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Old
01-31-2014, 10:25 AM
  #151
24Cups
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Originally Posted by jaffy27 View Post
It's one thing to make the NHL, then it's another to succeed in it. Think of it this way..do you feel better going out to a bar with a few of your 5'10 buddies who way 150, or do you feel a little better when you add a few of your 6'4 225LBS pals by your side...think about that one for a few minutes
Huh Not sure what bars you go to or for what reason. Maybe just a poor analogy but my preferred bar pal companions come in at 5'3"-5'4", about 120. They don't get messed with.

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01-31-2014, 10:48 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by jaffy27 View Post
It's one thing to make the NHL, then it's another to succeed in it. Think of it this way..do you feel better going out to a bar with a few of your 5'10 buddies who way 150, or do you feel a little better when you add a few of your 6'4 225LBS pals by your side...think about that one for a few minutes

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01-31-2014, 11:51 AM
  #153
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What's so complicated? Everytime MT plays him vs top lines we get burned. Be careful when you play him and he can fill the role.

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01-31-2014, 11:54 AM
  #154
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What's so complicated? Everytime MT plays him vs top lines we get burned. Be careful when you play him and he can fill the role.
I like the way he is used and play in the last couple of games. He doesn't have to drop them every game. He can concentrate on the defensive side of his game. He is surely a deterrant for anypne who would want to rough up against the smaller Habs.

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01-31-2014, 12:18 PM
  #155
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I like when he stands in front of the net on occasion... he's pretty tough to move and see over.

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01-31-2014, 12:21 PM
  #156
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I like when he stands in front of the net on occasion... he's pretty tough to move and see over.
LOL, I have never seen him moved and it is impossible to see over him.

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01-31-2014, 12:23 PM
  #157
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Pssst....Leafs and Bruins are ahead of the HABS....this is NHL, not the Olympics, it's an 8 month grind, not a 2week sprint, you'll need different tools in the tool box if you wanna win a Stanley Cup
Well yeah, the Habs have been playing horribly since November because we're overrating grit and dump-ins.

You don't need hockey players who can't play hockey in the toolbox. The Bruins don't dress goons who can't play a regular shift. The Leafs regularly dress two or 3. Why should we be trying to keep up with the Leafs in goon count?

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01-31-2014, 12:31 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
What's so complicated? Everytime MT plays him vs top lines we get burned. Be careful when you play him and he can fill the role.
His role is not needed, and MT can't always get the line matchups he wants so we'll get burned more often than if we played a guy who can actually play hockey.

What's so complicated about only getting players who know how to play hockey?

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01-31-2014, 12:41 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
What's so complicated? Everytime MT plays him vs top lines we get burned. Be careful when you play him and he can fill the role.
What's so complicated about figuring out that the only role he can fill is detrimental to the team's success? That simple.

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01-31-2014, 12:56 PM
  #160
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Well yeah, the Habs have been playing horribly since November because we're overrating grit and dump-ins.

You don't need hockey players who can't play hockey in the toolbox. The Bruins don't dress goons who can't play a regular shift. The Leafs regularly dress two or 3. Why should we be trying to keep up with the Leafs in goon count?
The Habs have played horribly since November because they have not grinded enough, too many dumps and poor retrival or puck pressure.

The Habs won't beat anybody soely on puck control, anybody that thinks that is dillusional. Pierre Lebrun touched on that yesterday and made some excellent points. He said Therrien is way smarter than fans give him credit for, stuff in the media is to push the players buttons as when the message gets stale in the room. He wants the players not to foget the grinding and the "little things" which were there against Bostron and Chicago but missing in a lot of other January games. Defensive coverage, being hard on the puck, being persistant in puck pressure, intelligent chips and retrivals.

The habs look like a top 5 team when the goaltending, skill and details are there, but if one is missing it's a struggle but they can still win...in some games recently 2/3 were missing and they got plastered. If the offense dries up for a bit you need your goalie but also the 18 skaters to do all the little things to play well defensively as well as create 5 on 5 offense and turnovers.

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01-31-2014, 01:01 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
His role is not needed, and MT can't always get the line matchups he wants so we'll get burned more often than if we played a guy who can actually play hockey.

What's so complicated about only getting players who know how to play hockey?
His role is needed, and I'm sure his teammates really like having him out there in Toronto, Boston, Ottawa etc

If guys like that had no value there would not be 40-50 of them in the NHL...

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01-31-2014, 01:14 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
His role is needed, and I'm sure his teammates really like having him out there in Toronto, Boston, Ottawa etc

If guys like that had no value there would not be 40-50 of them in the NHL...
If his role was needed how did we survive last season without a goon? Why does Scotty Bowman consider guys like him a handicap?

I seriously doubt there are 40-50 guys like him in the NHL.

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01-31-2014, 01:18 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
If his role was needed how did we survive last season without a goon? Why does Scotty Bowman consider guys like him a handicap?

I seriously doubt there are 40-50 guys like him in the NHL.
The goal is to thrive not just to survive.

Scotty Bowman had enforcers on his teams. I'm sure he did with the Habs.

Every team has one and some have two like Calgary Edmonton Toronto and Ottawa.

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01-31-2014, 01:19 PM
  #164
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Boston played scared last night. I love the idea of playing Douglas Murray, George Parros last night. Guys like Lucic didn't dare to touch Budaj or any other players. Marchand was asleep.

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01-31-2014, 01:34 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
The goal is to thrive not just to survive.

Scotty Bowman had enforcers on his teams. I'm sure he did with the Habs.

Every team has one and some have two like Calgary Edmonton Toronto and Ottawa.
Who does Detroit have? Who does Carolina have? I could go on. Hell even Boston doesn't have a guy whose there just for fighting since Thornton can actually play hockey.

So without a goon we finish 1st in the division, but you think that's just trying to survive. This year with a goon we are in a wild card spot and have played .500 hockey for most of the season yet somehow Parros is causing us to thrive.

The league has changed dramatically from Bowman's days with the Habs, the reason he was so good was because he was able to adapt with it. In today's game he doesn't think a goon helps.

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01-31-2014, 01:44 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Who does Detroit have? Who does Carolina have? I could go on. Hell even Boston doesn't have a guy whose there just for fighting since Thornton can actually play hockey.

So without a goon we finish 1st in the division, but you think that's just trying to survive. This year with a goon we are in a wild card spot and have played .500 hockey for most of the season yet somehow Parros is causing us to thrive.

The league has changed dramatically from Bowman's days with the Habs, the reason he was so good was because he was able to adapt with it. In today's game he doesn't think a goon helps.
Detroit and Carolina don't have one...but neither are playoff teams either. If it's good enough for the best teams in the NHL, I'd rather copy them than non playoff teams.

The fact that Thornton can play a bit is nice, but he is still that type of player. I'm sure they could replace him with more skill if he wasn't a fighter, it's his main skill.

Last year we had Prust and Moen and Bergevin still tried to add Sestito.

Obviously LA SJ Anaheim Boston Pittsburgh etc disagree with Scotty.

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01-31-2014, 02:06 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Detroit and Carolina don't have one...but neither are playoff teams either. If it's good enough for the best teams in the NHL, I'd rather copy them than non playoff teams.

The fact that Thornton can play a bit is nice, but he is still that type of player. I'm sure they could replace him with more skill if he wasn't a fighter, it's his main skill.

Last year we had Prust and Moen and Bergevin still tried to add Sestito.

Obviously LA SJ Anaheim Boston Pittsburgh etc disagree with Scotty.
No one is against players who can play hockey and also fight like Prust/Moen/Thornthon. Because they can actually play hockey. The ability to play hockey isn't just a nice to have it's the reason to have them. It's when the player can only fight and not do anything else that it's a problem.

By the way what goon did Pittsburgh use when they won the cup?

EDIT: Oh and I brought up Detroit and Carolina to dispute your claim that every team has one and some teams have 2 so there must be 40-50 goons out there. So whether they are in the playoffs doesn't matter.

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01-31-2014, 03:13 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
No one is against players who can play hockey and also fight like Prust/Moen/Thornthon. Because they can actually play hockey. The ability to play hockey isn't just a nice to have it's the reason to have them. It's when the player can only fight and not do anything else that it's a problem.

By the way what goon did Pittsburgh use when they won the cup?

EDIT: Oh and I brought up Detroit and Carolina to dispute your claim that every team has one and some teams have 2 so there must be 40-50 goons out there. So whether they are in the playoffs doesn't matter.
Eric Godard.

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01-31-2014, 03:16 PM
  #169
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Eric Godard.
0 playoff games played with the penguins.

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01-31-2014, 03:18 PM
  #170
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0 playoff games played with the penguins.
Is anyone advocating for goons to play a regular turn in the playoffs ?

They carried Godard all year long to do the dirty work. That is what he wanted to know : what goon did Pittsburgh use when they won the cup.

I'm just obliging him, here.

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01-31-2014, 03:23 PM
  #171
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0 playoff games played with the penguins.
You are taking an absolutist approach.

Last season, Brandon Bollig.........0 goals and 0 assists played in 5 playoff games, 2 against the Bruins.

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01-31-2014, 07:11 PM
  #172
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You guys wonder why Boston did not goon it up toward the end last night?

Parros and. Murray were out there. Boston had no smurf to abuse with those two lurking.

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01-31-2014, 09:13 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
His role is not needed, and MT can't always get the line matchups he wants so we'll get burned more often than if we played a guy who can actually play hockey.

What's so complicated about only getting players who know how to play hockey?
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
What's so complicated about figuring out that the only role he can fill is detrimental to the team's success? That simple.
I never said I wouldn't put a better player there. Just saying as an enforcer he's not unlike others and would fill the heavyweight role better if they controlled his ice time and matchups.

Never said I want an enforcer though.

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02-01-2014, 05:08 AM
  #174
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Murray and Parros are starting to look better. Right now I have no problem with either of them.

If both are willing to take another year at the same price, I'd do it. As long as they keep playing well and Murray understands he might be a 7th D rotating with Tinordi and Pateryn.

I'm all about bringing in our prospects as slowly as possible especially the D men.

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02-01-2014, 05:23 AM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
The Habs have played horribly since November because they have not grinded enough, too many dumps and poor retrival or puck pressure.

The Habs won't beat anybody soely on puck control, anybody that thinks that is dillusional. Pierre Lebrun touched on that yesterday and made some excellent points. He said Therrien is way smarter than fans give him credit for, stuff in the media is to push the players buttons as when the message gets stale in the room. He wants the players not to foget the grinding and the "little things" which were there against Bostron and Chicago but missing in a lot of other January games. Defensive coverage, being hard on the puck, being persistant in puck pressure, intelligent chips and retrivals.

The habs look like a top 5 team when the goaltending, skill and details are there, but if one is missing it's a struggle but they can still win...in some games recently 2/3 were missing and they got plastered. If the offense dries up for a bit you need your goalie but also the 18 skaters to do all the little things to play well defensively as well as create 5 on 5 offense and turnovers.
huh... you expect guys like Gallagher, Briere, DD, Gionta, Plekanec to grind more ?

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