roster.

Should he be fired?

The better question is why would you want to keep a coach around that has managed to regress the team in basically every area of significance and who shows no ability to actually make any meaningful changes to his systems/methods to make the team even begin to look competitive on a game-to-game basis.


One of the most significant areas to me is the 1 goal games and the 3+ goal games.

Last year the team was blown out 10 times by 3+ goals BUT they also blew out other teams 10 times by 3+ goals as well. They were basically able to run over teams as much as they were run over.

This season they have been blown out 16 times by 3+ goals and have only 5 blow outs by 3+ goals vs their opponents. A dramatic change.

Last year they were 6-11 in 1 goal games and this year they are 6-13 in 1 goal games.

Their Achilles' heel last year seemed to be those tight, close games where they couldn't quite get over the hump but they still managed to blow some teams out quite often as well... but this year it's those tight games they still can't win AND they also get blown out way more often as well.

That's the biggest regression I see. They were definitely more competitive last season and seemed to have more ability to stick with games and put in a better level of effort even in losses.

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Old
01-23-2014, 04:45 AM
  #204
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From an outsider perspective, Eakins is a great coach, WILL be a good coach, but not for this team. I think a guy like Laviolette would be better suited for the Oilers, just like Tippett when he was hired by the Yotes. The Yotes need an experimented coach, with a whole game plan.

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Old
01-23-2014, 04:59 AM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
Dallas Eakins to the media today: "I firmly know that if I don't get this group going soon, it could be me"
I don't buy he's in the hot seat at all. I think it's more of a motivation tactic to try get the team to play with more(some?) fire.

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Old
01-23-2014, 07:07 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
I don't buy he's in the hot seat at all. I think it's more of a motivation tactic to try get the team to play with more(some?) fire.
This would motivate the club to continue the nosedive.

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01-23-2014, 09:12 AM
  #207
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Well, Eakins is a master of motivation.

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01-23-2014, 09:31 AM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeCool16 View Post
It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't things. Whether they deserved to be fired or not, it's been such a revolving door that I feel losing a bad coach still does damage at this point. The team'll look at the new guy NO MATTER WHAT with "oh, you're going to be here for the year and that's it" in the back of their head. For some of the players, it's all they've known in their pro career!

Only way you give him the boot, I think, is if you've got an established, experienced guy coming in that will command respect from the get go. As much as I dislike Eakins' coaching, that hypothetical coach is what we need before we can the guy one season in.
If we can get Laviolette on board to come in here, I'd be alright letting Eakins go. If we can't maybe bringing in a guy like Crawford to be an associate coach would be a good idea. Both Laviolette and Crawford have won the Cup as coaches so they should get some respect from the players.

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Old
01-23-2014, 09:37 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Lay Z Boy GM View Post
I think you're right, but only if we hire another rookie coach. You think if we had a Quenville, Hitchcock, Babcock, or some other experienced coach that players would just brush him off? No way Jose. These guys have never played under an experienced coach (except for Quinn, a couple guys played under him but he was past his exp date, he was more of a nice grandpa than a hardened veteran coach). If we actually hired a legit, experienced NHL coach I expect the culture of this team would change real quick, similar to what happened in Chicago when they hired Quennville. The players were upset that their buddy Savard was fired, but you're not going to sit around crying about your old coach when you're got Quennville in the room. He's gonna whip you into shape.

I really, REALLY hope that Detroit lets Babcock go. He's awesome, he knows how to win, he knows systems, he's from Alberta even. Perfect fit imo. If you need to give him a stake in Rexall Drugs, Mr. Katz, you do it. Throw all your $$$ at him.
Babcock would be the perfect coach for this team. Lowe, Tambo and Mac T have gone on record stating that they want Edmonton to follow Detroits model. What better way then to hire the coach that they've had all their success under. It will never happen though, can't see Detroit letting Babcock go anything soon.

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Old
01-23-2014, 10:28 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Goals for 2.50 last season 2.56
Goals against 3.48 last season 2.73
PP% 17.7 last season 20.1
PK% 81.0 last season 83.4
Shots for 27.2 last season 26.8
Shots against 31.8 last season 32.8
5 on 5 goals for/against ratio 0.67 last season 0.90
Winning % when scoring 1st .381 last season .500
Winning % when trailing after 1st .226 last season .292
Winning % in 1 goal games .316 last season .353
Winning % in 3+ goal games .238 last season .500


Out of those 11 stats the Oilers are worse in 9 of the 11 categories from last season. They are marginally better in shots for and against. 0.4 shots more per game and 1 shot less against per game.

Generally though in all the categories that actually count.. goals for and against.. wins.. losses.. getting a lead... keeping it... NOT getting blown out in one-sided games... the Oilers are worse in all those areas from last season.


This in a year with games versus Eastern teams which is helping to "pad" the Oilers results somewhat over last season which should have been more difficult with only a Western schedule.

Is this roster supposed to have been better than last year's version? Well many I think believed it was at least marginally improved.

Personally I DID NOT think MacT improved the roster to any significant degree and I thought this team was about an 11th place team in the West... BUT Eakins is even making that prediction look irrationally optimistic in hindsight.

I see no redeeming qualities to anything Eakins has managed to squeeze out of this roster.

Should he be fired?

The better question is why would you want to keep a coach around that has managed to regress the team in basically every area of significance and who shows no ability to actually make any meaningful changes to his systems/methods to make the team even begin to look competitive on a game-to-game basis.


One of the most significant areas to me is the 1 goal games and the 3+ goal games.

Last year the team was blown out 10 times by 3+ goals BUT they also blew out other teams 10 times by 3+ goals as well. They were basically able to run over teams as much as they were run over.

This season they have been blown out 16 times by 3+ goals and have only 5 blow outs by 3+ goals vs their opponents. A dramatic change.

Last year they were 6-11 in 1 goal games and this year they are 6-13 in 1 goal games.

Their Achilles' heel last year seemed to be those tight, close games where they couldn't quite get over the hump but they still managed to blow some teams out quite often as well... but this year it's those tight games they still can't win AND they also get blown out way more often as well.

That's the biggest regression I see. They were definitely more competitive last season and seemed to have more ability to stick with games and put in a better level of effort even in losses.

You should check the scoring chance +/- per 15 min ES TOI this season versus last, it's ridiculous we out shoot a bit from last year but look at how often scoring chances occur versus last year:

Individual scoring chances plus minus of top players at even strength: Nugent-Hopkins, Eakins +1.4 scoring chances per 15 minutes even strength to Krueger +2.5 per 15; Hall, Eakins +2.1, Krueger +3.7; Yakupov, Eakins +1.6, Krueger +1.5; Eberle, Eakins +2.2, Krueger +4.0; Gagner, Eakins +0.4, Krueger +0.9; Petry, Eakins +0.4, Krueger -0.8; J. Schultz, Eakins +0.1, Krueger +0.1.

I don't understand why that line is suffering so badly. What is crazy is how much potential for more points they could maybe have with a better coach. I know it is 1 stat (not the be all end all) but it's a pretty large change it is about 48% less scoring chances those guys produce during ES.

This is the reason I am sort of afraid we start trading our top players...because we aren't even evaluating them under the best circumstances.

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Old
01-23-2014, 10:31 AM
  #211
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Eakins also said that they're going to have a "mini-camp" after the Olympic break, and they're going to try some new stuff at that point.

Doing a bit of a reset for the rest of the season?

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01-23-2014, 11:33 AM
  #212
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It's gotten to the point where you have to fire Eakins, even if it isn't his fault. Something has to change with what's being said at practice. For the life of me I don't know why the oilers hired an AHL coach to help this team develop, seems so counter-intuitive.

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Old
01-23-2014, 11:38 AM
  #213
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Not necessarily on Eakins here but a few things I wanna note

Perhaps its not necessarily that we have regressed in every area. In every area we rely more and more heavily on Hall, Nuge, ebs etc. And we all know how one dimensional each of these players are. Have the other teams simply figured out how to play against us? I mean look at yak last season, and look at him this season. He hasnt really changed his game too much. I wonder if other teams have just studied his simple moves and know how to handle them. Same with the other players. Although, this is on Eakins to improve said habits and improve the players and he failed on this part

Second, we all were calling for Ralphs head last season (Wreck it Ralph), and we were a very very bad team last season. I think the only thing that carried us through most of the games we won was Dubnyk. He was a lot better last year with the different pads. Maybe I'm seeing things wrong but I remember we were one of the most outshot teams in the league by a fair margin.

Just my thoughts, but I still havent formed a very sound opinion of Eakins yet, although I do feel he is trying to hard to make an impact

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Old
01-23-2014, 11:42 AM
  #214
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Todd Nelson must have all kinds of schadenfreude over all of this. Not that he would have done any better...

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01-23-2014, 11:43 AM
  #215
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Why does Eakins need to wait for the Olympic break to make changes? Just because it's convenient that there's a 3 week break?

There's 8 games left before the Olympic break... a coach in this position should be doing whatever he can to try and improve/change these less-than-mediocre team performances in the here and now... not wait for another 8 games.

The season is shot... has been for months really... but no reason he can't be making some major changes in his systems and roster line combos (including players from OKC) BEFORE the Olympic break.

There's nothing to make us think that the team is progressing well and is on the verge of "getting it" so why wait until the Olympic break?

Ideally MacT gives Eakins his pink slip during/after these 8 games and the new coach he brings in uses those 3 weeks over the Olympic break to work with the players and gets this team to at least have a consistent work ethic where they put out some consistent effort (more than 5 minutes per game).

I'd actually respect MacT a lot more if he admitted his mistake, bit the bullet and fired Eakins... brought in a more experienced coach and moved forward. The Olympic break WOULD be a perfect opportunity for that.

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01-23-2014, 11:46 AM
  #216
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Is it just me or does watching an oilers game put you to sleep this year more then previous i just see the mac t blender come out and i decide checking out the internet on my phone is better then watching Eakins fail at coaching his way out of a wet paper bag

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01-23-2014, 11:47 AM
  #217
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I wouldn't exactly say that players like Hall, Eberle, and Nuge have regressed. When they first broke into the league, they were protected, given lots of offensive zone starts, and didn't necessarily play against the other team's top lines and defensive pairings. Fast forward to today, and they're being put in every situation now and going against other team's top players. The fact that they're still putting up good points now says alot about those guys.

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01-23-2014, 11:50 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Dabomb View Post
I wouldn't exactly say that players like Hall, Eberle, and Nuge have regressed. When they first broke into the league, they were protected, given lots of offensive zone starts, and didn't necessarily play against the other team's top lines and defensive pairings. Fast forward to today, and they're being put in every situation now and going against other team's top players. The fact that they're still putting up good points now says alot about those guys.
Depressing but true. Hall is our best player and he still pales in comparison to most other top players around the league.

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01-23-2014, 11:54 AM
  #219
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Depressing but true. Hall is our best player and he still pales in comparison to most other top players around the league.
3rd among LW.
18th among all skaters.

In a 30 team league.

Hall is well established among the top players. He will be fine.

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01-23-2014, 12:11 PM
  #220
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3rd among LW.
18th among all skaters.

In a 30 team league.

Hall is well established among the top players. He will be fine.
I agree completely +1

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01-23-2014, 12:18 PM
  #221
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Depressing but true. Hall is our best player and he still pales in comparison to most other top players around the league.
this is a ridiculous comment.... 18th in league scoring, and higher than that for PPG.... what exactly is the problem again?

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01-23-2014, 12:19 PM
  #222
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This would motivate the club to continue the nosedive.
Yea

Reverse psychology at its finest....when it doesn't work

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Old
01-23-2014, 12:20 PM
  #223
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Depressing but true. Hall is our best player and he still pales in comparison to most other top players around the league.
10th in scoring last 2 seasons 9th in ppg in a league of 700 any more wisdom you want to share http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seaso...ers-stats.html

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01-23-2014, 01:05 PM
  #224
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10th in scoring last 2 seasons 9th in ppg in a league of 700 any more wisdom you want to share http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seaso...ers-stats.html
There's more to the game than points. The guy is still a wanderer defensively and he has trouble against tough matchups.

He's a big guy but he doesn't use his body as often as we'd like. He could be so much better if he used his body and head a little more.

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01-23-2014, 01:14 PM
  #225
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Hall is one guy you remove and you KNOW the team would be worse.

Honestly how many others could you say that about on the team?

Hall isn't a problem... he has his flaws as any young player does but he is an offensive driver out there and is clearly a guy that gives more than average. It's easy to be sucked down into mediocrity on a poor team but he stands above this team and would be a star on any team in the NHL.

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