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01-20-2014, 01:39 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
I think there's important distinction to make on this issue. Cam Fowler is clearly our top d-man so by virtue the pair of him and Lovejoy is our top pair. By viewing this pair as such many are looking at Lovejoy as unworthy of being a "top pairng" or "#2" d-man. That doesn't matter. What matters is his chemistry with Fowler. When we acquired Beauch he was barely an NHL player but he was paired with Scotty and they clicked and Frankie had an amazing run as Scotty's partner. Did that suddenly make Beauch a #2 d-man? No. He was simply Scotty's partner and was great in that position. Lovejoy is in a very similar situation though Cam is not on Scotty's level. Lovejoy isn't perfect but he's best on the other side of Fowler. That pairing is terrific and shouldn't be altered. Murray may very well go out and get a Dan Girardi or some other right-handed shooting d-man but whomever that is, he won't be paired up with Fowler. He'll either be paired with Frankie who will move back to the left side with Lindholm moving the right with Allen or he'll replace Sami Vatanen with Allen. It really makes no sense breaking up our best defensive pair.
You explained it yourself Lovejoy is playing over his head and playing with cam Fowler a 22 year old still learning.

Beauchemin was playing with one of the best defensemen to ever live... In his prime... With a super hot goalie and one of the best teams off all time.

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01-20-2014, 01:42 PM
  #102
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Whats that stat look like when we are playing elite teams or teams we will have to play in the games that matter aka the playoffs. And it's funny how skippy long stocking keeps saying playoffs it wont happen when we had the same pairing last year and I posted a video of them of a icing that lost us game 6 and maybe the series
Yep, that's why we lost that series. That icing. It even retroactively lost us 2 games that we had already played! Icings in the playoffs, man. Scary.

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01-20-2014, 01:46 PM
  #103
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Technically it is that icing led to a goal off the face off. Mod


Last edited by Ducks DVM: 01-20-2014 at 02:08 PM.
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01-20-2014, 01:47 PM
  #104
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I think any team serious about winning it all will look in to upgrades, defense is obviously huge in the playoffs and just in general. I've been amazed by how well Lovejoy has played and think he deserves to keep playing his minutes. I don't think it's a bad thing at all if Murray decides to make a move for a player who he thinks is upgrade and who he thinks can find chemistry with Cam. That can be anywhere from Girardi to somebody under the radar. Small things can win/lose you a game, which is big a playoff series where one game means a lot. Not saying Lovejoy will screw up I have a lot of confidence in him despite some annoying icings. If Murray can make a move to help us for the right price then by all means he should do so. I think we're all pretty serious about winning.

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01-20-2014, 01:49 PM
  #105
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The icings I don't really care about....its the unnecessary ones which he usually has 3 options to get out whether its behind the net, a cutting forward or even to skate it out himself...look at that the videos watch them over and over, it makes no sense theres so many options yet he just ices it.

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01-20-2014, 01:51 PM
  #106
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The icings I don't really care about....its the unnecessary ones which he usually has 3 options to get out whether its behind the net, a cutting forward or even to skate it out himself...look at that the videos watch them over and over, it makes no sense theres so many options yet he just ices it.
That's what I was referring to by annoying icings. If his only option is to ice it I don't really care though it's fun to make drinking game jokes even when it wasn't a horrible icing.

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01-20-2014, 01:53 PM
  #107
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The one I posted from game 6 is almost funny, he can literally skate it out, pass behind to fowler, pass to Cogs cutting or to Koivu in the middle with literally no one around him

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01-20-2014, 01:56 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Ducks Nation View Post
Technically it is that icing led to a goal off the face off.Mod
Mod

Fowler-Lovejoy was probably reason #12 on the list of reasons why we lost that series. They were probably the best news to come out of that series, actually. Or maybe second-best, after the apparent emergence of Etem/Palmieri/Bonino. So the more you bang that drum, the more you're going to have to backtrack (like you did, DaDucks would be proud), because it's a stupid argument.


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01-20-2014, 02:05 PM
  #109
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Icing the puck = whatever

Icing the puck when you have forwards skating, 20 feet of open ice to skate, your defensive partner behind the net open, your center in the middle of the ice with no one around him = bad

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01-20-2014, 02:10 PM
  #110
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01-20-2014, 02:13 PM
  #111
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I'm not backpedaling come watch my games I'll give you 50 bucks everytime I ice to puck when I have 3 wide open options
From cost us the series to cost us a goal is backpedaling, kid. It's also kind of sad that you need to pay people to watch you play.

For the third time from me, probably the 20th time you've heard it, every defenseman makes mistakes. Posting videos of one defensemen's mistakes is completely irrelevant. And to try and make it painfully clear for you, all mistakes are magnified in the playoffs. We replace Lovejoy, that guy is going to make mistakes, too. Take away the partner that Cam's had for over year now, and you're probably looking at an even higher likelihood of mistakes from that pairing. That is a stupid thing to do to one of the league's best pairings, a pairing that is the best pairing on the league's best team.

You've focused on Lovejoy because you're a video game fan with a hard on for a fantasy upgrade.

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01-20-2014, 02:14 PM
  #112
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No I don't care about stats at all. I care about a top pairing defensemen being able to read a basic play and make a basic outlet pass

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01-20-2014, 02:15 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Ducks Nation View Post
Whats that stat look like when we are playing elite teams or teams we will have to play in the games that matter aka the playoffs. And it's funny how skippy long stocking keeps saying playoffs it wont happen when we had the same pairing last year and I posted a video of them of a icing that lost us game 6 and maybe the series
I did this manually.

Lovejoy's GA On at ES vs. Kings, Sharks, Blues, Hawks, Bruins and Pens (11 games): 1.48.

His entire season avg: 1.52
Against so called elite: 1.48


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01-20-2014, 02:17 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Ducks Nation View Post
No I don't care about stats at all. I care about a top pairing defensemen being able to read a basic play and make a basic outlet pass
Luckily, he does this with about 99% regularity. Glad we were able to allay (that means favorably answer) your concerns.

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Originally Posted by Lord Flashheart View Post
I did this manually.

Lovejoy's GA On at ES vs. Kings, Sharks, Blues, Hawks, Bruins and Pens (11 games): 1.48.

His entire season avg: 1.52
Against so called elite: 1.48

So "semi exposed" means plays a bit better. Got it.

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01-20-2014, 02:17 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Lord Flashheart View Post
I did this manually.

Lovejoy's GA On at ES vs. Kings, Sharks, Blues, Hawks, Bruins and Pens (11 games): 1.48.

His entire season avg: 1.52
Against so called elite: 1.48

Dang that surprisingly good.

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01-20-2014, 02:18 PM
  #116
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Still don't trust him in a 7 game series. Would rather have him on 2nd pairing or even 3rd if BM can make a bold move and get someone

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01-20-2014, 02:22 PM
  #117
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Still don't trust him in a 7 game series. Would rather have him on 2nd pairing or even 3rd if BM can make a bold move and get someone
You should have just started here. Inventing reasons to worry about a player is always a losing proposition. Having a gut feeling of not trusting a player is at least a valid position.

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01-20-2014, 02:23 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Lord Flashheart View Post
I did this manually.

Lovejoy's GA On at ES vs. Kings, Sharks, Blues, Hawks, Bruins and Pens (11 games): 1.48.

His entire season avg: 1.52
Against so called elite: 1.48

When I look at the game log against those teams he is - 1 in all those games except for 2 of them and 0 in 2

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01-20-2014, 02:26 PM
  #119
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You know an argument for why his GA avg is pretty darn good could be BECAUSE he ices it.
How many times have we seen defenseman opting for the more risky play up the middle or ending up making a suicide pass to a forward in hopes of a quick transition.
Lovejoy has rarely ever made an awful turnover because he tried to make a risky play that results in the back of the net.
When he ices even if it was a fairly easy out, all that means is everyone gets to reset in the defensive zone so that it's a controlled situation instead of people scrambling after a turnover. Everyone including the goalie gets a mental reset and that's not a bad thing.

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01-20-2014, 02:26 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Ducks Nation View Post
When I look at the game log against those teams he is - 1 in all those games except for 2 of them and 0 in 2
And?

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01-20-2014, 02:26 PM
  #121
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I dont think lovejoy will make or break a series. He can do the same icings on any pairing. Amd the consequence of icing is a faceoff and linechange from opposition... so his pairing really doesnt matter except for a few minutes of icetime.

Its really a question of, "but if we had someone better". If we lose a playoff series, could we have won it with our dmen all shifted down roles because we got a top notch guy.

personally, i trust the lovejoy fowler combo. I dont trust a lovejoy vatanen or lovejoy fistric combo... he seems to work with fowler and fowler with him.

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01-20-2014, 02:27 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Ducks Nation View Post
When I look at the game log against those teams he is - 1 in all those games except for 2 of them and 0 in 2
That doesn't take away from the numbers that were just posted.
How many of those goals were his fault or directly due to an icing which has been your point.
What were Fowler's numbers in those games or our checking lines numbers.

Edit: I just took a look at the numbers in those games and he's a combined +3 in games against those teams. So I don't see why you phrased it so negatively. Oh wait I do, because you have a serious irrational dislike for him and his icings


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01-20-2014, 02:28 PM
  #123
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Atleast BB is smart enough to rarely play him on the PK. Imagine those outlet passes

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01-20-2014, 02:29 PM
  #124
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Atleast BB is smart enough to rarely play him on the PK. Imagine those outlet passes
...yeah, because those icings really kill you when you're shorthanded

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01-20-2014, 02:30 PM
  #125
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...yeah, because those icings really kill you when you're shorthanded
How many times are you going to harp about icings? He is not a good passer. Period.

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