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Steve Mason signed to a multi-year extension (3 years, $12.3M per media)

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Old
01-18-2014, 05:05 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
How about when the risk is minimized? Why is it so hard to apply critical thinking skills?

Mason is a restricted free agent and has little leverage. Teams are not going to be salivating to throw an offer sheet at him even if he finishes strongly.

While this isn't a franchise crippling risk, it is a risk nonetheless considering he has a track record of being a poor goalie and is once again in a stretch of playing poorly. If he finishes poorly who is going to trust him to be the starter the next 3 years? He doesn't sniff these numbers if his current trend continues.

I also don't think he gets a much larger contract if he finishes strongly given his track record of erratic play and the saturation of goalies on the market.
Exactly this.

It's not a franchise crippling move, but it's yet another oddity for Homer.

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Old
01-18-2014, 05:10 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by dats81 View Post
Solid deal!
Bryzsaster has certainly had an affect on how Homer went into negotiations in respect to contract length/term.

If I remember it correctly, Marty Biron once asked for a 4M per contract years ago and he had not even been half the player Mason has been for us since joining the team...
Marty wanted $5M/year (reportedly), which was too much at the time, but he put up back-to-back 0.915+ seasons with the Flyers. He played well in Philly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Mason is a more athletic goalie than Leighton, but what does that have to do with anything?

Michael Leighton 2.97 .901
Steve Mason 2.82 .906

He has been fairly Leightonesque in his career with nearly 3X's as many starts. If Mason is a .906 starter or worse the rest of the way does anyone want him starting next season let alone the next 3 at 4M a pop? If the answer is no Homer jumped the gun.

By the way you actually think he would be worth a 100% raise if he finishes .905 the rest of the way after taking a pay cut last year? What leverage does he have?
I was opposed to bringing Mason here, so I am well aware of his numbers placing him at the bottom of NHL goaltenders after his rookie year. He clearly lost confidence in Columbus and his attitude sucked there.

However, everything the team has said this year suggests that Mason has taken this opportunity to be a team guy and bring a positive attitude to the room. The players love him. All which indicates to me that he has gained at least some of his confidence back.

Again, it has never been about talent with Mason. He's athletic, positionally sound, a great puck handler, but has issues with rebound control. Michael Leighton is a positional goalie, but there's nothing else to suggest he could ever hack it in the NHL.

Regarding save percentage: if Mason puts up 0.905 for the rest of the year, he'll (likely) finish above 0.910, which could easily get him $3M+/year in the summer.

The track record of the Flyers and goaltenders has made everyone pessimistic. I get it. It's a fair contract for both sides, though.

This contract makes Mason the 14th highest paid goalie and gives him the 14th highest cap hit among goalies (Miller and Hiller are UFAs and will get more, as well). Only Bobrovsky and Brodeur have shorter contracts, too. I'm fine with it.

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01-18-2014, 05:15 PM
  #128
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What do people mean Mason had no leverage?

The Flyers are under a lot of pressure to find a long term solution in net. Mason's agent knows the Flyers want Mason to be that guy. It doesn't look good on the organization if they recycle yet another goaltender-- this time one that is actually playing well.

If they wait until the summer, there is certainly increasing pressure on the Flyers to lock down a deal.

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01-18-2014, 05:18 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Mason is a more athletic goalie than Leighton, but what does that have to do with anything?

Michael Leighton 2.97 .901
Steve Mason 2.82 .906

He has been fairly Leightonesque in his career with nearly 3X's as many starts. If Mason is a .906 starter or worse the rest of the way does anyone want him starting next season let alone the next 3 at 4M a pop? If the answer is no Homer jumped the gun.

By the way you actually think he would be worth a 100% raise if he finishes .905 the rest of the way after taking a pay cut last year? What leverage does he have?
You have to remember also that Leighton was playing behind a much better defense at the time. Those top two pairings during the finals were outstanding. The shots Leighton let in were shots Mason would have made easily.

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01-18-2014, 05:41 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Exactly this.

It's not a franchise crippling move, but it's yet another oddity for Homer.
With the way people were talking about Mason getting paid so much more if they waited I was assuming he was a UFA.

If he's an RFA he literally had almost zero leverage even if he plays well for the rest of the season. Don't know why people are acting like he did then.

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01-18-2014, 05:48 PM
  #131
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Steve has played like a 4 million dollar goalie this year. Prob better than that.

I have no problem with this deal, or the timing of it.

Take some pressure off the kid and just let him worry about the game. I like it.

I don't understand the criticism of Homer here. Just bc he is an RFA doesn't mean he has no leverage and will sign a cheap deal. What if Mason dominated and had 7 shutouts from here to the end of the year? You think he'd still sign a deal for 4.1? Doubt it. Yes, he could **** the bed from here to the end of the year, but so could any player. You pay a player for what they are, and steve is a 4 million dollar goalie if you ask me.

Couple that with the cap going up and its even better.

Stop nitpicking, we have a solid goalie right now, lets enjoy it

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01-18-2014, 05:51 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Exactly this.

It's not a franchise crippling move, but it's yet another oddity for Homer.
Double Edge Sword, if Mason continues to improve and the Flyers make a playoff run, it would cost the Flyers even more money.

Feels like people are complaining just to have something to complain about. I have zero issues with this deal.

Mason's cap hit is only top 15 or 16th rank in the NHL, it's right on par.

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01-18-2014, 05:56 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I bet the people praising this deal were the same ones praising the Bryzgalov contract.
Do you watch games or look at just box scores? For all his "average" play as of late, id only say hes had one bad game. He doesnt give up alot of bad goals.

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01-18-2014, 05:58 PM
  #134
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Cap hit comparables as far as deals that aren't expiring this year include Cory Schneider, Ondrej Pavelec, and Antti Niemi. Niemi is the only one of those three who I'd rather have at this point, maaaaybe Schneider but we acquired Mason for much less. Mason is also the youngest.

Deals that expire at the end of this year that are within around $750k of Mason's $4.1mil are Hiller, Halak, Broduer, and Backstrom. Devan Dubnyk's deal was at $3.5mil per. I'd rather have Steve Mason given the age and what it cost to acquire him. At the end of the day it's still a small sample size and we likely could've gotten Mason for closer to $3.75mil but it really doesn't matter. Only Bobrovsky and Mason have really gotten me excited about the Flyers goaltending over the past decade so I'm glad their showing Mason a lot of faith and confidence with this contract and I really, really hope he succeeds!

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01-18-2014, 06:03 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
With the way people were talking about Mason getting paid so much more if they waited I was assuming he was a UFA.

If he's an RFA he literally had almost zero leverage even if he plays well for the rest of the season. Don't know why people are acting like he did then.
If you don't include Mason the only goalie the Flyers would have under contract for next year is Stolarz who's still years away from the NHL. That's a pretty good bargaining piece for Mason & his agent regardless if he's a RFA.

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01-18-2014, 06:07 PM
  #136
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At $4.1M, you're not paying for potential. Mason is getting paid for his body of work to this point with the Flyers - a body of work that is declining.

If you think that Mason's start this season was the real Mason, well, I have a bridge to sell you.

If you think that his body of work to date has evened out to his true ability, it's not so bad, but strange considering a franchise with the history of being stingy financially in net, considering Mason had very little leverage.

If you think that it is most prudent to see where Mason ended up after the season - an entire season's worth of data is much better to analyze than half one.

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01-18-2014, 06:22 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
At $4.1M, you're not paying for potential. Mason is getting paid for his body of work to this point with the Flyers - a body of work that is declining.

If you think that Mason's start this season was the real Mason, well, I have a bridge to sell you.

If you think that his body of work to date has evened out to his true ability, it's not so bad, but strange considering a franchise with the history of being stingy financially in net, considering Mason had very little leverage.

If you think that it is most prudent to see where Mason ended up after the season - an entire season's worth of data is much better to analyze than half one.
If Steve Mason from October/November was the real Steve Mason, he'd be one of the highest paid goalies in the league.

As it stands, he'll be out of the top 15 after Miller & Hiller get new deals.

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01-18-2014, 06:26 PM
  #138
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Good job Homer!

I agree this signing. The contract is short term and the amount is fair. There were many games this season where Mason was the best player of the game, even when we lost. Its been a while since Flyers fans could say that.

I like the timing of this contract. Homer signed him now while his value is low. Mason has had great games while the offense struggled. And then there were games where he wasn't at his best but our offense was able to outscore their opponent. This is why Mason's stats are quite where we want it to be. If you put Mason's game with our offense clicking then Mason's stats would increase and his value would have risen significantly. Then we would be forced to sign another long term goalie. Homer just prevented that from happening.

As for Mason being our "Answer", I don't quite buy into that just yet. We need to see how he does down the stretch with our struggling defense. I expect defensive changes to be made by the trade deadline if Homer wants to make a run into the playoffs. Mason has done really well but for him to be labeled our "answer" then we need to see him play behind a solid defensive core and dominate. I believe the chemistry between a goalie and the defense is the most important part of the team. And we have yet to see that happen.

On a side note. I am really looking forward to drive to New York on Monday to see the Flyers road game against the Islanders. I will be tailgating really early and I expect the Philly Faithful to show up and take over. Tickets are really cheap on StubHub right now. Monday is a holiday and its an afternoon game. Prefect time for a Flyers road trip. Spread the word! Lets go Flyers!

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01-18-2014, 07:06 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
If Steve Mason from October/November was the real Steve Mason, he'd be one of the highest paid goalies in the league.

As it stands, he'll be out of the top 15 after Miller & Hiller get new deals.
Isn't it worth a whole second half of the season to decide just how close to that Steve Mason Steve Mason is?

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01-18-2014, 07:29 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
How about when the risk is minimized? Why is it so hard to apply critical thinking skills?

Mason is a restricted free agent and has little leverage. Teams are not going to be salivating to throw an offer sheet at him even if he finishes strongly.

While this isn't a franchise crippling risk, it is a risk nonetheless considering he has a track record of being a poor goalie and is once again in a stretch of playing poorly. If he finishes poorly who is going to trust him to be the starter the next 3 years? He doesn't sniff these numbers if his current trend continues.

I also don't think he gets a much larger contract if he finishes strongly given his track record of erratic play and the saturation of goalies on the market.
So what exactly do you think the differences here are? Do you think if he finishes poorly the Flyers simply let him walk? If they don't let him walk, what do they give him? One year for $2 million? More years? More money? Less? And on the other hand, what if he is lights out? Same contract? Longer term? More money?

There is "risk" in both of these scenarios, neither of which have enough of a detriment to really get bent out of shape about it.

And again I ask, when is it ok to sign a guy during the season? Minimizing risk is a vague term. Why is the risk more that Mason will fail than he will play well when he has played so well already? Any contract that gets signed during the season has the possibility of being more than it would have been come the offseason or less than it would have been come the offseason. If the years and money are ok with you today, what is the difference? Your speculation that he would have gotten a lesser deal is no more valid than someone saying he would have gotten a bigger deal. You are upset about nothing.

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01-18-2014, 07:46 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg12lw View Post
Steve has played like a 4 million dollar goalie this year. Prob better than that.

I have no problem with this deal, or the timing of it.

Take some pressure off the kid and just let him worry about the game. I like it.

I don't understand the criticism of Homer here. Just bc he is an RFA doesn't mean he has no leverage and will sign a cheap deal. What if Mason dominated and had 7 shutouts from here to the end of the year? You think he'd still sign a deal for 4.1? Doubt it. Yes, he could **** the bed from here to the end of the year, but so could any player. You pay a player for what they are, and steve is a 4 million dollar goalie if you ask me.

Couple that with the cap going up and its even better.

Stop nitpicking, we have a solid goalie right now, lets enjoy it
Whether he dominates or ***** the bed the rest of the year is not a 50/50 proposition, based on his career performance. He's done a lot more bed ******** than dominating. I think that's what some people are missing.

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01-18-2014, 07:54 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Isn't it worth a whole second half of the season to decide just how close to that Steve Mason Steve Mason is?
Maybe.

If his overall play this season is the "real" Steve Mason, then $4M/year is fair.

If his history in Columbus is the "real" Steve Mason, then it was a bad deal.

Unless he goes off the rails completely, he was probably getting a similar contract in the summer anyway. This lets him put his entire focus on the ice and that's why I don't mind it; he couldn't have done much to play his way out of the same contract unless he is really, really, Bryz-like terrible the rest of the season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
Whether he dominates or ***** the bed the rest of the year is not a 50/50 proposition, based on his career performance. He's done a lot more bed ******** than dominating. I think that's what some people are missing.
No one is overlooking his poor numbers in Columbus.

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01-18-2014, 07:56 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
Whether he dominates or ***** the bed the rest of the year is not a 50/50 proposition, based on his career performance. He's done a lot more bed ******** than dominating. I think that's what some people are missing.
I don't know if I'd say its a LOT more bed ********. To begin with, the years he had the bad numbers he was on a bottom feeding team, one year I think actually the worst in the league (obviously, his play didn't help, but he wasn't exactly given the best support). And his numbers over his last 50+ games have been good. His career is basically two good seasons and three bad seasons. I'm not too worried about him slumping to the point where we wither wouldn't have re-signed him or we would have re-signed him for drastically less, just like if they waited I wouldn't have been too worried that we would have to pay more.

If you are so concerned with him ******** the bed over the next 40 games (where he'll play like 30ish probably) so we could have possibly maybe saved $500k I think you are missing the big picture. Why sign a guy you don't trust? If he plays well the rest of the season you won't be worried that he sucks next year?

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01-18-2014, 08:19 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I don't know if I'd say its a LOT more bed ********. To begin with, the years he had the bad numbers he was on a bottom feeding team, one year I think actually the worst in the league (obviously, his play didn't help, but he wasn't exactly given the best support). And his numbers over his last 50+ games have been good. His career is basically two good seasons and three bad seasons. I'm not too worried about him slumping to the point where we wither wouldn't have re-signed him or we would have re-signed him for drastically less, just like if they waited I wouldn't have been too worried that we would have to pay more.

If you are so concerned with him ******** the bed over the next 40 games (where he'll play like 30ish probably) so we could have possibly maybe saved $500k I think you are missing the big picture. Why sign a guy you don't trust? If he plays well the rest of the season you won't be worried that he sucks next year?
I would just like a larger sample before committing to the guy. I don't really think he'll be terrible but I think there's a better chance of that happening than there is of him winning the Vezina or something. But as I said earlier in the thread, it's not a terrible deal, it's just riskier than it needed to be.

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01-19-2014, 12:26 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Flyersguru View Post
Double Edge Sword, if Mason continues to improve and the Flyers make a playoff run, it would cost the Flyers even more money.

Feels like people are complaining just to have something to complain about. I have zero issues with this deal.

Mason's cap hit is only top 15 or 16th rank in the NHL, it's right on par.
Yeah, I remember thinking if we could get him around $4MM for 4 years I'd be very happy. This is even better. My hope is that he excels and earns an even bigger contract next time.

For all the talk of leverage and waiting, I think the team knows they like this guy. He's been the team MVP this year to date.

His puckhandling alone has improved the team and reduced the wear and tear on the D, esp. Kimmo, who is taking less routine hits.

Mason signed a reasonable deal because he loves it in Philly. The Flyers don't have to go goalie shopping in the offseason, unless they decide not to bring Emery back. I think they will.


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01-19-2014, 01:41 AM
  #146
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He's only 25. What I saw this year is what he was doing in his rookie year.

There is no reason to believe he cannot keep it up, and that the past couple of seasons were just him maturing and being in a bad environment (ask Rick Nash)

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01-19-2014, 10:29 AM
  #147
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There is no reason to believe he cannot keep it up, and that the past couple of seasons were just him maturing and being in a bad environment (ask Rick Nash)
What are you going to ask Rick Nash? How'd it make him feel that JMFJ verbally ***** slapped you on t.v. about his lack of "testicular fortitude" and inability to be leader. What does he think of his former team immediately getting better once they traded him? How does he feel knowing one of the players he was traded for has more assists, points, and is a FAR better leader than he is despite costing $3.6 million less? When is he going to ACTUALLY play(as opposed to just showing up) in a playoff game? How does he feel now that he's back into his favorite role of overpayed, underperforming star status?

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01-19-2014, 01:51 PM
  #148
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What are you going to ask Rick Nash? How'd it make him feel that JMFJ verbally ***** slapped you on t.v. about his lack of "testicular fortitude" and inability to be leader. What does he think of his former team immediately getting better once they traded him? How does he feel knowing one of the players he was traded for has more assists, points, and is a FAR better leader than he is despite costing $3.6 million less? When is he going to ACTUALLY play(as opposed to just showing up) in a playoff game? How does he feel now that he's back into his favorite role of overpayed, underperforming star status?
A lot of this sounds like "bad environment."

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01-19-2014, 02:14 PM
  #149
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If you don't include Mason the only goalie the Flyers would have under contract for next year is Stolarz who's still years away from the NHL. That's a pretty good bargaining piece for Mason & his agent regardless if he's a RFA.
If Mason goes back to playing similar to his Columbus plays it's not a major loss anyhow.

Mason was an RFA, the vast majority of his playing career to this date is filled with crap play and a reputation for mental fragility, and nobody in the league would be throwing offer sheets at him most likely. He had zero leverage. With the way Mason's career has been to date it's not like he can afford to hold out on playing.

Worst case scenario, realistically, if they wait out the rest of the season and he plays well he gets paid 5 mil instead of 4.1 or so and that's worst case scenario in terms of waiting until the end of the season to sign him. Worst case scenario to this deal is that he craps out the rest of the season and we're all suddenly extremely nervous about his new deal.

Either way there's the possibility of him improving or regressing, but like many others have mentioned it's about reducing risk and Holmgren failed to do that here.

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01-19-2014, 02:17 PM
  #150
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I don't love the deal, but with the cap likely going up, I can live with it.

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