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Old
01-20-2014, 02:49 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Sean Garrity View Post
Exploited is being ridiculous. Does he ice the puck too often? Absolutely. Better that then a turnover in the defensive zone.
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Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
How many times has a bad Lovjoy pass ended up in a goal? How many times have his icings led to goals? This argument is ridiculous. The way Fowler and Lovejoy play together is so important to the success of this team. They'll only be sharper come playoff time. This pairing hasn't been altered all season and in case anyone was wondering we're the best team in the league. What a joke.
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Originally Posted by Damn Skippy View Post
But did you see those passes he didn't convert on? We should shake up one of the league's best defensive pairs because highschoolers/youtube/that'slikeyouropinionman.
What exactly was Lovejoy thinking here? Like literally who is he passing to when he has plenty of options for easy break out.

He literally has 3 options that are all wide open to pass to...what is he thinking? This icing directly lead to a goal.


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01-20-2014, 02:50 AM
  #77
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I think we want to add some RH defenseman. In that case trading away Vatanen would not be smart - we would still be left with many left handers and at least one player playing on his off-side.
Yes I mean more if we get a really good defensemen Vatanen may have to be put into the bundle.

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01-20-2014, 03:01 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Ducks Nation View Post
What exactly was Lovejoy thinking here? Like literally who is he passing to when he has plenty of options for easy break out.

He literally has 3 options that are all wide open to pass to...what is he thinking? This icing directly lead to a goal.

How about something from THIS season.

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01-20-2014, 03:03 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
How about something from THIS season.
I just posted a video on the first post and that was from the last game...and that wasn't even it all I just was going through the game and noticed what bad decisions he makes with the puck on his stick in those situations when he had simple passes he should have made tape to tape. And someone was complaining about icings not mattering...they mattered there and maybe lost us the series.

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01-20-2014, 03:05 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
We have 7 LH defenseman (including Sbisa and Souray) and 2 RH defenseman. I`m no expert, but i think Bob is looking to add some RH, not replace Lovejoy.
Lovejoy is playing very good, but we still need to look for a decent RH to upgrade the overall defense.
I tend to think this is the case. LeBrun never said the Ducks wanted a top 4 RD. That was fans projecting. As for adding a top 4 RD, sure it can make us better, doesn't mean he will be had to replace Lovejoy, or Vatanen even, could just be used to get players playing their natural wing, like Beauchemin and Lindholm rather than trying to make them play their off side.

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01-20-2014, 03:10 AM
  #81
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I tend to think this is the case. LeBrun never said the Ducks wanted a top 4 RD. That was fans projecting. As for adding a top 4 RD, sure it can make us better, doesn't mean he will be had to replace Lovejoy, or Vatanen even, could just be used to get players playing their natural wing, like Beauchemin and Lindholm rather than trying to make them play their off side.
Could be. Who knows. All I know is when you can't trust one of our top pairing defensemen with the puck it COULD be a problem in the playoffs (as it has before) Hopefully it works out.

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01-20-2014, 03:19 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Ducks Nation View Post
Yes I mean more if we get a really good defensemen Vatanen may have to be put into the bundle.
I don`t think Bob should do that, and i`m sure he won`t. Losing Vatanen might be a mistake in longterm, especially if we trade for rental, like Girardi, because of the RH thing.

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01-20-2014, 03:19 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Ducks Nation View Post
Could be. Who knows. All I know is when you can't trust one of our top pairing defensemen with the puck it COULD be a problem in the playoffs (as it has before) Hopefully it works out.
That's pretty extreme isn't it. I am sure we could find a bad play from anyone during those games in Chicago and St. Louis. As much as Fowlers game has grown since last year I think the same can be said for Lovejoy. I remember 1 play in Chicago where Lovejoy was defending a player on the outside and made a fake and cut inside the Chicago player stripping him of the puck, a great defensive play. I also don't think the pair has been bad against all elite level teams, I think they handled Pit pretty well, I think they did fine against SJ. I am sure if we looked more into some of those games that the Fowler-Lovejoy pairing wasn't our weakest link in many of them.

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01-20-2014, 03:20 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
I don`t think Bob should do that, and i`m sure he won`t. Losing Vatanen might be a mistake in longterm, especially if we trade for rental, like Girardi, because of the RH thing.
Agreed

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01-20-2014, 03:22 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
I don`t think Bob should do that, and i`m sure he won`t. Losing Vatanen might be a mistake in longterm, especially if we trade for rental, like Girardi, because of the RH thing.
I think we have to many assets for Vatanen to be considered a must include asset. All things considered he is still an undersized offensive defensemen with under rated defensive game. A good player but still with flaws. You should be able to sell another asset in his place.

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01-20-2014, 03:28 AM
  #86
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We sure have a lot of bullets...2 first rounders 2 second rounders plus our great prospects

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01-20-2014, 08:47 AM
  #87
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I wouldn't mind improving on Lovejoy. Partially because it never hurts to upgrade. But mostly because I always worry he'll turn into a pumpkin. It is seeming less and less likely since it's been parts of two seasons now.

But ducksnation, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. His icings are a flaw, yes. And that's what prevents him from being elite. But I don't think that pairing has been inadequate or that he is severely holding us back.

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01-20-2014, 09:00 AM
  #88
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Top pairings GA On/60 (ES):
Ducks (Fowler+Lovejoy): 1.76
Wild (Suter+Brodin): 1.70
Kings (Doughty+Muzzin): 1.9
Blues (Pietrangelo+JayBo): 2.16
Hawks (Seabrook+Keith): 2.3
Preds (Weber+Josi): 2.76
Sharks (Vlasic+Bran): 1.94

Seems to me Fowler-Lovejoy pairing is working fine.

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01-20-2014, 09:43 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Lord Flashheart View Post
Top pairings GA On/60 (ES):
Ducks (Fowler+Lovejoy): 1.76
Wild (Suter+Brodin): 1.70
Kings (Doughty+Muzzin): 1.9
Blues (Pietrangelo+JayBo): 2.16
Hawks (Seabrook+Keith): 2.3
Preds (Weber+Josi): 2.76
Sharks (Vlasic+Bran): 1.94

Seems to me Fowler-Lovejoy pairing is working fine.
He ignored it last time, so I imagine this will go unnoticed too.

Again, one of the league's most effective top lines. You can post videos of individual mistakes all day, doesn't change that.

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01-20-2014, 10:49 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Flashheart View Post
Top pairings GA On/60 (ES):
Ducks (Fowler+Lovejoy): 1.76
Wild (Suter+Brodin): 1.70
Kings (Doughty+Muzzin): 1.9
Blues (Pietrangelo+JayBo): 2.16
Hawks (Seabrook+Keith): 2.3
Preds (Weber+Josi): 2.76
Sharks (Vlasic+Bran): 1.94

Seems to me Fowler-Lovejoy pairing is working fine.
That's pretty ****ing impressive. Especially seeing the names of the other guys. Where did you get the info?

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01-20-2014, 11:34 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Lord Flashheart View Post
Top pairings GA On/60 (ES):
Ducks (Fowler+Lovejoy): 1.76
Wild (Suter+Brodin): 1.70
Kings (Doughty+Muzzin): 1.9
Blues (Pietrangelo+JayBo): 2.16
Hawks (Seabrook+Keith): 2.3
Preds (Weber+Josi): 2.76
Sharks (Vlasic+Bran): 1.94

Seems to me Fowler-Lovejoy pairing is working fine.
You're failing to take into account that Ducks Nation doesn't think the regular season means anything.

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01-20-2014, 11:45 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
You're failing to take into account that Ducks Nation doesn't think the regular season means anything.
A first-pairing defender wouldn't get semi exposed against elite teams, you see. Never mind that all but the most elite top pairing defenders have at least one weakness, and never mind that elite teams (being elite, you know) might occasionally make a defense pairing look bad.

Ignore that Lovejoy (mistakes and all) has been a dominant five on five presence, too, and that he and Fowler were our best pair in the last playoffs.

What if he ices the puck in the playoffs? Can you imagine what would happen if a defenseman iced the puck in the playoffs? Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria. And we have video evidence of Lovejoy icing pucks, so we know it's possible. The thought of that justifies screwing up the chemistry of every defense pairing we have.

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01-20-2014, 11:46 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
I wouldn't mind improving on Lovejoy. Partially because it never hurts to upgrade. But mostly because I always worry he'll turn into a pumpkin. It is seeming less and less likely since it's been parts of two seasons now.

But ducksnation, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. His icings are a flaw, yes. And that's what prevents him from being elite. But I don't think that pairing has been inadequate or that he is severely holding us back.
I can't believe we're talking about his icings and not his ridiculous steal of a contract with the way he's playing right now

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01-20-2014, 11:48 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
I can't believe we're talking about his icings and not his ridiculous steal of a contract with the way he's playing right now
But what if he ices the puck in the playoffs?!

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01-20-2014, 12:04 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by mighty all the way View Post
That's pretty ****ing impressive. Especially seeing the names of the other guys. Where did you get the info?
Just used average data from this post. It's not entirely scientific, but it's close enough.

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01-20-2014, 12:12 PM
  #96
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I think there's important distinction to make on this issue. Cam Fowler is clearly our top d-man so by virtue the pair of him and Lovejoy is our top pair. By viewing this pair as such many are looking at Lovejoy as unworthy of being a "top pairng" or "#2" d-man. That doesn't matter. What matters is his chemistry with Fowler. When we acquired Beauch he was barely an NHL player but he was paired with Scotty and they clicked and Frankie had an amazing run as Scotty's partner. Did that suddenly make Beauch a #2 d-man? No. He was simply Scotty's partner and was great in that position. Lovejoy is in a very similar situation though Cam is not on Scotty's level. Lovejoy isn't perfect but he's best on the other side of Fowler. That pairing is terrific and shouldn't be altered. Murray may very well go out and get a Dan Girardi or some other right-handed shooting d-man but whomever that is, he won't be paired up with Fowler. He'll either be paired with Frankie who will move back to the left side with Lindholm moving the right with Allen or he'll replace Sami Vatanen with Allen. It really makes no sense breaking up our best defensive pair.

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01-20-2014, 12:14 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
I can't believe we're talking about his icings and not his ridiculous steal of a contract with the way he's playing right now
Yeah good point. Value is hugely important in a cap league.

I always said a big part of our Cup win in 2007 was that we had Beauchemin at ~1.6 million and O'Donnell at ~1.2 million. (And Pahlsson at whatever he was making.) Because those guys played such huge minutes at such a low price. Our defensive pairs, while having two 6-7 million dollar superstars, still only cost ~4 million each when averaged among the 4 players.

So yes, value like we have with Lovejoy is really important.

edit: partial ninja'd by joeman. Curse you!

edit2:
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Originally Posted by Lord Flashheart View Post
Just used average data from this post. It's not entirely scientific, but it's close enough.
It's not entirely scientific, but is it advanced? Because that's all that matters.

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01-20-2014, 12:20 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
Yeah good point. Value is hugely important in a cap league.

I always said a big part of our Cup win in 2007 was that we had Beauchemin at ~1.6 million and O'Donnell at ~1.2 million. (And Pahlsson at whatever he was making.) Because those guys played such huge minutes at such a low price. Our defensive pairs, while having two 6-7 million dollar superstars, still only cost ~4 million each when averaged among the 4 players.

So yes, value like we have with Lovejoy is really important.

edit: partial ninja'd by joeman. Curse you!

edit2:

It's not entirely scientific, but is it advanced? Because that's all that matters.
It's not advanced until it claims to quantify an intangible quality like luck or determination. Maybe it's an indicator of stick-to-it-iveness, or gumption? If so, advanced.

And clearly Fowler-Lovejoy are due for regression, if so. We haven't seen a sustained level of gumption that high since Eddie Shore, and that's only because his grandpappy was so mean.

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01-20-2014, 12:23 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Flashheart View Post
Top pairings GA On/60 (ES):
Ducks (Fowler+Lovejoy): 1.76
Wild (Suter+Brodin): 1.70
Kings (Doughty+Muzzin): 1.9
Blues (Pietrangelo+JayBo): 2.16
Hawks (Seabrook+Keith): 2.3
Preds (Weber+Josi): 2.76
Sharks (Vlasic+Bran): 1.94

Seems to me Fowler-Lovejoy pairing is working fine.
Dang. That`s sweet

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01-20-2014, 12:37 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Flashheart View Post
Top pairings GA On/60 (ES):
Ducks (Fowler+Lovejoy): 1.76
Wild (Suter+Brodin): 1.70
Kings (Doughty+Muzzin): 1.9
Blues (Pietrangelo+JayBo): 2.16
Hawks (Seabrook+Keith): 2.3
Preds (Weber+Josi): 2.76
Sharks (Vlasic+Bran): 1.94

Seems to me Fowler-Lovejoy pairing is working fine.
Whats that stat look like when we are playing elite teams or teams we will have to play in the games that matter aka the playoffs. And it's funny how skippy long stocking keeps saying playoffs it wont happen when we had the same pairing last year and I posted a video of them of a icing that lost us game 6 and maybe the series

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