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Old
01-19-2014, 08:13 PM
  #51
AngelDuck
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Here's a unique thought for next season...

Fowler-Lindholm (if he can move to the right side)
Beauchemin-Vatanen
Allen-Lovejoy

Lovejoy moves to the 3rd pair with decreased responsibilities, Vatanen and Lindholm both move up in the lineup after having a season under their belts. Let's be real, at some point we're all going to want Lindholm and Fowler to play together. Might as well not delay the inevitable.

btw, a healthy Beauch is the perfect partner for Sami.

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01-19-2014, 08:16 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by mighty all the way View Post
We're not saying Lovejoy is bad. We just know BM is searching for a top 4 RHD probably for Fowler so we are discussing it. People need to not be so mad when evaluating a player's play.
See, that's the part that sticks out. Why is it 'probably for Fowler' when the right handed defenseman that has actually stood out as a vulnerability is Vatanen?

Well, that and some aggressive cherry picking in people's arguments.

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01-19-2014, 08:18 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Here's a unique thought for next season...

Fowler-Lindholm (if he can move to the right side)
Beauchemin-Vatanen
Allen-Lovejoy

Lovejoy moves to the 3rd pair with decreased responsibilities, Vatanen and Lindholm both move up in the lineup after having a season under their belts. Let's be real, at some point we're all going to want Lindholm and Fowler to play together. Might as well not delay the inevitable.

btw, a healthy Beauch is the perfect partner for Sami.
Just because they might be the most talented defensemen, doesn't mean that they should be paired together. Not only does that not always work, but it actually spreads out the talent across your roster to have them anchoring different pairings.


Last edited by Exit Dose: 01-19-2014 at 08:44 PM.
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01-19-2014, 08:21 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Here's a unique thought for next season...

Fowler-Lindholm (if he can move to the right side)
Beauchemin-Vatanen
Allen-Lovejoy

Lovejoy moves to the 3rd pair with decreased responsibilities, Vatanen and Lindholm both move up in the lineup after having a season under their belts. Let's be real, at some point we're all going to want Lindholm and Fowler to play together. Might as well not delay the inevitable.

btw, a healthy Beauch is the perfect partner for Sami.
I think it's too little size on the top pairing and too little puck moving on the third. I think ideally that Lindholm and Fowler anchor 1A/1B pairings.

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01-19-2014, 08:21 PM
  #55
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Beauchemin has also has a bad habit of turning over the puck even in his best seasons, and I'm talking far worse than icings, yet for some reason there isn't a lot of talk that we need to replace him in those years, or this one for that matter.
Agreed. Beauchemin has those "Franky" moments where you really have to and wonder what the **** he was thinking.

He's not alone in making bone headed plays at times either. Hell, Ryan Getzlaf is playing MVP level hockey, and he still manages to make some absurdly bad turnovers.

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01-19-2014, 09:29 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
See, that's the part that sticks out. Why is it 'probably for Fowler' when the right handed defenseman that has actually stood out as a vulnerability is Vatanen?

Well, that and some aggressive cherry picking in people's arguments.
This.

If Murph is indeed shopping for a right-handed shooting d-man it's for Allen not Fowler. Sami is the only d-man that worries me for the playoffs.

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01-19-2014, 09:41 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
See, that's the part that sticks out. Why is it 'probably for Fowler' when the right handed defenseman that has actually stood out as a vulnerability is Vatanen?

Well, that and some aggressive cherry picking in people's arguments.
The answer to that is simple. People don't come into the GDT and rant every time Sami makes a bad play like they do if it is Sbisa, Hiller, or Lovejoy. Certain people think that if they ***** all the time about somebody, others will jump on the bandwagon and we can eventually run their hated player out of town. And, quite frankly they have gained followers.

Anybody who watches the games without any player bias can see every one of our guys **** up at inopportune times. Getz, Perry, Fowler, Beauch, Hampus, and yes even Sami. But certain posters feel the need to keep bashing their most disliked players in favor of their favorites.

The whole icing rant is a ****ing joke. How many times do other guys try to make the perfect clear and the puck doesn't clear the zone at all? I don't see anybody ***** about that. If it takes an icing to get it the **** out then that's a lot better than not getting it out at all.

But yeah, according to NHL 14 we will be a much better team as soon as we get Lovejoy away from Fowler. So, by all means, lets make a deal, give up some good assets and then change what's been working all year because having the best record in the league is meaningless according to some. OK, you've convinced me (not you ED ), let's do it.

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01-19-2014, 09:47 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
The answer to that is simple. People don't come into the GDT and rant every time Sami makes a bad play like they do if it is Sbisa, Hiller, or Lovejoy. Certain people think that if they ***** all the time about somebody, others will jump on the bandwagon and we can eventually run their hated player out of town. And, quite frankly they have gained followers.

Anybody who watches the games without any player bias can see every one of our guys **** up at inopportune times. Getz, Perry, Fowler, Beauch, Hampus, and yes even Sami. But certain posters feel the need to keep bashing their most disliked players in favor of their favorites.

The whole icing rant is a ****ing joke. How many times do other guys try to make the perfect clear and the puck doesn't clear the zone at all? I don't see anybody ***** about that. If it takes an icing to get it the **** out then that's a lot better than not getting it out at all.

But yeah, according to NHL 14 we will be a much better team as soon as we get Lovejoy away from Fowler. So, by all means, lets make a deal, give up some good assets and then change what's been working all year because having the best record in the league is meaningless according to some. OK, you've convinced me (not you ED ), let's do it.
But did you see those passes he didn't convert on? We should shake up one of the league's best defensive pairs because highschoolers/youtube/that'slikeyouropinionman.

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01-19-2014, 10:38 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Damn Skippy View Post
But did you see those passes he didn't convert on? We should shake up one of the league's best defensive pairs because highschoolers/youtube/that'slikeyouropinionman.
Advanced stats and video game ratings. Oh, and the impact to your fantasy team. Those are the important factors when evaluating players now. Teams can always be improved by using these new technology tools.

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01-19-2014, 11:54 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
The answer to that is simple. People don't come into the GDT and rant every time Sami makes a bad play like they do if it is Sbisa, Hiller, or Lovejoy. Certain people think that if they ***** all the time about somebody, others will jump on the bandwagon and we can eventually run their hated player out of town. And, quite frankly they have gained followers.

Anybody who watches the games without any player bias can see every one of our guys **** up at inopportune times. Getz, Perry, Fowler, Beauch, Hampus, and yes even Sami. But certain posters feel the need to keep bashing their most disliked players in favor of their favorites.

The whole icing rant is a ****ing joke. How many times do other guys try to make the perfect clear and the puck doesn't clear the zone at all? I don't see anybody ***** about that. If it takes an icing to get it the **** out then that's a lot better than not getting it out at all.

But yeah, according to NHL 14 we will be a much better team as soon as we get Lovejoy away from Fowler. So, by all means, lets make a deal, give up some good assets and then change what's been working all year because having the best record in the league is meaningless according to some. OK, you've convinced me (not you ED ), let's do it.
Now your talking apples and oranges...A forward making a mistake is almost never as bad as a defensemen making one (thats why defense is the hardest job after goalie) and Lovejoy is on the top pairing...top pairing defense men should be held to a higher accountability than a 3rd pairing.

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01-20-2014, 01:03 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by mighty all the way View Post
We're not saying Lovejoy is bad. We just know BM is searching for a top 4 RHD probably for Fowler so we are discussing it. People need to not be so mad when evaluating a player's play.
People aren't mad for someone evaluating a player's play. The problem arises, when it's a constant pigeon hole argument and repetitive statement after numerous counter arguments are placed upon the original argument with no real rebuttal other then restating their original argument.

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Originally Posted by Ducks Nation View Post
Now your talking apples and oranges...A forward making a mistake is almost never as bad as a defensemen making one (thats why defense is the hardest job after goalie) and Lovejoy is on the top pairing...top pairing defense men should be held to a higher accountability than a 3rd pairing.

That is simply false, unless you're talking about a forward making a mistake specifically in the offensive zone. Lovejoy makes his fair share of errand passes that lead to icings, but they are far less detrimental then not covering his defensive assignment, not hustling, or making an unnecessary pass that leads to an odd man rush. Lovejoy very rarely commits the latter.

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01-20-2014, 01:18 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Ducks Nation View Post
Now your talking apples and oranges...A forward making a mistake is almost never as bad as a defensemen making one (thats why defense is the hardest job after goalie) and Lovejoy is on the top pairing...top pairing defense men should be held to a higher accountability than a 3rd pairing.
No, your the one trying to make fruit salad. When Getz made his give away in the D zone (CHI or STL, forgot which) right to the opponent for a clear shot on goal from inside the ladies tees that was no big deal? But if Lovejoy had to ice it after that turnover, we should replace him? Yeah, right.

Thanks for the pointer on the difference between top and 3rd pairing D men. Here's a thought for you. Why don't we switch out Sami for Lovejoy? Sami hardly ever ices the puck. By your logic he should be playing higher up than Lovejoy.

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01-20-2014, 01:22 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
No, your the one trying to make fruit salad. When Getz made his give away in the D zone (CHI or STL, forgot which) right to the opponent for a clear shot on goal from inside the ladies tees that was no big deal? But if Lovejoy had to ice it after that turnover, we should replace him? Yeah, right.

Thanks for the pointer on the difference between top and 3rd pairing D men. Here's a thought for you. Why don't we switch out Sami for Lovejoy? Sami hardly ever ices the puck. By your logic he should be playing higher up than Lovejoy.
Sami makes errand passes too but this is a Lovejoy discussion so I am not sure why you are bringing up other people. Make a Sami Vatanen thread and I will post in it.

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01-20-2014, 01:23 AM
  #64
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We need a big physical RHD not a rookie 5'10 defensemen playing with Fowler. Would be free reign in front of the net already more than it is with Fowler/Lovejoy

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01-20-2014, 01:46 AM
  #65
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Sami makes errand passes too but this is a Lovejoy discussion so I am not sure why you are bringing up other people. Make a Sami Vatanen thread and I will post in it.
Sami doesn't ice the puck as much and Sami makes better passes than Lovejoy. Those are your 2 big *****es about Lovejoy on the top pairing. You want to replace him for those reasons. I just gave you a perfect solution. No need to give up valuable assets for a replacement when we can just swap out Lovejoy for a guy who doesn't ice the puck as much and makes much better passes. What more do you want?

Or is it possible, just maybe, that there is more to playing top pairing D than the things you want to complain about. Because maybe the game isn't played in a vacuum? Maybe results actually matter? Oh, yeah I forgot, you are the one guy who doesn't think the best record in the league means anything.

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01-20-2014, 01:49 AM
  #66
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Sami doesn't ice the puck as much and Sami makes better passes than Lovejoy. Those are your 2 big *****es about Lovejoy on the top pairing. You want to replace him for those reasons. I just gave you a perfect solution. No need to give up valuable assets for a replacement when we can just swap out Lovejoy for a guy who doesn't ice the puck as much and makes much better passes. What more do you want?

Or is it possible, just maybe, that there is more to playing top pairing D than the things you want to complain about. Because maybe the game isn't played in a vacuum? Maybe results actually matter? Oh, yeah I forgot, you are the one guy who doesn't think the best record in the league means anything.
Don't put words in my mouth its against site rules. I said the playoffs is a whole different game and regular season games won't mean anything other than home advantage. Making a mistake in a regular season game is obviously not as big of a deal as if it was game 7 of a playoff series.

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01-20-2014, 01:50 AM
  #67
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Very rarely this season. Last playoffs however he was the guy who iced the puck in overtime of game 6. Arguably a series costing goal right there.
Yeah.

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01-20-2014, 02:00 AM
  #68
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Don't put words in my mouth its against site rules. I said the playoffs is a whole different game and regular season games won't mean anything other than home advantage. Making a mistake in a regular season game is obviously not as big of a deal as if it was game 7 of a playoff series.
I didn't put words in your mouth they're your own words. You discount anything that happens in the regular season. It's all meaningless to you. Maybe you should think before you post if you don't like having somebody point out what you are saying.

Now how about my solution to all your problems. What's wrong with it?

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01-20-2014, 02:02 AM
  #69
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I didn't put words in your mouth they're your own words. You discount anything that happens in the regular season. It's all meaningless to you. Maybe you should think before you post if you don't like having somebody point out what you are saying.

Now how about my solution to all your problems. What's wrong with it?
Every game we have played this regular season against an elite opponent Fowler/Lovejoy has been semi-exposed.

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01-20-2014, 02:03 AM
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Semi-exposed because Lovejoy is not a top pairing defensemen. He does have great chemistry with Fowler I will give him that, he has played over expectations but that doesn't change the fact he is not a #1 or #2 defensemen, if we can make a move to bring someone better then him in to play with Fowler that would be a good thing.

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01-20-2014, 02:19 AM
  #71
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Semi-exposed because Lovejoy is not a top pairing defensemen. He does have great chemistry with Fowler I will give him that, he has played over expectations but that doesn't change the fact he is not a #1 or #2 defensemen, if we can make a move to bring someone better then him in to play with Fowler that would be a good thing.
So I guess the whole icing and passing excuse was just ********. The reality is, you can't come up with one legitimate reason why we should replace him other than you don't think he's good enough. Well, just in case you weren't sure, I'm going to go with the coaches opinions over yours.

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01-20-2014, 02:25 AM
  #72
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So I guess the whole icing and passing excuse was just ********. The reality is, you can't come up with one legitimate reason why we should replace him other than you don't think he's good enough. Well, just in case you weren't sure, I'm going to go with the coaches opinions over yours.
The coach can only play the players on the current roster so yes you are right. They are looking for a RHD for a reason.

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01-20-2014, 02:32 AM
  #73
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We have 7 LH defenseman (including Sbisa and Souray) and 2 RH defenseman. I`m no expert, but i think Bob is looking to add some RH, not replace Lovejoy.
Lovejoy is playing very good, but we still need to look for a decent RH to upgrade the overall defense.

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01-20-2014, 02:34 AM
  #74
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If we moved for a RHD Sbisa/Allen/Souray (injured now so prob not) would be going out maybe Vatanen.

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01-20-2014, 02:41 AM
  #75
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If we moved for a RHD Sbisa/Allen/Souray (injured now so prob not) would be going out maybe Vatanen.
I think we want to add some RH defenseman. In that case trading away Vatanen would not be smart - we would still be left with many left handers and at least one player playing on his off-side.

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